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Michael Komorn’S Response To False Allegations And The Future Of The Mmma


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And you know you can always just go and not look back. Nobody will notice.. Promise

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ok i will ask, if the current standard changes and patients have to see you 3 times a year will you be charging them for the three visits? or will you offer a one time lower fee for all three visits?

I would think it reasonable that you are charged for at least an office visit eech time. Any professional has overhead that needs to be covered. Maybe not charge the same as the initial visit/evaluation when you do follow-ups.

 

You have to keep in mind that docs who are participating in this program are not, contrary to the claims of joe cain, getting rich off patients. That claim is such a load of crap it's silly. Most docs charge about, what, $150? Some a little more, some a little less. How much do you think they charge when you go in to see them for something as simple as strep throat? About the same. Somewhere between $100 and $150. Most people don't see that because they maybe only PAY a copay of $30 since insurance covers the rest, but the doc gets more than your copay when insurance pays out. The last time I went in to see my GP it was for an eye infection. The doc came in and looked at it and said it was probably pink eye. Said she would write a script. The whole thing took less than one minute. The entire charge was $130. I paid my copay and insurance paid the remainder.

 

My point is that it is high time we sent that attitude of "docs getting rich off patients" over to joe cain's website. Let him complain all he wants but let's be realistic here. If a doc charges you customary and reasonable rates then how about we don't act like they are the devil for it...?

 

Michigan currently has a shortage of doctors. MSU's med schools are expanding in an effort to help fill the larger gap predicted by 2020. Simple supply/demand tells you that docs don't need med mj patients to "get rich."

Edited by CaveatLector
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Michigan currently has a shortage of doctors. MSU meds schools are expanding in an effort to help fill the larger gap predicted by 2020. Simple supply/demand tells you that docs don't need med mj patients to "get rich."

 

 

I read somewhere cmu was opening a med school, anyone heard that?

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My issue is not to do with Joe or how much doctors charge; the problem is, my insurance doesn't cover any dr. visits except to my Primary doc or doctors he refers me to, medical marijuana not being covered. My primary doc does not do certifications, so I have to pay out of pocket to see a doctor to get certified. Not just me, but my husband too, so take that $150 and double it.

 

Another problem is living where I do, it is half hour at least, one way, to get to the doc.

 

Not trying to complain, or be argumentative but folks seem to have the misperception that we all agreed with everything Joe said. I'm just stating my feelings, trying to clarify that my personal issue is not with how much the doctors are charging, but being low income and my insurance not covering the visits, it would be a hardship to have to go see the doc more times.

 

I will take this opportunity to say, a big thank you to Dr. Bob for the low cost clinic he had in Clare, so we were able to both get certified for $150, and it was an in-person visit with the Doctor, not mail-in. God it's nice to be able to say that here.

 

 

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does this site have any affiliation with planet green trees?

regardless, let's pull-together! we must unify

 

maybe the show will give a shout-out, not like at the mega-crowd

in ann arbor the other day. ops

 

Is that an attempt at stand-up comedy?

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Reasonable?

 

Your whole premise is completely off -- Doctors need patients, and vice-versa. The FAIR ones should and will get the "business"

 

Who makes $150 a minute? That is so perverse, mmj patient or not! This is why people protest and "occupy" and the perversity of this is sickening

(as good Docs are out there who are fair and caring WE need to spend a few minutes researching, investigating and doing our homework to find them and then support them). To Hell with the rest.

 

The House Bills will make it even more difficult to get a Certification (which is the objective) and this is as absurd as a Doc charging $150 minute--a Docs certification

only says that mmj "MIGHT" help -- a pretty wide open standard and I cannot see how anyone can question it with a straight face --- we need to step up our game here and oppose these things.

 

 

These Lawmakers are playing games -- it SHOULD be that if you have your MMJ Cert and Card --- that's it --- A Court should not go further (like they have) and start questioning IF it was a "bona fide" Doctor/Patient relationship

is a Court's ruling as the patient probably did not "look: sick -- we have seen this from California to Michigan. All this simply has the objective of weakening the areas of the Law LEO does not like that protects patients.

 

The entire premise of these Bills is to make it more and more difficult to get certification/registry card (and easier to arrest a mmj patient) -- why are they not saying if the Doc is violating the Law, get him/her

Do NOT put it on the PATIENT'S Back !

 

The simple fact is We need to oppose every word, at every step, of these Bills --- they are a direct assault on American Values (as is making $150 a minute) and the American Way. Our representatives have been

bought and paid for (and that is the whole problem, as they are not serving the people who elected them, they are serving special interests).

 

Again, the entire premise is way off base -- we need to oppose these Bills (and Laws) that is making it more difficult for us to have treatment !!

 

 

 

I would think it reasonable that you are charged for at least an office visit eech time. Any professional has overhead that needs to be covered. Maybe not charge the same as the initial visit/evaluation when you do follow-ups.

 

You have to keep in mind that docs who are participating in this program are not, contrary to the claims of joe cain, getting rich off patients. That claim is such a load of crap it's silly. Most docs charge about, what, $150? Some a little more, some a little less. How much do you think they charge when you go in to see them for something as simple as strep throat? About the same. Somewhere between $100 and $150. Most people don't see that because they maybe only PAY a copay of $30 since insurance covers the rest, but the doc gets more than your copay when insurance pays out. The last time I went in to see my GP it was for an eye infection. The doc came in and looked at it and said it was probably pink eye. Said she would write a script. The whole thing took less than one minute. The entire charge was $130. I paid my copay and insurance paid the remainder.

 

My point is that it is high time we sent that attitude of "docs getting rich off patients" over to joe cain's website. Let him complain all he wants but let's be realistic here. If a doc charges you customary and reasonable rates then how about we don't act like they are the devil for it...?

 

Michigan currently has a shortage of doctors. MSU's med schools are expanding in an effort to help fill the larger gap predicted by 2020. Simple supply/demand tells you that docs don't need med mj patients to "get rich."

Edited by Murph
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I would think it reasonable that you are charged for at least an office visit eech time. Any professional has overhead that needs to be covered. Maybe not charge the same as the initial visit/evaluation when you do follow-ups.

 

You have to keep in mind that docs who are participating in this program are not, contrary to the claims of joe cain, getting rich off patients. That claim is such a load of crap it's silly. Most docs charge about, what, $150? Some a little more, some a little less. How much do you think they charge when you go in to see them for something as simple as strep throat? About the same. Somewhere between $100 and $150. Most people don't see that because they maybe only PAY a copay of $30 since insurance covers the rest, but the doc gets more than your copay when insurance pays out. The last time I went in to see my GP it was for an eye infection. The doc came in and looked at it and said it was probably pink eye. Said she would write a script. The whole thing took less than one minute. The entire charge was $130. I paid my copay and insurance paid the remainder.

 

My point is that it is high time we sent that attitude of "docs getting rich off patients" over to joe cain's website. Let him complain all he wants but let's be realistic here. If a doc charges you customary and reasonable rates then how about we don't act like they are the devil for it...?

 

Michigan currently has a shortage of doctors. MSU's med schools are expanding in an effort to help fill the larger gap predicted by 2020. Simple supply/demand tells you that docs don't need med mj patients to "get rich."

 

 

 

It depends on where you go but between $100.00 & $150.00 is just a bit higher than the average price to see a doc for strep throat etc.

 

http://trentontotalhealth.com/services

 

New patients start at $78.00 and returning start at $62.00 these prices exclude any injections, lab work & test. Most clinics in this part of the state charge very close to the same fees. I won't say the doc who write certifications are getting rich but they are earning a decent living.

 

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Reasonable?

 

Your whole premise is completely off -- Doctors need patients, and vice-versa. The FAIR ones should and will get the "business"

 

Who makes $150 a minute? That is so perverse, mmj patient or not! This is why people protest and "occupy" and the perversity of some things is sickening

(and their are good Docs out there who are fair and caring, so WE need to spend a few minutes and research, investigate, and do our homework to find them).

 

 

Well it's clear you have no clue about the real world. It isn't about making $150/minute it is about the diagnosis of the problem and the treatment. What do you know about medicine? Seems pretty clear it isn't much.

 

If you're a doctor in private practice what is the overhead? Well, let's see. I'm not a doc but I have a pretty good idea of a lot of the overhead costs. Docs go to school for at least 8 years. Then they do a residency. It takes most docs at least 11 years of post high school work to get to a point where they can own a practice. Then most have huge student debt to pay. Huge liability insurance to pay. Nurses, med techs, clerical workers, accountants, etc., to pay. Brick and mortar building along with taxes, utilities, maintenance., etc.

 

The cost of medical care is a function of all of that plus, I'm sure, plenty of stuff of which I am not aware. If docs made $30/hour like a factory worker who is screwing a doohickey to a thingamabob on the line at GM then they WOULDN'T likely go to med chool. Which would mean even FEWER docs.

 

If you know basic economics 101 then you know about scarcity of resources and supply/demand. Docs are scarce. Why? Because not everyone wants to go through all that schooling and pay for it AND, even if they were willing, not everyone is smart enough to do that. Therefore, docs are handsomely paid. If you don't like that then maybe you should start a movement to convert us to communism and pay docs $25/hour from the minute they graduate high school until they retire. Pay them to go to school and then pay them to practice. Also, we could eliminate any right to sue for malpractice. That will eliminate the need for insurance. Maybe we could also make one giant office every 100 miles and make docs work in 1 of 5 offices in the state to share overhead. Sound like a good system? I didn't think so.

 

Docs don't charge patients by the hour. They charge by the visit or service. Sometimes your visit may take 20 minutes with the doc sometimes it may take 1 minute. That's how it goes. Make no mistake, the doc isn't making 100% profit off what you pay them for a visit. Give me a break.

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Caveatlector...

 

Every office has its overhead that it has to cover... staff, rent, supplies, etc. About 20% of the typical primary care office's overhead is devoted to billing and the associated paperwork itself. It's very complicated and insurance companies seem to thrive on difficulty... the harder they make it to collect from them, the more they make. Taking our twins to the pediatricians office for physicals and immunizations? About $300 per visit prior to meeting our deductible. The doctor spends about 5 minutes per child.

 

More regulations simply increase the costs to the patients and many patients should probably be certified for life, imo. It should be up to the doctors as to how long a patient should be certified and how frequently they need to be followed up with. It's time for the government to back itself out of the examination room and leave the medical decision making up to the doctors.

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I won't say the doc who write certifications are getting rich but they are earning a decent living.

As well they should.

We live in a capitalist country. Competition will level off prices for the most part. So whatever you pay is likely what the market can bear.

 

I like the point regarding cost of meds vs cost of doc cert.

 

I also like AKenewell's point that some patients should have a lifetime cert or at least some number of years if they qualify. Even so, there should be follow-up visits to make sure things are going well and there are no adverse interactions with other meds, etc.

Edited by CaveatLector
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I would think it reasonable that you are charged for at least an office visit eech time. Any professional has overhead that needs to be covered. Maybe not charge the same as the initial visit/evaluation when you do follow-ups.

 

You have to keep in mind that docs who are participating in this program are not, contrary to the claims of joe cain, getting rich off patients. That claim is such a load of crap it's silly. Most docs charge about, what, $150? Some a little more, some a little less. How much do you think they charge when you go in to see them for something as simple as strep throat? About the same. Somewhere between $100 and $150. Most people don't see that because they maybe only PAY a copay of $30 since insurance covers the rest, but the doc gets more than your copay when insurance pays out. The last time I went in to see my GP it was for an eye infection. The doc came in and looked at it and said it was probably pink eye. Said she would write a script. The whole thing took less than one minute. The entire charge was $130. I paid my copay and insurance paid the remainder.

 

My point is that it is high time we sent that attitude of "docs getting rich off patients" over to joe cain's website. Let him complain all he wants but let's be realistic here. If a doc charges you customary and reasonable rates then how about we don't act like they are the devil for it...?

 

Michigan currently has a shortage of doctors. MSU's med schools are expanding in an effort to help fill the larger gap predicted by 2020. Simple supply/demand tells you that docs don't need med mj patients to "get rich."

 

 

to go a step farther, How many visits does any one illness require to get and maintain a prescription of any meds? in many cases, that is one. and with some there are annual checkups, and yet others their are weekly or monthly checkups as well. So why is it when we inject cannabis as the medicine, does it need to be changed is the general question I think most any citizen would have, including Patients.

 

some conditions are life long, and may slowly, perhaps maybe never progress. they may be worse they may be better. but in any case. it is almost always the Patient that initiates contact with a Physician when they feel something is not right.

 

To mandate you must have any number of follow up visits, strictly because cannabis is the med of choice, creates a separate class of citizen, and patient.

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Where does it say in the bill that 3 visits a year would be required? The most recent bill I read just had some language about a reasonable expectation of continuing care or somesuch. I also thought one of the Reps during the hearing said that was more about doctors having to have a set physical address, not be writing certs out of a room at the Comfort Inn.

Edited by Petyr
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I have personally never been on any RX meds for more than a short period. not out of need, but choice.

 

but my back problems started young, and at 14, the Drs. wanted to put me on steady meds. I was presrcibed Perks i think they were back in the early 80s, and I lost about 2 weeks of my life on their dosages and poisons. I swore them off unless it was absolutely a life/death situation, and with exception to tooth pain, I dont really ever take anything for it, except cannabis.

But at that time, after i refused the suggestion of surgery, i was given a script that was refillable, and I only needed to contact, not even make an appointment (actually my mom was as I was still a minor) to get the script re registered for the year. So my last experience with this personally was 30yrs ago. But my brother and my ex wife both regularly got and took narco pain scrips and in most cases, it was just a phone call to get the script refilled...

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How many people actually have the health insurance to go to the doctors in the first place,,, not many I would hedge my bets on very few. How can you 'maintain' a relationship when you either have state medicare-medicaid (which would cost me Half of my monthly disability to be using), and your state doc will not sign a mm app, or you have no doctor because you can't afford basic healthcare. I say, not only can they not force us to buy health care coverage; Supreme Court Ruling to be soon, but they should not be able to force us to pay for a doctor patient relationship, when it's simply just not feasible monetarily. The State must accept cannabis as a health treatment, and all doctors should be allowed to sign off on a patients app without repercussions. Unless this is changed, the 'doctor patient relationship' is being hindered by the State itself.

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to get most narcotics it take at least two visits a year

 

At my pain clinic I get Morphine for pain control and I have to be seen every 28 days to comply with DEA regulations according to the doctor. I have to pick up my scripts in person and sign for the script before they give it to me.

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to go a step farther, How many visits does any one illness require to get and maintain a prescription of any meds? in many cases, that is one. and with some there are annual checkups, and yet others their are weekly or monthly checkups as well. So why is it when we inject cannabis as the medicine, does it need to be changed is the general question I think most any citizen would have, including Patients.

 

some conditions are life long, and may slowly, perhaps maybe never progress. they may be worse they may be better. but in any case. it is almost always the Patient that initiates contact with a Physician when they feel something is not right.

 

To mandate you must have any number of follow up visits, strictly because cannabis is the med of choice, creates a separate class of citizen, and patient.

I know of NO doctor that would give a patient a lifetime script for ANY med without follow up visits. I don't know any docs that would even give a patient a lifetime script. usually it is for some term of months at most. I would think that doing that (issuing a lifetime script) without follow-ups would be a breach of the duty of care imposed by medical standards.

 

So I don't see this mysterious separate class of citizen to which you are referring.

 

With that said, I don't think it is up to me, someone who is not a doc, to decide what is best in that regard. I think it is up to a doc to practice within the standard of care 1st and exercise due care when making discreationary decisions 2nd. However, I doubt there is a medical board anywhere that would agree that giving a lifetime script for ANY med is within the standard of care. Why? Because there is this notion of follow up. Seeing how a patient is doing over time. Making sure the drug doesn't interact with other drugs. Making sure there are no long term problems associated with it such as it affecting blood pressure, etc., etc., etc. So, my point is that you need to understand WHY docs don't give lifetime scripts before you argue that they should be given.

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So here we are, lost in some info none of us can be sure of on any level, but if my word as a person means anything to anyone, the only theft I could see, is the theft of time that has been stolen from this movement by a person that for whatever reason, felt the need to cause more harm than good. and that is something I still have to question.

 

I beg to differ because it is the time we members have chosen to fight about all that has transpired and how we have given this all too much attention that has really derailed us. Had we not been doing that we would have spent more time writing, calling, finding ways to band together to protect our rights. All things can not be blamed on others it is time for us to decide to be more mature about this, quit pointing fingers, and move on.

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