Chaos Makers

[+kurt klaas]

I have recently posted the comments below under an other topic.

 

Today is see a post that does nothing other than try to create chaos and keep the mmj community locked in unproductive conflict.

 

Can you moderators not exercise some needed judgment and authority and delete such posts?

 

The failure of the moderators in the recent past to do just precisely that--in a way that is just--is part of the very problem of the MMMA.

 

Can you still not do what is best for the overall community rather than what is best for an individual and their supposed free speech rights?

 

I am not asking you to ban anybody but to delete posts that are designed to do nothing but create chaos.

 

Please do your job.

 

Kurt

 

To all who read the MMMA forums:

 

Those who have been involved with and have been watching the fortunes of the MMMA over its short lifetime know that this is not the first time there has been serious MMMA leadership conflict, although this bout is probably the most serious episode to date.

 

I want to offer my two cents about the current leadership upheaval.

 

1. It only holds the healing process back if people spend time digging into the distant or recent past and bringing it up to try and understand how it all could have happened and how it could have come to this mess. Try to forget about that as much as possible. LOOK TOWARD THE FUTURE AND WHAT CONTRIBUTIONS CAN BE MADE TO MAKE THAT MORE EFFECTIVE.

 

(If you want to know the essence of it, it is this. Any person in the kind of key leadership position that Blueberry filled, voluntarily, is caught up in trying to manage high pressures coming from different factions advancing their agendas that all come together in a cauldron of high conflict that generates tremendous stress on the key leader who must deal with it all. The pressure is such that it will cause serious damage on any person who has weaknesses in their leadership abilities or has personality deficits. One response to the growing feeling of not being able to control the flow of events and conflict is to become more desperate in trying to manage it all. If anything, Blueberry is a casualty of the intense pressures on the MMJ community that come from many sides. The person who will be brave or crazy enough to replace him will be faced with the same exact difficult problems and power contests and will be attacked from all sides too.)

 

2. I have said it before, and I repeat it again: the moderators must exercise good judgment and use their authority, when they need to, to censure any post in which the poster is generating self-interested chaos and unhealthy conflict. This happens all the time, people posting stuff that simply contributes to the chaos rather than moving the community forward. Despite the fact that some people complain about censorship of any kind, that no one should ever be banned, this is completely naive. At some point there needs to be lines drawn. I am not saying those lines have been drawn correctly in the recent past, but people do regularly cross a line that must never be compromised, for the sake of the health of the MMMA and the forums and the cause. Lots of stuff is being posted in this time of chaos that only makes the chaos worse, and I encourage the moderators to manage the conflict better by deleting posts that do so.

 

3. The MMJ cause is far bigger than any one particular person. NO ONE IS INDISPENSABLE. Do not get hung up on which personality to support or is wrong or right. Support the cause and determine loyalties from the point of view of what is best for the overall cause, not what is best or right or just as it regards a particular person.

 

4. It ought to be OK to disagree about even fundamental principles and policy views and not be banned from the MMMA or be attacked personally, which happens all the time, as people attribute bad motives to others with whom they disagree, when no one can know the inner motives of another person to begin with. Quit smearing the character of those you disagree with. Keep the debates centered on above-the-belt arguments. Forget about describing some person as good or bad, attack their viewpoints only.

 

5. Speak the truth, even when the truth is embarrassing or damages the image of the MMJ. Outsiders can easily see when insiders are playing games. It only makes the insiders look disingenuous and easy to ignore. For instance, speak the truth about abuse of government officials as it regards restricting the rights of persons to get access to medical care that is efficacious. But also speak the truth about abuse that plagues the MMJ cause. Speak all the truth, not just that which promotes the cause.

 

Kurt

[AKenewell]

Thank you for the post, I agree AK

[mendonesian]

I have recently posted the comments below under an other topic.

 

Today is see a post that does nothing other than try to create chaos and keep the mmj community locked in unproductive conflict.

 

Can you moderators not exercise some needed judgment and authority and delete such posts?

 

The failure of the moderators in the recent past to do just precisely that--in a way that is just--is part of the very problem of the MMMA.

 

Can you still not do what is best for the overall community rather than what is best for an individual and their supposed free speech rights?

 

I am not asking you to ban anybody but to delete posts that are designed to do nothing but create chaos.

 

Please do your job.

 

Kurt

 

To all who read the MMMA forums:

 

Those who have been involved with and have been watching the fortunes of the MMMA over its short lifetime know that this is not the first time there has been serious MMMA leadership conflict, although this bout is probably the most serious episode to date.

 

I want to offer my two cents about the current leadership upheaval.

 

1. It only holds the healing process back if people spend time digging into the distant or recent past and bringing it up to try and understand how it all could have happened and how it could have come to this mess. Try to forget about that as much as possible. LOOK TOWARD THE FUTURE AND WHAT CONTRIBUTIONS CAN BE MADE TO MAKE THAT MORE EFFECTIVE.

 

(If you want to know the essence of it, it is this. Any person in the kind of key leadership position that Blueberry filled, voluntarily, is caught up in trying to manage high pressures coming from different factions advancing their agendas that all come together in a cauldron of high conflict that generates tremendous stress on the key leader who must deal with it all. The pressure is such that it will cause serious damage on any person who has weaknesses in their leadership abilities or has personality deficits. One response to the growing feeling of not being able to control the flow of events and conflict is to become more desperate in trying to manage it all. If anything, Blueberry is a casualty of the intense pressures on the MMJ community that come from many sides. The person who will be brave or crazy enough to replace him will be faced with the same exact difficult problems and power contests and will be attacked from all sides too.)

 

2. I have said it before, and I repeat it again: the moderators must exercise good judgment and use their authority, when they need to, to censure any post in which the poster is generating self-interested chaos and unhealthy conflict. This happens all the time, people posting stuff that simply contributes to the chaos rather than moving the community forward. Despite the fact that some people complain about censorship of any kind, that no one should ever be banned, this is completely naive. At some point there needs to be lines drawn. I am not saying those lines have been drawn correctly in the recent past, but people do regularly cross a line that must never be compromised, for the sake of the health of the MMMA and the forums and the cause. Lots of stuff is being posted in this time of chaos that only makes the chaos worse, and I encourage the moderators to manage the conflict better by deleting posts that do so.

 

3. The MMJ cause is far bigger than any one particular person. NO ONE IS INDISPENSABLE. Do not get hung up on which personality to support or is wrong or right. Support the cause and determine loyalties from the point of view of what is best for the overall cause, not what is best or right or just as it regards a particular person.

 

4. It ought to be OK to disagree about even fundamental principles and policy views and not be banned from the MMMA or be attacked personally, which happens all the time, as people attribute bad motives to others with whom they disagree, when no one can know the inner motives of another person to begin with. Quit smearing the character of those you disagree with. Keep the debates centered on above-the-belt arguments. Forget about describing some person as good or bad, attack their viewpoints only.

 

5. Speak the truth, even when the truth is embarrassing or damages the image of the MMJ. Outsiders can easily see when insiders are playing games. It only makes the insiders look disingenuous and easy to ignore. For instance, speak the truth about abuse of government officials as it regards restricting the rights of persons to get access to medical care that is efficacious. But also speak the truth about abuse that plagues the MMJ cause. Speak all the truth, not just that which promotes the cause.

 

Kurt

 

 

usually the truth needs no voice...it speaks loudly in and of itself...there only needs light to be shined upon it so others can see

...as individuals we all follow our own truth...that we hold as "our" highest principle(s)

sometimes truth cannot be explained in words nor does it need to

it has to be experienced...

 

peace and unity thru the plant

[cristinew]

the truth is, I was banned from this site for speaking it,

[jayt]

So how is that different from what BB was doing? Censure and delete anything you don't agree with because it's too difficult to listen to someone else? Hide everything you don't like to create a false little world? You could go over to mmma.co and see what that world looks like now. One person talking to himself all day long.

 

This happens to be a movement that brings out a lot of emotion in some people. Why should they not be allowed to join the conversation? If you don't like it don't read it nobody forces you to come here do they? There is a lot going on now that is very unappealing but these are upset people who've be wronged for no other reason than voicing their opinions.

 

It's going to take time for everyone who was here and everyone who returned to learn to get along again. Give it time. Most are reasonable people capable of understanding that other s hold different opinions from their own. Most understand the passion that the members here have. It's a part of life when you have sick and hurting people afraid they will lose what they need to remain well.

[Spartyon]

I have been a member for a long time I dont post very often but have thousand of hours of reading. I use this site for growing tips and to find out the latest info on police coruption. This site helped me to make a decision not to do an outdoor grow this year based on current cort cases. Just one example of how this site has helped myself. and i mangaged not to get banned.

 

I have no Agenda other than keeping the law the way the people intinded it to be. Shuting down threads is not the way it should be going here all that does is make people like me believe that something fishy is going on here. Only thing that should be censored are personal attacks. The last thread that was locked i didnt see any reason to shut it down maybe the author is a bit bitter but thats his right. Without an open dialogue the healing cant begin and you will never earn the trust of the people back. All i want is an answer to a simple question. I missed the first 30 min of green trees last week maybe MK answered my question then. Is the 3ma a non profit or not?

 

 

 

I suppose i will keep asking this question on every thread untill i get an answer or i am banned. Any organization asking for dontation should not have a problem answering this basic question? Is the 3ma in the prossess of filing the paper work to be a non profit?

[quietone]

It is non-profit and it is posted in one of the threads discussing this matter. I would look it up for you, but I am a little busy right now.

[AKenewell]

I have been a member for a long time I dont post very often but have thousand of hours of reading. I use this site for growing tips and to find out the latest info on police coruption. This site helped me to make a decision not to do an outdoor grow this year based on current cort cases. Just one example of how this site has helped myself. and i mangaged not to get banned.

 

I have no Agenda other than keeping the law the way the people intinded it to be. Shuting down threads is not the way it should be going here all that does is make people like me believe that something fishy is going on here. Only thing that should be censored are personal attacks. The last thread that was locked i didnt see any reason to shut it down maybe the author is a bit bitter but thats his right. Without an open dialogue the healing cant begin and you will never earn the trust of the people back. All i want is an answer to a simple question. I missed the first 30 min of green trees last week maybe MK answered my question then. Is the 3ma a non profit or not?

 

 

 

I suppose i will keep asking this question on every thread untill i get an answer or i am banned. Any organization asking for dontation should not have a problem answering this basic question? Is the 3ma in the prossess of filing the paper work to be a non profit?

 

 

As I stated twice in response to this question..... Michael Komorn has put up a thread for questions..please post your question in that thread. I am sure he will see it there.. Do you need a link to that thread?

[AKenewell]

Thread is titled..Michael Komorn's response to fase allegations and the future of the MMMA..all questions should be posted in that thread. AK

[abe supercro]

Censorship?

 

That's NOT a good idea, sorry Kurt and Kenny.

[Hempcheff]

So....like a thread that lists the offenders? By censuring them in that fashion, mods can keep track of habitual offenders? That seems a bit like public flogging though...

 

I have recently posted the comments below under an other topic.

 

Today is see a post that does nothing other than try to create chaos and keep the mmj community locked in unproductive conflict.

 

Can you moderators not exercise some needed judgment and authority and delete such posts?

 

The failure of the moderators in the recent past to do just precisely that--in a way that is just--is part of the very problem of the MMMA.

 

Can you still not do what is best for the overall community rather than what is best for an individual and their supposed free speech rights?

 

I am not asking you to ban anybody but to delete posts that are designed to do nothing but create chaos.

 

Please do your job.

 

Kurt

 

To all who read the MMMA forums:

 

Those who have been involved with and have been watching the fortunes of the MMMA over its short lifetime know that this is not the first time there has been serious MMMA leadership conflict, although this bout is probably the most serious episode to date.

 

I want to offer my two cents about the current leadership upheaval.

 

1. It only holds the healing process back if people spend time digging into the distant or recent past and bringing it up to try and understand how it all could have happened and how it could have come to this mess. Try to forget about that as much as possible. LOOK TOWARD THE FUTURE AND WHAT CONTRIBUTIONS CAN BE MADE TO MAKE THAT MORE EFFECTIVE.

 

(If you want to know the essence of it, it is this. Any person in the kind of key leadership position that Blueberry filled, voluntarily, is caught up in trying to manage high pressures coming from different factions advancing their agendas that all come together in a cauldron of high conflict that generates tremendous stress on the key leader who must deal with it all. The pressure is such that it will cause serious damage on any person who has weaknesses in their leadership abilities or has personality deficits. One response to the growing feeling of not being able to control the flow of events and conflict is to become more desperate in trying to manage it all. If anything, Blueberry is a casualty of the intense pressures on the MMJ community that come from many sides. The person who will be brave or crazy enough to replace him will be faced with the same exact difficult problems and power contests and will be attacked from all sides too.)

 

2. I have said it before, and I repeat it again: the moderators must exercise good judgment and use their authority, when they need to, to censure any post in which the poster is generating self-interested chaos and unhealthy conflict. This happens all the time, people posting stuff that simply contributes to the chaos rather than moving the community forward. Despite the fact that some people complain about censorship of any kind, that no one should ever be banned, this is completely naive. At some point there needs to be lines drawn. I am not saying those lines have been drawn correctly in the recent past, but people do regularly cross a line that must never be compromised, for the sake of the health of the MMMA and the forums and the cause. Lots of stuff is being posted in this time of chaos that only makes the chaos worse, and I encourage the moderators to manage the conflict better by deleting posts that do so.

 

3. The MMJ cause is far bigger than any one particular person. NO ONE IS INDISPENSABLE. Do not get hung up on which personality to support or is wrong or right. Support the cause and determine loyalties from the point of view of what is best for the overall cause, not what is best or right or just as it regards a particular person.

 

4. It ought to be OK to disagree about even fundamental principles and policy views and not be banned from the MMMA or be attacked personally, which happens all the time, as people attribute bad motives to others with whom they disagree, when no one can know the inner motives of another person to begin with. Quit smearing the character of those you disagree with. Keep the debates centered on above-the-belt arguments. Forget about describing some person as good or bad, attack their viewpoints only.

 

5. Speak the truth, even when the truth is embarrassing or damages the image of the MMJ. Outsiders can easily see when insiders are playing games. It only makes the insiders look disingenuous and easy to ignore. For instance, speak the truth about abuse of government officials as it regards restricting the rights of persons to get access to medical care that is efficacious. But also speak the truth about abuse that plagues the MMJ cause. Speak all the truth, not just that which promotes the cause.

 

Kurt

 

 

So how is that different from what BB was doing? Censure and delete anything you don't agree with because it's too difficult to listen to someone else? Hide everything you don't like to create a false little world? You could go over to mmma.co and see what that world looks like now. One person talking to himself all day long.

 

This happens to be a movement that brings out a lot of emotion in some people. Why should they not be allowed to join the conversation? If you don't like it don't read it nobody forces you to come here do they? There is a lot going on now that is very unappealing but these are upset people who've be wronged for no other reason than voicing their opinions.

 

It's going to take time for everyone who was here and everyone who returned to learn to get along again. Give it time. Most are reasonable people capable of understanding that other s hold different opinions from their own. Most understand the passion that the members here have. It's a part of life when you have sick and hurting people afraid they will lose what they need to remain well.

[AKenewell]

If there are people here only to cause problems..how does that help? How does that contribute? We need to fill this board with good discussions, and move forward not a bunch of threads about what happened..we have one thread for that. We have a great opportunity for change...I invite everyone to be a part of that not try to pull us backward..AK

[jayt]

If there are people here only to cause problems..how does that help? How does that contribute? We need to fill this board with good discussions, and move forward not a bunch of threads about what happened..we have one thread for that. We have a great opportunity for change...I invite everyone to be a part of that not try to pull us backward..AK

Wouldn't it be better to correct them and engage them rather than just delete what they say? If they get out of hand they can always be banned. Deleting and editing posts disrupts the conversations. It leads to a lack of trust and openness that seems to be needed right now.

[AKenewell]

Wouldn't it be better to correct them and engage them rather than just delete what they say? If they get out of hand they can always be banned. Deleting and editing posts disrupts the conversations. It leads to a lack of trust and openness that seems to be needed right now.

 

 

Nobody said there would be deleting or editing of posts..I personally would only do that if absolutely necessary..like profanity..personal attack..debate's the more the merrier..I am agreeing with Kurt in the sense that if you are only here to bring chaos and stir up trouble that is not needed..It just accomplishes nothing..I care greatly for this movement..and am so glad for the change..looks like better day's ahead but harder to get there with some trying to stir up chit..wouldn't you agree? AK

 

LOL..although I edit my own posts frequently for spelling as I type to fast without always checking it:)

[jayt]

I have recently posted the comments below under an other topic.

 

Today is see a post that does nothing other than try to create chaos and keep the mmj community locked in unproductive conflict.

 

Can you moderators not exercise some needed judgment and authority and delete such posts?

 

The failure of the moderators in the recent past to do just precisely that--in a way that is just--is part of the very problem of the MMMA.

 

Can you still not do what is best for the overall community rather than what is best for an individual and their supposed free speech rights?

 

I am not asking you to ban anybody but to delete posts that are designed to do nothing but create chaos.

 

Please do your job.

 

Kurt

 

 

 

Thank you for the post, I agree AK

 

Well that is what Kurt is asking for and you have agreed with him.

[Spartyon]

Thanks for answering that question must of missed it in that thread. Give us some credit let the people sift through the piles of poo and deceminate the info. This will run its course and die off maybe not as quick as some like but locks threads and deleting post not the answer we need to heal here.

[Herbert Reyes]

The judgement required for one person to censor a post from thousands is significantly greater than that required for one reader to disregard that comment, or post a response to it. I'd like members to be ready to take that approach for a while. If you don't like what you are reading, either stop reading it and move to the next comment, or comment back telling the person why they are wrong.

[jayt]

The judgement required for one person to censor a post from thousands is significantly greater than that required for one reader to disregard that comment, or post a response to it. I'd like members to be ready to take that approach for a while. If you don't like what you are reading, either stop reading it and move to the next comment, or comment back telling the person why they are wrong.

Thank you. I hope that's the approach that will be taken.

[newbie313]

Though I don't always agree with the mods I feel as though they usually do a good job. Making these decisions is a difficult task bc no matter what you do some of the people will be upset.

[JohnB RPh]

just so there is no further confusion...

 

I find this post rather heavy handed and intimidating. Love the graphic though.

[+wolfgang]

I personally think anything goes. We are all adults here, I can tell either by the title or a few sentences into the thread if its a conversation I want to be involved in. If it looks like its going to bring me down or just a topic i not in the mood for i move along, why cant ppl CHOOSe what they want to talk about? I don't want to be censored.

[jayt]

Those people will always be there. Censoring and deleting posts only serves to allow it to continue. Those who would choose to edit posts and limit speech are manipulating as well. Everyone needs to be able to interpret the information placed before them. No one here needs a keeper.

 

It's understandable to ban users who are advocating violence or are launching personal attacks against others. But leave their posts let us see who they are so we can decide what we think of their opinions. Everything has a context to be interpreted against and missing posts prevents one from seeing the whole picture.

[LongHairBri]

I made a few revisions Q, hope you don't mind

 

[solabeirtan]

True Democracy !

[mizerman]