Warning. Law Changes Will Take Place Instantly.

[mibrains]

 

 

A bona fide dr/pt relationship carries with it a duty by the patient to be honest and forthright. It also carries with it the duty by the doc to examine you based on the standard of care. Patients are not required to police the doc to be sure he met his obligations. If you reasonably believe that the doc acted properly then you're good. This strict liability nonsense that is floating around is fear mongering.

 

thank u for your input...caveat

 

i can absolutely appreciate this stance.. I value the relationship between the doctor and patient..

 

i can't help but wonder how we can help as a community help folks? and maybe ensure they are meeting with a bona-fied physician and possibly even help create some ideas for patients to think about when meeting with a doctor to obtain a certification.

 

can we all (as a mixed group of like minded individuals) come up with the one page printable document that says the top 10 (or so) questions to ask yourself when meeting with a cannabis doctor for certification?

 

i say we make a list since this seems to be about the relationship a doctor has with their patient for a certification whether a renewal or re-certification (because i feel they are equal when it comes to substantiating an illness)

 

some things seem painfully obvious but even the basics must be included to be competent and user friendly for everyone...

 

i will start

 

1) is my doctor here? in the room to meet with me and discuss my condition? are they licensed and in good standing in the state of Michigan?

 

2)

[Dr. Bob]

This is what we use and might serve as a basis for your project John.....

 

What is needed for a Certification?

 

 

 

06 January 2012

Dr. Robert Townsend

At Dr. Bob and the Certification Crew, we provide medical marijuana certifications for patients that qualify under the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act.

To determine if you qualify, you will need to show us that you have one of the qualifying conditions:

 

1. Cancer: A medical record confirming cancer listing type and current therapy

2. Glaucoma: A medical record showing glaucoma and treatment

3. Crohn’s Disease: Recent medical records confirming the diagnosis

4. HIV: Recent blood testing and medication

5. Hepatitis C: Blood work and proof of treatment

6. Nail Patella Syndrome: Confirmation of diagnosis from your doctor

7. ALS: confirmation of diagnosis from doctor

8. Alzheimer's disease: Confirmation of diagnosis

9. Wasting Syndrome: Diagnosis of wasting syndrome from primary care physician

10. Chronic Pain: Confirmation of 3 months of symptoms requiring treatment from a physician/chiropractor

11. Severe Nausea: Confirmation of 3 months of symptoms and treatment for nausea

12. Seizures: Diagnosis of seizures and current anti-seizure medications

13. Muscle Spasms: Confirmation of 3 months of symptoms and current treatment.

 

To document a diagnosis, we need records from your treating physician. We generally ask for 3-5 notes but as above, we simply need enough records to clearly and defensibly confirm you have a qualifying condition. Generally, you can go to your physician and ask to fill out a records release for the last 3-5 office visit notes, MRI reports, etc. and have them faxed to our office at 989-317-3150. Be sure to use a cover sheet that has your contact information. If you need a records release, you can download it from our website. It is in the same location that has the new and renewal application packets on the right side.

 

You will download the appropriate packet, fill out your sections and bring it in to the clinic, or we can provide you with the forms when you come in at no charge. Gather your medical records; bring them WITH you on the day of appointment. The appointment takes about 15 min, plus the time of filling out the paperwork and making copies of everything.

Prior to coming into the clinic, you might want to contact the local compassion club and meet some potential caregivers, unless you are able to grow your own meds. An interactive map is on my website.

 

Note on the bona fide doctor patient relationship:

 

This office uses a 5 part definition for the bona fide doctor/patient relationship and will continue to do so until we are given another definition from the state. Dr. Townsend is an acknowledged expert on the bona fide dr/pt relationship in N. Michigan. He has been consulted by attorneys, government officials, and various organizations to clarify and explain what constitutes a bona fide relationship and what does not, as well as the components and standards of a certification exam.

 

1. There will be a real-time interaction between the patient and the physician, in person. Telemedicine is available for remote or home bound patients but will only be used in justified situations and evaluated case by case for some renewals. It is expected the vast majority of time you will go to a live appointment with me.

2. If the diagnosis of the qualifying condition is made by your primary healthcare provider (md/do/chiropractor) to an acceptable degree of medical certainty, we will review the documentation, confirm the diagnosis and issue the certification.

3. If the diagnosis of the qualifying condition is not confirmed, or you are not under the care of a primary healthcare provider, we require you seek the services of one and come back when you qualify as in #2. We are not equipped or staffed to provide primary diagnostic services at this time. We do offer some limited chart documentation with chronic pain patients, and will develop other options for patient with limited medical resources.

4. You will be offered follow up in two forms:

a. You will be given a survey to fill out at the time you receive your actual plastic card from the state to assess your response to the treatment and answer any questions that come up. You may download this survey at any time from our website. Again it is on the right side near the patient application packets. This follow up is REQUIRED to complete your chart. Soon this will be available on line for time stamped documentation.

b. You may, at any time during business hours, come to the office or facilitator and ask to speak with me in person or via video conference free of charge. If you are unable to come in, you may contact me directly by phone with your questions or updates at 989-339-4464. My skype name is Robert.townsend117 and you may contact or messenger me at any time on skype.

5. To avoid confusion, an acceptable degree of medical certainty means:

a. The diagnosis was reached using acceptable medical practice.

b. The diagnosis is based on OBJECTIVE data (x-rays, biopsy reports, lab work) in addition to SUBJECTIVE data (hey doc I hurt). Information generated simply from patient self-reporting (i.e. Affidavits claiming a condition) is not sufficient and will not stand up in court.

c. The workup and diagnosis, treatment program, and progress will be reviewed by the certification doctor to confirm it will stand up to peer review if questioned by medical or non-medical authorities. This means using the same information available to the certification physician, another would reasonably reach the same diagnosis.

 

The state medical boards have also put out guidelines that can be found here:

http://dl.dropbox.co...101571/lara.pdf we fully comply

 

Obtaining a certification is not a difficult process, even when things are done right by the book as we do them. We are working on a procedure to help patients that do not see doctors, but this is a schedule 1 narcotic, and if you cannot show you are suffering or ill enough to go to a doctor and get some medical records, it means we have an uphill battle trying to defend you in court if you have a problem. We have never had a certification overturned, and don’t want to start with YOU.

In addition to your medical records, you will need you Michigan driver’s license or ID.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Dr. Bob

[wozerdozer]

Its been 20 years since my non violent, non drug felony. ill stop over my dead body. If they take this from me they have taken everything and they might as well pull the trigger.

[peanutbutter]

When and if the felon cannot be a caregiver bill passes lansings (LARA) is going to mail each caregiver on the registry a letter informing a change in their status no?

 

Your notice may come in the form of a warrant.

[AmishRnot4ganja]

When and if the felon cannot be a caregiver bill passes lansings (LARA) is going to mail each caregiver on the registry a letter informing a change in their status no?

 

 

If you were legally performing an activity that was sanctioned by the State and the law is changed, they are required to personally notify you of the change in the law, when it will take effect, and what is required of you in order to be in compliance.

[solabeirtan]

It certainly sounds like an opportunistic approach to the certification process. If your real doctor has all your records and is familiar with your conditions he would be the most qualified to have a bonafide doctor/patient relationship . It should be his duty to recommend Canabis for you and for the price of an office visit. Not saying there is no place for you Dr Bob, however there seems not much you can do without the other previous medical records and diagnoses.

 

What is needed for a Certification?

 

To determine if you qualify, you will need to show us that you have one of the qualifying conditions:

 

1. Cancer: A medical record confirming cancer listing type and current therapy

2. Glaucoma: A medical record showing glaucoma and treatment

3. Crohn’s Disease: Recent medical records confirming the diagnosis

4. HIV: Recent blood testing and medication

5. Hepatitis C: Blood work and proof of treatment

6. Nail Patella Syndrome: Confirmation of diagnosis from your doctor

7. ALS: confirmation of diagnosis from doctor

8. Alzheimer's disease: Confirmation of diagnosis

9. Wasting Syndrome: Diagnosis of wasting syndrome from primary care physician

10. Chronic Pain: Confirmation of 3 months of symptoms requiring treatment from a physician/chiropractor

11. Severe Nausea: Confirmation of 3 months of symptoms and treatment for nausea

12. Seizures: Diagnosis of seizures and current anti-seizure medications

13. Muscle Spasms: Confirmation of 3 months of symptoms and current treatment.

 

To document a diagnosis, we need records from your treating physician. We generally ask for 3-5 notes but as above, we simply need enough records to clearly and defensibly confirm you have a qualifying condition. Generally, you can go to your physician and ask to fill out a records release for the last 3-5 office visit notes, MRI reports, etc. and have them faxed to our office at 989-317-3150. Be sure to use a cover sheet that has your contact information. If you need a records release, you can download it from our website. It is in the same location that has the new and renewal application packets on the right side.

 

You will download the appropriate packet, fill out your sections and bring it in to the clinic, or we can provide you with the forms when you come in at no charge. Gather your medical records; bring them WITH you on the day of appointment. The appointment takes about 15 min, plus the time of filling out the paperwork and making copies of everything.

Prior to coming into the clinic, you might want to contact the local compassion club and meet some potential caregivers, unless you are able to grow your own meds. An interactive map is on my website.

 

Note on the bona fide doctor patient relationship:

 

This office uses a 5 part definition for the bona fide doctor/patient relationship and will continue to do so until we are given another definition from the state. Dr. Townsend is an acknowledged expert on the bona fide dr/pt relationship in N. Michigan. He has been consulted by attorneys, government officials, and various organizations to clarify and explain what constitutes a bona fide relationship and what does not, as well as the components and standards of a certification exam.

 

1. There will be a real-time interaction between the patient and the physician, in person. Telemedicine is available for remote or home bound patients but will only be used in justified situations and evaluated case by case for some renewals. It is expected the vast majority of time you will go to a live appointment with me.

2. If the diagnosis of the qualifying condition is made by your primary healthcare provider (md/do/chiropractor) to an acceptable degree of medical certainty, we will review the documentation, confirm the diagnosis and issue the certification.

3. If the diagnosis of the qualifying condition is not confirmed, or you are not under the care of a primary healthcare provider, we require you seek the services of one and come back when you qualify as in #2. We are not equipped or staffed to provide primary diagnostic services at this time. We do offer some limited chart documentation with chronic pain patients, and will develop other options for patient with limited medical resources.

4. You will be offered follow up in two forms:

a. You will be given a survey to fill out at the time you receive your actual plastic card from the state to assess your response to the treatment and answer any questions that come up. You may download this survey at any time from our website. Again it is on the right side near the patient application packets. This follow up is REQUIRED to complete your chart. Soon this will be available on line for time stamped documentation.

b. You may, at any time during business hours, come to the office or facilitator and ask to speak with me in person or via video conference free of charge. If you are unable to come in, you may contact me directly by phone with your questions or updates at 989-339-4464. My skype name is Robert.townsend117 and you may contact or messenger me at any time on skype.

5. To avoid confusion, an acceptable degree of medical certainty means:

a. The diagnosis was reached using acceptable medical practice.

b. The diagnosis is based on OBJECTIVE data (x-rays, biopsy reports, lab work) in addition to SUBJECTIVE data (hey doc I hurt). Information generated simply from patient self-reporting (i.e. Affidavits claiming a condition) is not sufficient and will not stand up in court.

c. The workup and diagnosis, treatment program, and progress will be reviewed by the certification doctor to confirm it will stand up to peer review if questioned by medical or non-medical authorities. This means using the same information available to the certification physician, another would reasonably reach the same diagnosis.

 

Edited August 15, 2012 by solabeirtan

[mibrains]

Its been 20 years since my non violent, non drug felony. ill stop over my dead body. If they take this from me they have taken everything and they might as well pull the trigger.

 

Wozer..

i have met you...

i have hugged you and shaken your hand..

it pains me to read u write these things..

they can never take the hope that fills us with the power to fight..

they may take away our abilities to act or do something my friend.. but they cannot take our spirit or soul...

in life an individual must privately and in themselves alone have control over personal faith in anything and all the obstacles they may face.

 

i know you have been tested in your life.

 

i know i have been.

 

i ask myself sometimes why....why do i still try?

 

truth is... it's because i care.

 

some days i try really hard not to.. because the burden can be so great.. but i care. and so do you. you and i care about so many of the same things... and one of them is to make sure that people find relief.

 

god bless u tonight wozer and i hope u find some peace and relief tonight buddy..

[mibrains]

This is what we use and might serve as a basis for your project John.....

 

 

thanks doc...some very good information here..

[Dr. Bob]

It certainly sounds like an opportunistic approach to the certification process. If your real doctor has all your records and is familiar with your conditions he would be the most qualified to have a bonafide doctor/patient relationship . It should be his duty to recommend Canabis for you and for the price of an office visit. Not saying there is no place for you Dr Bob, however there seems not much you can do without the other previous medical records and diagnoses.

 

An opportunistic approach? Not exactly sure how you mean that. But you are correct you need records on which to base the certification. Not a form you fill out, not a scar, records showing you have the diagnosis and are being treated for it. I have always maintained, and agree with you, that the best certification comes from your primary. The problem arises when your primary won't or can't write the cert, then you come to someone like me that requires this of EVERYONE and has a reputation from doing it correctly. There are other doctors like that out there, so it isn't a plug for me.

 

The problem many have is the lack of records. There is only ONE way to deal with that, establish the diagnosis yourself. That's right, you order the tests, the xrays, and follow the patient long enough that any doctor looking at your notes from your visitS with the patient would come to the conclusion the diagnosis was proven. That takes time and you have to see the patient several times.

 

What is not going to be acceptable is the 'affidavit' style clinics where you come in and report unconfirmed symptoms simply to get the signature on your paperwork. You cannot just send a check in the mail and get a cert from a doc you never heard of and never was in contact with. Things any typical person would think was 'fishy'.

 

Transparency is important. On my site, you will see links to my license and controlled substance registration, right there for you to see. Folks know who I am, how to find me directly, and can check my credentials. Ever notice there are clinics out there that never identify the doctor? Ever wonder why? If you ask are you told to call or pm? A clinic is a doctor, not an office worker filling out forms. Know who the doctor is. Be sure you see him or her. Bring records.

[mibrains]

1) is my doctor here? in the room to meet with me and discuss my condition? are they licensed and in good standing in the state of Michigan?

 

2) do i have good records and am i able to substantiate my condition? (summary - thank u dr bob)

 

3)

 

note - i will take this subject to a new thread so we dont get off topic. this can be a very nice reference list for new patients.

[solabeirtan]

An opportunistic approach? Not exactly sure how you mean that. But you are correct you need records on which to base the certification. Not a form you fill out, not a scar, records showing you have the diagnosis and are being treated for it. I have always maintained, and agree with you, that the best certification comes from your primary. The problem arises when your primary won't or can't write the cert, then you come to someone like me that requires this of EVERYONE and has a reputation from doing it correctly. There are other doctors like that out there, so it isn't a plug for me.

 

The problem many have is the lack of records. There is only ONE way to deal with that, establish the diagnosis yourself. That's right, you order the tests, the xrays, and follow the patient long enough that any doctor looking at your notes from your visitS with the patient would come to the conclusion the diagnosis was proven. That takes time and you have to see the patient several times.

 

What is not going to be acceptable is the 'affidavit' style clinics where you come in and report unconfirmed symptoms simply to get the signature on your paperwork. You cannot just send a check in the mail and get a cert from a doc you never heard of and never was in contact with. Things any typical person would think was 'fishy'.

 

Transparency is important. On my site, you will see links to my license and controlled substance registration, right there for you to see. Folks know who I am, how to find me directly, and can check my credentials. Ever notice there are clinics out there that never identify the doctor? Ever wonder why? If you ask are you told to call or pm? A clinic is a doctor, not an office worker filling out forms. Know who the doctor is. Be sure you see him or her. Bring records.

 

If you have a qualifying condition and the documentation to establish the fact in a court of law you would be covered. That was one of the reasons to pass the law, to help people that were prohibited previously to help overcome the adverse effects of their conditions and get some relief . However the cost of legal representation required to establish this precedent would be prohibitive for a single person, hence the easy way out get a Cert Doc.

 

Like say their were NO Doctors that would sign certs [like April 2008]

 

Of course then we are at the mercy of the Jaws of JUSTICE.

 

So the law could help you [as passed 12/2008] if you have a qualifying condition.

 

To get [more] legal you need the original documentation from your PCP [your bonafide Doctor]

 

and even more legal you need Recomedation from your Certification Doc

 

even more legal you need send SoM $200 with above required docs

 

even with all of this though you could still be bit by the JAWS...and need a $$$$ transfusion.

 

Most would concur the best remedy is to anti-up and enjoy some peace of mind. Kinda like putting a down payment on a better quality of life .

[Dr. Bob]

This is wrong on several levels, let me see if I can sort it out a bit.

 

If you have a qualifying condition and the documentation to establish the fact in a court of law you would be covered. That was one of the reasons to pass the law, to help people that were prohibited previously to help overcome the adverse effects of their conditions and get some relief . However the cost of legal representation required to establish this precedent would be prohibitive for a single person, hence the easy way out get a Cert Doc.

 

You are correct that it is very expensive to try and prove your qualifications in court, it is also NOT the time to prove your qualifications. You are required to be evaluated and certified by a physician. That is the only route to being able to use cannabis. If your doctor will not participate in the program, you can seek the services of an outside specialist.

 

Like say their were NO Doctors that would sign certs [like April 2008]

 

There is no part of the state more than 75 miles from an area that contains a certification clinic now.

 

Of course then we are at the mercy of the Jaws of JUSTICE.

 

So the law could help you [as passed 12/2008] if you have a qualifying condition.

 

To get [more] legal you need the original documentation from your PCP [your bonafide Doctor]

 

Your PCP is not the only bonafide doctor you can see. If you see a doctor in the course of a bonafide relationship and your current condition is evaluated, qualified under the law and the doctor states you would benefit from cannabis, you can get a card and enjoy the protections of the law. The medical board has clearly defined the components for a bonafide relationship.

 

and even more legal you need Recomedation from your Certification Doc

 

even more legal you need send SoM $200 with above required docs

 

even with all of this though you could still be bit by the JAWS...and need a $$$$ transfusion.

 

sorry but the above really doesn't make sense, I have no idea what you are saying.

 

Most would concur the best remedy is to anti-up and enjoy some peace of mind. Kinda like putting a down payment on a better quality of life

 

If by this you mean go to a doctor, have a bonafide relationship with that doctor, get qualified, and follow up AND participate in the registry, I would tend to agree.

[solabeirtan]

This is wrong on several levels, let me see if I can sort it out a bit.

 

So the Director of the Michigan Bureau of Health Professionals and Author of this document is a Chiropractor ? Since chiropractors are not licensed to write medical prescriptions or perform major surgery in the U.S is he professionally qualified even if he has the Authority of the State?

 

As far as the bonafide relationship it exists with your PCP and the addition of any other participants would represent a step to Transitional Care.

As such it will have an effect on the original bonafide relationship {PCP}

ie:

Transitions of patients between health care practitioners may decrease the quality of care in the time it takes to reestablish proper doctor-patient relationships. Generally, the doctor-patient relationship is facilitated by continuity of care in regard to attending personnel. Special strategies of integrated care may be required where multiple health care providers are involved, including horizontal integration (linking similar levels of care, e.g. multiprofessional teams) and vertical integration (linking different levels of care, e.g. primary, secondary and tertiary care). Doctor patient_relationship

 

 

I'm not accusing you personally Doc but anyway you look at it it's Professional Abuse since it expoits a patients vulnerability. Certainly not in their best interest to incur the excessive financial hardship. ie of having to have redundant Docs, etc. What about truth and informed consent ?

Professional_abuse

Edited August 16, 2012 by solabeirtan

[Dr. Bob]

I think you have some valid points, but lack a view of the overall picture.

 

As an internist, I clearly was a primary care physician. There were many things I did personally for my patient- routine medical care, hospital/ICU care, echocaridography, colonoscopy, stress testing, etc. But there were also procedures I didn't do- cardiac cath, dialysis, surgery. I sent my patients to specialists for those. All bonafide, all involved in continuity of care. Just different parts of the overall care of patients.

 

Certification is no different. If the primary care doctor does it, great. If they prefer to not do it, there are specialists that do. The kicker is the politics and outside interference of hospitals/insurance companies/medical groups and the resultant 'punishment' of patients for getting cards. Those of us that are the professionals of certifications are working towards two goals- to obtain most of our patients by physician referral and eventually to educate primary care doctors about cannabis and have them take care of their own patients rather than send them to us. Then cannabis will be mainstreamed and we can better use our talents elsewhere. But for now that is a worthy goal of my practice and others like me.

 

Your posting does reflect some underlying resentment of physicians, and no I don't think it is directed at me. The problem is you are operating from the premise that this is all unnecessary expense to the patients. In a way I agree, but until it is fully accepted and allowed by primary care, it is a significant path to certification for many. No one is forcing you to get certified, it is something you want to do for your personal comfort and safety from prosecution. I would be a little less resentful that in order to obtain an elective certification the law requires you to jump through a few hoops. Folks don't seem to object to providing documentation that they are on medicaid or SSI/SSD in order to get $75 off their registration fee, why is there resistance to providing medical records to justify the certification in the first place?

[Timmahh]

PEOPLE.. COMMITTEE? Does that word mean something to you? IT SHOULD

 

this was Committee. ie 4 senators. 3 Repuklicants, and 1 Demoncrat (which only nayed 2 of the 4 bills).

 

So why is it Important, that word COMMITTEE? simply because Committee does not mean SENATE FLOOR VOTE... I will now GUESS the bills have to have the implementation of Immediate Effect in Committee to be offered to the Senate floor. Again im guessing here, but the bills came out of Committee. They have to yet GO to the Senate floor for a FULL Senate Vote (where they need the actual 75% to pass the Senate).

2 bills were given amendments and sent back to the House of Reps. while the other 2 were moved ready to be presented to the Senate Floor.

 

So NOTHING in the MMM Act has changed, except the MSC rulings, and the most RECENT CoA ruling on the County restrictions.

 

 

 

We are Just getting into the 3rd quarter, and this is a 4 quarter Game... But its the end of the game, which ALWAYS moves faster.

 

Now is the TIme to Tie up the Senate Phones with 1000s of calls every day, Bring their EMAIL Servers to a crawls with 1000s of emails a day, and be sure to Pack their OFFICES and TEACUP Party meetings at Every chance possible... Let them Know their JOB in November Depends on their Votes....

 

At any rate, the Repuklicants have fugged up SO Much since 2010, they will be Sweepingly removed in November. Make no mistake they Smell their own blood in the air, and are working themselves into a frenzy to try to get their Crap done Prior to November at all costs.

[Timmahh]

Blame me .. seems to work for most folks

 

Sarcasm seems to be lost on some.

[LongHairBri]

Sarcasm seems to be lost on some.

 

good to see you back Tim

[Dr. Bob]

Didn't notice he was gone.

[abe supercro]

Timm, Bob, Bri... good afternoon all. Nothing really to add, just a hello.



[Dr. Bob]

Hello Abe, nice to see you.

[peanutbutter]

PEOPLE.. COMMITTEE? Does that word mean something to you? IT SHOULD

 

this was Committee. ie 4 senators. 3 Repuklicants, and 1 Demoncrat (which only nayed 2 of the 4 bills).

 

So why is it Important, that word COMMITTEE? simply because Committee does not mean SENATE FLOOR VOTE... I will now GUESS the bills have to have the implementation of Immediate Effect in Committee to be offered to the Senate floor. Again im guessing here, but the bills came out of Committee. They have to yet GO to the Senate floor for a FULL Senate Vote (where they need the actual 75% to pass the Senate).

2 bills were given amendments and sent back to the House of Reps. while the other 2 were moved ready to be presented to the Senate Floor.

 

So NOTHING in the MMM Act has changed, except the MSC rulings, and the most RECENT CoA ruling on the County restrictions.

 

 

 

We are Just getting into the 3rd quarter, and this is a 4 quarter Game... But its the end of the game, which ALWAYS moves faster.

 

Now is the TIme to Tie up the Senate Phones with 1000s of calls every day, Bring their EMAIL Servers to a crawls with 1000s of emails a day, and be sure to Pack their OFFICES and TEACUP Party meetings at Every chance possible... Let them Know their JOB in November Depends on their Votes....

 

At any rate, the Repuklicants have fugged up SO Much since 2010, they will be Sweepingly removed in November. Make no mistake they Smell their own blood in the air, and are working themselves into a frenzy to try to get their Crap done Prior to November at all costs.

 

OK .. I'll try again.

 

This got kicked out of the Judiciary committee.

 

The next step, according to Tim Beck who got it from Rick Jones, is for the bills to go to a conference committee to work the bills over in the attempt ot blend the House and Senate versions.

 

No public input .. just good old boys.

 

From there the same bills go for floor votes in both House and Senate.

 

These bills already passed the House before going over to the Senate.

 

We won't get to testify before either house before the votes.

 

The bills will not require the signature of the governor.

 

Do you wish to understand the impact before or after they pass?

[peanutbutter]

The immediate next step is a Senate floor vote. I think he might be skipping over that part.

 

Or it could be misdirection.

[+Malamute]

Don't they teach civics classes in school anymore?.. Heh... j/k

 

Anyhow,

 

A Students Guide to the Legislative process

 

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/StudentGuide.pdf

 

 

Pertinent parts are pages 12-20ish but it seems everyone should read this cover to cover.

[peanutbutter]

6 members. Three from the house and 3 from the senate.

 

two of three from each house will be republican and one democrat.

 

Please see if you can get better quality information tonight.

 

The republican county convention starts in a half hour for Washtenaw county.

[peanutbutter]

From Tim? I doubt it. He is probably just thinking of it as a forgone conclusion because of the vote count on SB 505.

 

No .. from Jones.