Jackson Farmers Market

[Medcnman]

I apologize. You are all correct. None of us are truly safe. In my opinion, i wouldnt think there would be any problems with the information that I have obtained. We are all at risk of interpretation. I, personally, would feel safe attending the market. Medcnman.

[Croppled1]

Well said...I agree.

 

The problem is single caregivers can't provide for patients like myself . I have to grow my own or I can't afford to be on the program but at the same time I need a caregiver who can make potent med ables but I can't spend enough to justify taking someones slot or them wanting to help . The variety at the market is also a plus not everyone can make everything well . There is a real need . Once we saw people being abused anyways without regard to intent under the act it seems the only way to fight injustice is to keep the front line as far infront of the caregivers and patients in their homes and doing what your saying is safe . I dont' recommend it but am proud to see people supplying the markets because it is activity that should be out in the open and yes we all know everyone that goes in and out of there is watched . Thats the whole point to be safe . We trust common sense will prevail in the end . We are glad to have everyone back and thus all veiws represented . Nobody should be living in fear of arrest for activity that we all know has to be legal for medical cannabis to exist in reality . Right now they can arrest pretty much who ever they want to violate the rules are non practical in working application . Weight limits counting inert ingrediants are ridiculous for cannabis patients and problematic at best at grow locations . They are fine for transportation for example . God Bless .

[bobandtorey]

They also got their charges dropped for that very reason.

 

i understand and i agree but as you know it's being appealed

[bobandtorey]

Maybe you can explain to us how you arrive at the conclusion that the market is in full complaince with state laws. Explain to us your theory on how transactions between caregivers and patients whom are UNconnected through the registry are safe under the current law.

 

Also explain what you mean by "safe access." Are you taking the position that no one can be arrested there and therefore they are safe or are you taking the position that you could be arrested but after going to court you would not be prosecuted?

 

The law protects you from arrest when engaging in transactions between connected cg and pt. So clear this up for everyone.

 

i agree

[Croppled1]

Is anyone against the Farmers Markets in principle . I am not discussing the legality but whether they are desired and we all agree it would be important to try to convince the Legislature to consider them with or without a dispensary bill to provide what legal medical cannabis requires , legal , sponsored safe access so sick patients don't have to interview caregivers in their homes alone , unprotected and settle for what only one person can provide and be without if they have a issue . No single source can ever be safe for a non interupted supply .

[Hayduke]

They also got their charges dropped for that very reason.

 

and it is under appeal going where? the COA, where we are now 0-14

 

glad they have very good attorneys. hopefully they will continue to perform miracles.... Neil Rockind and Tom Loeb... Paul Tylenda... right on bros

[CaveatLector]

Is anyone against the Farmers Markets in principle . I am not discussing the legality but whether they are desired and we all agree it would be important to try to convince the Legislature to consider them with or without a dispensary bill to provide what legal medical cannabis requires , legal , sponsored safe access so sick patients don't have to interview caregivers in their homes alone , unprotected and settle for what only one person can provide and be without if they have a issue . No single source can ever be safe for a non interupted supply .

No. I am for a farmer's market in principle.

 

We don't need the legislature to consider a farmer's market model. They would just need to make it clear that any cg can transfer to any carded pt and be compensated for their time, costs, etc.

[bobandtorey]

we and People v Kolanek are the only one's so far that came out with a some-what good ruling

imo

[Croppled1]

we and People v Kolanek are the only one's so far that came out with a some-what good ruling

imo

 

 

Have you won your case or still waiting for the Supreme Court to hear it ?

[ozzrokk]

Reality is none of us are safe from doing anything involved with Medical Cannabis. Card or not things could work for you or against you. Depends on who is on the other end and whether or not they respect or honor the law. You are much better or should I say have a much better chance with a card but to some the card means nothing.

[Timmahh]

Only Change I would support would be calling a Self Growing Patient a Authorized SELF CAREGIVER/Patient. This would then allow a Pt to work directly with other Patients then, with out issues. ahh if in a perfect world.

[CaveatLector]

Guess it's a good thing you don't have to go to the market. As far as me going, I really don't care if you like it or not. Your attempts to scare people away are not as effective as you hoped I would say.

 

I never said I don't like it so I suggest you improve your reading comprehesion skills. Furthermore. I am not trying to "scare" anyone away. Lastly, your assumptions of what I "hoped" are flat wrong. If you took more time to read AND comprehend then you would understand that my concern is for uninformed individuals. For the people that come here and see a mod telling them that the market is "legally compliant" and that it is "safe access." Neither of those 2 assertions can be claimed as being 100% true. So my concern is for people to understand the risk. If they understand the risk and are willing to take them then fine. But making claims that you cannot support with law makes people assume a risk that they maybe didn't intend to assume.

 

I would compare this to dispensaries. I argued on here months, if not years, ago about dispensaries. I argued the validity of the claim that dispenaries were legal. Sure, you can do some dance in the law that gets you to a place where p2p transfers can be found to maybe be legal. But, approaching the issue as a court would/could can lead you to believe that dispensaries are illegal. I didn't argue that they were illegal only that they were arguably illegal and that people should therefore use caution. Guess what happened with dispensaries...

 

So, to sum it up, we don't know how the courts will interpret the law in regard to the legality of the farmer's markets. That being the case it is best to advise people to proceed with caution and on an informed basis. Understand the risks. Decide how much risk you are willing to bear. Then take that risk. Your "throw caution to the wind" approach may work for you but my concern is for those for whom it will not work. I care about people, you care about yourself.

[bobandtorey]

I never said I don't like it so I suggest you improve your reading comprehesion skills. Furthermore. I am not trying to "scare" anyone away. Lastly, your assumptions of what I "hoped" are flat wrong. If you took more time to read AND comprehend then you would understand that my concern is for uninformed individuals. For the people that come here and see a mod telling them that the market is "legally compliant" and that it is "safe access." Neither of those 2 assertions can be claimed as being 100% true. So my concern is for people to understand the risk. If they understand the risk and are willing to take them then fine. But making claims that you cannot support with law makes people assume a risk that they maybe didn't intend to assume.

 

I would compare this to dispensaries. I argued on here months, if not years, ago about dispensaries. I argued the validity of the claim that dispenaries were legal. Sure, you can do some dance in the law that gets you to a place where p2p transfers can be found to maybe be legal. But, approaching the issue as a court would/could can lead you to believe that dispensaries are illegal. I didn't argue that they were illegal only that they were arguably illegal and that people should therefore use caution. Guess what happened with dispensaries...

 

So, to sum it up, we don't know how the courts will interpret the law in regard to the legality of the farmer's markets. That being the case it is best to advise people to proceed with caution and on an informed basis. Understand the risks. Decide how much risk you are willing to bear. Then take that risk. Your "throw caution to the wind" approach may work for you but my concern is for those for whom it will not work. I care about people, you care about yourself.

 

i would say that i do agree with your statement and i also see that they may or may not be legal i do no they are not legal in Oakland County the rest of the state will have to wait and see

[Hempcheff]

Posted Today, 02:21 PM

 

CaveatLector, on 14 April 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

 

Maybe you can explain to us how you arrive at the conclusion that the market is in full compliance with state laws. Explain to us your theory on how transactions between caregivers and patients whom are UNconnected through the registry are safe under the current law.

 

Also explain what you mean by "safe access." Are you taking the position that no one can be arrested there and therefore they are safe or are you taking the position that you could be arrested but after going to court you would not be prosecuted?

 

The law protects you from arrest when engaging in transactions between connected cg and pt. So clear this up for everyone.

 

 

If there is a primary caregiver there must be a secondary ? The primary connected designation only applies to plant counts and medical use is allowed as defined between participants . The Mt Pleasant Ruling did not say PTP was illegal only it could not be conducted for remuneration . CTP CTC is now being conducted absent a ruling on it with remuneration for expenses which is legal . Personally I think anyone that includes a labor component will be found guilty of trying to profit and it is sad people have to wait for the courts to feel safe . They announced the Kalamazoo raid was to be a test case . Then they say they can't offer up a medical cannabis defense . Some people believe they should resist and offer these services in spite of the risks and patients have need but to directily answer you many people believe the broad definition of the Act under medical use that is protected allows for it and as I said the primary designation of connection only is intended to limit plant counts not protections involving " medical use " . People should consider their own situations , others layman intepretations could be wrong , prosecutors can feel different and the courts have the final say before acting . ===============================================================================================================================================================================

 

Initiated Law 1 of 2008

"Permit registered and unregistered patients and primary caregivers to assert medical reasons for using marijuana as a defense to any prosecution involving marijuana."

Section 333.26424

(e) A registered primary caregiver may receive compensation for costs associated with assisting a registered qualifying patient in the medical use of marihuana. Any such compensation shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances.

also

(i) A person shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, solely for being in the presence or vicinity of the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, or for assisting a registered qualifying patient with using or administering marihuana.

[Hempcheff]

Besides, 4e makes no mention of any "connection" direct or otherwise in regards to limiting whom may conduct the transaction

[CaveatLector]

Besides, 4e makes no mention of any "connection" direct or otherwise in regards to limiting whom may conduct the transaction

 

 

4e deals with compensation not transfer. That section is specific to compensation. You are making the leap that because it deals with compensation then it necessarily means one can assist "a," meaning ANY, patient with a TRANSER. That's an incorrect interpretation of that section.

 

Referencing sub i is useless in this context. "Using" does NOT equal "medical use." That section is very clearly designed to keep people safe who are helping someone use the drug, not transfer the drug. Think more along the lines of someone helping prepare the vaporizer or roll the joint or make the brownies.

[mizerman]

and it is under appeal going where? the COA, where we are now 0-14

 

glad they have very good attorneys. hopefully they will continue to perform miracles.... Neil Rockind and Tom Loeb... Paul Tylenda... right on bros

 

Is the COA a republican majority?

[CaveatLector]

Is the COA a republican majority?

The COA has close to 30 judges. I don't know the political leanings of all.

[mendonesian]

Posted Today, 02:21 PM

 

CaveatLector, on 14 April 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

 

Maybe you can explain to us how you arrive at the conclusion that the market is in full compliance with state laws. Explain to us your theory on how transactions between caregivers and patients whom are UNconnected through the registry are safe under the current law.

 

Also explain what you mean by "safe access." Are you taking the position that no one can be arrested there and therefore they are safe or are you taking the position that you could be arrested but after going to court you would not be prosecuted?

 

The law protects you from arrest when engaging in transactions between connected cg and pt. So clear this up for everyone.

 

 

If there is a primary caregiver there must be a secondary ? The primary connected designation only applies to plant counts and medical use is allowed as defined between participants . The Mt Pleasant Ruling did not say PTP was illegal only it could not be conducted for remuneration . CTP CTC is now being conducted absent a ruling on it with remunerItion for expenses which is legal . Personally I think anyone that includes a labor component will be found guilty of trying to profit and it is sad people have to wait for the courts to feel safe . They announced the Kalamazoo raid was to be a test case . Then they say they can't offer up a medical cannabis defense . Some people believe they should resist and offer these services in spite of the risks and patients have need but to directily answer you many people believe the broad definition of the Act under medical use that is protected allows for it and as I said the primary designation of connection only is intended to limit plant counts not protections involving " medical use " . People should consider their own situations , others layman intepretations could be wrong , prosecutors can feel different and the courts have the final say before acting . ===============================================================================================================================================================================

 

Initiated Law 1 of 2008

"Permit registered and unregistered patients and primary caregivers to assert medical reasons for using marijuana as a defense to any prosecution involving marijuana."

Section 333.26424

(e) A registered primary caregiver may receive compensation for costs associated with assisting a registered qualifying patient in the medical use of marihuana. Any such compensation shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances.

also

(i) A person shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, solely for being in the presence or vicinity of the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, or for assisting a registered qualifying patient with using or administering marihuana.

 

 

 

ok so if you are a caregiver and go to a 'compassion' center (store)-club-dispensary...or whatever else you wanna make it out to be...

what is the difference if (I) as a caregiver i sell the club my medicine and they turn around and 'sell' it to whatever 'patient' comes there?

how is that different or 'more' legal than a collectively operatied and functiong 'Farmers Market'?

it seems if you are a caregiver and you 'contract' ...thru table rent...you are doing the same thing as a club/dispensary whatever...

on 'private 'property..just a micro version..with less overhead that can be passed on to patients etc.

what Is the difference except you are doing it with a group of other patients caregivers...

in private ,discreetly from the public...in sanctioned zones that the city approves..how is this different when clubs really started this way

when patients caregivers banded together and negotiated with local officials to create 'spaces' that supplies their needs as medicinal users

and if I am not mistaken people that own work run clubz and dispensaries take the same risk on a smaller more limited collective effort..

the people that work -own-run those clubz are all under the same mindset that yes even though they are doing everything they think to legally interpret the law there is still a chance they would have to stand together and face a case..

.I think that if it was up to my choice I would rather stand together on principles with the larger group...JMO..

most clubz that have experienced any type of legal action usually find its the owners that take the brunt of the bust

usually worker bees are released and cases dismissed ..unless there is some complicity in illegal sales..

anyway something people don't realize or it is seldom mentioned is clubz can be interpreted as 'trafficking' ...

which just talking about it can be construed as conspiracy--

(selling)

now IMHO and being from Detroit

..FM to me look like 'collective' bargaining--

in the true spirit of the law

patients and caregivers coming together on their own terms to collectively and cooperatively bargain for medicine...

in private...on private property ..

what if my caregiver cannot supply me with the amount of medicine my condition requires??

am I allowed to seek out another??

is that the void dispensaries fill and what's the legal difference in a market?

all the onus is on caregivers am I correct?

and how to lump them together

I think everyone should get a caregiver card

(that would solve the semantics)

.and as far as I could see at ALL

(and I've been to them all)

at the markets you have to be a caregiver to 'donate' (which you place on table in front of you )medicine to perspective 'patient' which they ar then at liberty to compensate by donation for your efforts..

isn't that what dispensarys do get a 'donation'?

or are they allowed to say the 'sell' word because it's different and they're paying tax on it?

but indeed therein is the crux of the equation----

..and again up to patients discretion for said 'donation' and a caregiver has the right to refuse---

--not same at clubz

 

but I have seen a lot of sick and needy people at these markets leave with a smile on their face and the medicine they need

whatever it is....and FMs seem to allow for a more diverse choice

 

there how's that for rhetoric?

you see it's all semantics and is complete BS-

the dispensaries were and are a byproduct of the patients needs...demand outweighing the access

you see if you study dispensaries clubz you find the first ones were ALL started this way...a group and usually large ...100s..of patients and caregivers not dozens...all working twrds the same goal is how the first clubz were born...and I specifically point to WAMM in Santa Cruz which started with 150 terminal patients...

and Richard lees oaksterdam

..these were the 'first' sanctioned clubs..

..also Ed rosenthal in sf supporting aids patients and their act up clubs.....these people were giving it to AIDS patients in particualr...they proved mmj exponentially helps AIDS patients..the whole city of Santa Cruz was behind the patients and their caregivers and supported their collective effort...how many saw on tv when the city of Santa Cruz allowed medical marijuana to be passed out on the courthouse steps??

now there may not be that many aids patients here in Michigan but there are a lot of sick and medically challenged people

also tthe city of Oakland allowed Richard lee to establish the first dispensary zone in downtown Oakland...

and the whole city of Oakland was behind it

there is a club directly across from the main police station in oaksterdam!

the point is the people in these areas would not let the local authorities close them...by numbers and initiatives the people and patients fought tooth and nail to establish them..in these specific areas

how about Kalamazoo?.lowest priority...how about Genessee county?....these people and patients are standing together to defend their rights and access

I see that type of collective effort at these ' markets' ...at both the one in Roseville and the one in Jackson there were definately OVER 100people throughout the day...now that's a considerable amount...A2 was the smallest!.

.. and I would almost bet that if I had polled any of those people at those markets and asks if they would stand together with the rest of the people there should anything happen I bet it would be a collective yes...or a lot of them would run...at least the ones that could--

now I am relatively sure when these people go to these markets just as us who go to dispensaries know that we take the chance just going to these...places..

.but and I know from personal experience..I had much more fun first of all...and felt more comfortable at these markets than I did at some of the many clubz I have visited

my favorite clubs in Michigan are the private ones though that are not open to the public and are members only with private membership privileges...I

medicating areas and such...being allowed in private!

i have been to a few of these and I like that format too...which I think is what all clubs should be

I feel the majority of clubs here in Michigan kinda missed a step

by stepping out front

but not with large enough groups of patients supporting them individually

just small intimate closed circle so to speak...unknown until word spreads

most are now actively pursuing prospective new patients

if these clubs are trying to be who they are trying to look like

then they should step out in numbers

and I say let the biggest ones step out the most

bigger clubs with more patients should be the highest visibility

they should be transparent to us as patients caregivers so we can make informed decisions about them in every area based on collective feedback

we should see 'large' meetings of member base supporting these clubs

not small little individual dozen or so...let them consolidate and merge towards bigger and county wide outreach and support

rally all these patients and people in your respective areas

let's see the mass outrage of protest supporting these places...the LARGE groups--

I have been looking for these meetings but I don't see any...??...

the most people at these club meetings are a handful at most on a regular basis

of the ones I have been to

I've not seen any LARGE altruistic effort to rally or focus patients by any one club or center but tit is happening in certain rural areas that have large support

I see a collective effort by perspective club owners though to focus patients mindset towards distribution but the end will justify the means in each and every county

because in reality each city and county will adopt their own rules as they're trying to do now and in the end there will be cannabis cities and not---

just plain and simple I dont care how much you fight some cities will be more adverse than others and will just fight tooth and nail towards this

but IMHO after havering gone to FM in Jackson today and really enjoying myself meeting and talking with other patients and caregivers

I see these type of markets surviving as they have large support base

that's the really appealing thing about these is they are very social and personal

I really like these formats and I see no reason if we as patients in each of our respective areas ...support these type of spaces ....with LARGE support..

so they can operate and we will see increase in access and diversity thru these type situations

providing that a what people want

yeah clubz will be around but they will never offer the diversity nor the collective synergy a market represents

I had a great time at Jackson market today ...enjoyed some nice folks...felt some good vibes...enjoyed the complete experience and would repeat it again!...and again...I hope they all survive!

I even finally met the blu guy today for the first time but I didn't see any fangs...and he wasn't as abrasive as I have read about

peace thru the plant-

[Marijuana Ranch]

420Peace All,

 

r meds available at the market?

 

If so an add like this is a benifit to the 3ma membership...

 

OverGrow the Price!

[Hempcheff]

ok then, with all that knowledge dropped on us, how is an out of state visitor to have more rights than a resident, because the minute a visiting patient crosses the border, he is allowed the protections under our act. Your telling me the voters and authors intended to make them valid, yet deny them any source for medicine? Perhaps that is what you want the law to read, like bs and jc, but it doesnt.

 

4e deals with compensation not transfer. That section is specific to compensation. You are making the leap that because it deals with compensation then it necessarily means one can assist "a," meaning ANY, patient with a TRANSER. That's an incorrect interpretation of that section.

 

Referencing sub i is useless in this context. "Using" does NOT equal "medical use." That section is very clearly designed to keep people safe who are helping someone use the drug, not transfer the drug. Think more along the lines of someone helping prepare the vaporizer or roll the joint or make the brownies.

 

 

 

[Hempcheff]

Guess it's a good thing you don't have to go to the market. As far as me going, I really don't care if you like it or not. Your attempts to scare people away are not as effective as you hoped I would say.

[Medcnman]

4(e) & section 8. Nothing more would be needed if the laws were properly implemented. Medcnman.

[cristinew]

How is someone from out of state to get medicine? they can bring their own, ..its not addressed in the law,.

[Medcnman]

How is someone from out of state to get medicine? they can bring their own, ..its not addressed in the law,.

4(j)