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http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/41231-must-read-the-writers-of-our-law-left-nothing-out/

 

I started this topic that relates to my plants being out on my deck and how the law totally allows me to do so.

 

It is a must read. Especially for those of you who think all the "enclosed locked facility" crap. There is nothing in the law that precludes you from taking your plants out. Yes you can.

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http://michiganmedic...ft-nothing-out/

 

I started this topic that relates to my plants being out on my deck and how the law totally allows me to do so.

 

It is a must read. Especially for those of you who think all the "enclosed locked facility" crap. There is nothing in the law that precludes you from taking your plants out. Yes you can.

Joel you are a genius!!!

 

The section 4 defense makes the states efforts by LARA to caregivers null and void!!! I see a hot time in the ole town tonight.

Lawyers get it together cause this is HOT!!! And guess what all of the purposed amendments are subject to the same scrutiny.

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seriously?

 

good luck with that defense in front of a judge and prosecutor......

 

any patients reading this topic seeking general knowledge be warned...

 

"level one security notice"

 

DO NOT LEAVE YOUR CANNABIS PLANTS OUTSIDE UNLOCKED.

 

please.

 

ever.

 

if you want to help to avoid ending up in a court of law explaining why then

 

please please please please consider to..

 

KEEP THEM INSIDE AND LOCKED UP AT ALL TIMES...

 

i must recommend you try to error on the side of caution...

 

this is my personal opinion only of course and anyone and everyone is welcome to do as they wish and see fit...

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http://courts.michigan.gov/supremecourt/clerk/11-12-Term-Opinions/142695.pdf

 

S T A T E O F M I C H I G A N

SUPREME COURT

 

LARRY STEVEN KING

 

In May 2009, police officers received an anonymous tip that marijuana was

growing in the backyard of defendant Larry King’s home in Owosso, Michigan. The

officers went to the residence and observed, from a neighbor’s driveway, marijuana

plants growing inside a chain-link dog kennel that was wrapped on three sides with a

plastic tarp. The officers then spoke with King, who showed them his “registry

identification card” for medical use of marijuana that had been issued April 20, 2009.

The officers asked to see the marijuana plants, and King consented. Using a key, he

unlocked the padlock on the kennel. Inside the kennel were six marijuana plants. The

kennel was six feet tall, was not anchored to the ground, and was open on top........

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Hey Brain,

 

I didn't write the law, but I do admire those who did.

 

Haven't you ever wondered why there is only one section devoted to where plants are kept? No questions as to why no language was included to allow you to take them out to spray, or transplant, or any other of the many reasons we could have to move the plants.

 

That is because they did. The language is irrefutable. It can only be interpreted one way. Go ahead. Prove me wrong.

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sorry joel

Hey Brain,

 

I didn't write the law, but I do admire those who did.

 

Haven't you ever wondered why there is only one section devoted to where plants are kept? No questions as to why no language was included to allow you to take them out to spray, or transplant, or any other of the many reasons we could have to move the plants.

 

That is because they did. The language is irrefutable. It can only be interpreted one way. Go ahead. Prove me wrong.

 

sorry Joel...

 

i apologize if i somehow offended you.

 

however.. coming here and advising people to leave their plants outside unlocked or unattended in today's atmosphere is absolutely not cool..

you might consider keeping your "secret you didn't wanna share" to yourself until after you have defended yourself successfully in court..

 

i am not trying to offend you or anyone else..only to protect new folks reading this...

 

LOCK YOUR PLANTS UP

 

for maximum protections..

 

to offer any other advise is not warranted and is potentially reckless.

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King did not have an "enclosed locked facility". He was relying on that crappy chain link fence, and that doesn't do it.

 

If you really want to grow outdoors, have an "enclosed locked facility" indoors. Keep your plants there at night. This is to be their "permanent home".

 

Every morning, bring them outdoors, fenced, unfenced, it matters not. This is their temporary placement.

 

At night, bring them in and put them in their "permanent home".

 

It may take a court case or two until the language of the law knocks some prosecutorial arse, but like it or not. my interpretation will eventually prevail.

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i understand your position Joel..

 

and i empathize with your plight..

 

if i can help in any way with your defense i would love to do so..

 

that being said....please use absolute caution when representing this as a valid defense until its proven..new people need the lowest risk behaviors to follow...

 

i can understand your position and i wish you the best in holding it in a courtroom...you may have a very long battle in front of you...

 

please keep us informed as to the disposition of your case as the time passes and you progress through all the various legal phases of a courtroom battle.

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Don't get me wrong. I am not advocating growing your plants outdoors. I don't. I wouldn't. I think it is irresposible.

 

Not because of the legal issues, but staying under the radar is important.

 

You have criminals out there that will kill you dead for your plants. Countless ignorant cops who wouldn't know a law if it bit them in the arse.

 

All I am saying is that there is a defense for having your plants somewhere someone else thinks is not legal.

 

Once this language gets accepted in even one court, there will be a precident, and criminal intent goes bye bye.

 

I wasn't offended at all. I know you are looking out for everyones best interest. Don't confuse my explaining the law with advocating problems.

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I don't want you to think I am beating a dead horse, but if you are caught with a plant in your yard, or porch, or deck. Don't act like you were caught with your hand in the cookie jar, tell the cops you have every right to have it there. Make sure it get into the police report. Quote one of examples of what "kept" means.

 

A prosecutor may still go after you, but a judge will immediately recognize that you truly believed you were right in having the plant where ever you had it. Criminal Intent goes out the window, and without it, there was no crime.

 

Just a suggestion. But it can't hurt.

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lets not forget about clones, do they magically appear in the grow room or are they still acquired and transported home? since some acquire and transport them, are they then guilty of not having them in a locked enclosed area during the transporting? or to and from the car?

 

ok yes lets discuss clones...

mine have never left my "facility"

if your compliant and following pure safe behavior then yep.. they never leave the house... they dont need to go for a ride around the block to stretch their legs..

produce your own genetic copies

and do so in your own space

 

to share genetics rather by seed, clone or dried cured flowers is a separate issue all together and we can start a thread to debate the process for that if we feel its necessary

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lets not forget about clones, do they magically appear in the grow room or are they still acquired and transported home? since some acquire and transport them, are they then guilty of not having them in a locked enclosed area during the transporting? or to and from the car?

 

Another of the things that could have been written into the law, but was not.

 

I believe that by putting that "kept" word into the language was the writer's answer to all those "what ifs" they could not anticipate. Smart, really smart.

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I don't want you to think I am beating a dead horse, but if you are caught with a plant in your yard, or porch, or deck. Don't act like you were caught with your hand in the cookie jar, tell the cops you have every right to have it there. Make sure it get into the police report. Quote one of examples of what "kept" means.

 

A prosecutor may still go after you, but a judge will immediately recognize that you truly believed you were right in having the plant where ever you had it. Criminal Intent goes out the window, and without it, there was no crime.

 

Just a suggestion. But it can't hurt.

 

your not beating a dead horse by any means Joel..

 

lets keep this really simple..

 

to avoid the problem of explaining why you have a plant outside... DON'T PUT ONE THERE.....

 

i mean to say... follow the Supreme court and the legislators and keep the plants locked up out of sight and out of harms way...

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lets not forget about clones, do they magically appear in the grow room or are they still acquired and transported home? since some acquire and transport them, are they then guilty of not having them in a locked enclosed area during the transporting? or to and from the car?

 

 

The sponsor of HB 4851 must think this is an issue as well. The proposed language there addresses some of this.

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This scenario is one you could expect in a perfect world.. The fact of the matter is until it is heard in front of a judge its just a theory.

The Judge, can save your life or take it away, you can have the best attorney money can buy the best defense you could ever present and still lose.

I thought of every possible way to prove I was not doing anything wrong when I was in court, If the Judge is against marijuana your best story about how YOU perceive the law could very well be a drastic difference in how the courts perceive it. You should remember that it spite of all the State laws, you are breaking Federal law in every way by possession of a marijuana plant.

That not to scare anyone its the truth, and the courts use that as their trump card. It happens they do it will do it again and again.

"if there's doubt throw it out' KEEP YOUR PLANTS LOCKED UP!

Good luck, I hope everything turns out the way you believe it will.

Trix
:bong2:

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John i think i said "acquire" not take them for a ride around the block, there is a difference. many patients dont have the means to clone there own plants so they seek out clones, we see it on the site every day. its these people im talking about not a patient cloning their own plants...

 

yes i was being sarcastic...

my apologies...

my point is..

anyone can clone plants.. and maintain a near perfect success rate....

 

exchanging genetics is a separate issue...

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The sponsor of HB 4851 must think this is an issue as well. The proposed language there addresses some of this.

 

thank you and yes i totally agree... they are trying to address this i believe in some of the proposed legislation...

 

the proposed legislation seeks to help define what is a truly safe and secure facility.... this is actually one area i support them defining more clearly as i would love to use the "sun" and have an outdoor facility... and feel totally safe and well defined...

 

i know we are talking semantics to some degree in this thread Joel.. and i do hope you are successful in your planned defense....

 

let us know if we can help you and keep us informed as to your progress in your proceedings.

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Sorry, but I like the language of the law just fine.

 

You want to see trouble? Let them add the words "at all times" after enclosed locked facility. That's when they have you dead to rights, with nothing left to do but surrender.

 

We should be fighting any effort to change the language.

 

Before you go off and change the language, you should learn it. It works.

Edited by Joel
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(edit: whoops, it wasnt in king opinion) one of the court opinions i read addressed the liberal language of the mmma. if a term isnt defined specifically in the law, the common-sense (or dictionary) definition is used. i think it was a CoA opinion but i cant remember.

 

therefor we go back to Joels correct common sense and dictionary interpretation of the word 'kept'.

 

well done joel. you read the law, you understood the law, you understood the MSC opinion, you got it.

Edited by teethpain
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I have a hard time imagining that the prosecution will be able to find 12 people who will find Joel's actions "criminal". A completely innocent act with no criminal intent. The whole idea of charging him with a crime is preposterous. It is completely legal, under Michigan law, for Joel to possess the plant, but he can't take it out on his porch to hose it down? Come on...

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I am being fought over this and I don't get it. Why?

 

The manipulative prosecutors are telling us that our plants have to be locked up or they'll throw us in jail.

 

That is a load of crap! There is nowhere in the law where that is said.

 

I repeat. Nowhere in the law does it state that our plant need to be locked up at all times. Nowhere!

 

There is only one place that spells out where we are to keep our plants. Section 4.

 

Sec. 4. (a) A qualifying patient who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, provided that the qualifying patient possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana, and, if the qualifying patient has not specified that a primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility. Any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, and unusable roots shall also be allowed under state law and shall not be included in this amount

 

THE PROSECUTORS ARE LYING ABOUT THE MEANING OF THAT PHRASE!

 

I have a car to sell, so I put an ad in the classifieds that states "1999 Chevy Blazer, low miles, kept in a locked garage twelve months of the year."

 

Does a reader of this ad expect a car with virtually no miles on it? Not by any means. She expects that it was driven to work every day, driven to the market, perhaps even driven to Florida on vacation. What she does expect, is that when the car was brought home, it was locked in my garage.

 

Or.

 

I have always kept my sugar in a locked pantry. Is it made a lie because I took it out to make a cake? Is it no longer true because I take it out to put some in my coffee? Of course not. After I put some sugar into my coffee, I put it back into my "locked pantry".

 

Or

 

I keep my pencils in the left drawer. Does taking a pencil out to write a note make the first statement a lie? NO.

 

How about: I have twenty four marijuana plants I keep in an enclosed locked facility. Yesterday, I took one of them out to my deck so I could spray it with insecticide. I left it outside to dry. Later on that day I rinsed it with water to remove the residue. When it had dried, I then put it back in the room, and locked the door.

Wednesday I brought one of my plants to the horticulturalist because I saw spots on the leaves. She told me it was a good thing that I did, as the plant was infested with spider mites. She sold me a really good treatment, and told me to keep the plant in quaratine for four days. I left it on my deck for four days and then put it back in with the other plants, and locked the door.

 

Did I break the law at any time? Not in the slightest!

 

The statement "kept in a closed locked facilty" only indicates that you are to have a permanent home for your plants when you are not doing something else with them. It is not ambiguous in any way. It is what it is.

 

If the wording were changed to read "you must keep your plants in an enclosed locked facility at all times", it would then mean what the prosecutors want you to think it means now.

 

Take care they don't get that addition put into the law.

 

You would be wise to remember this if you should ever be caught with a plant on you porch or deck.

 

Should something like this happen, keep calm. If they question why you have the plant out there, you should not admit any wrong doing, but rather insist that you have every right to have the plant out there. If nothing else you will be casting doubt that there was any criminal intent in your having it out there.

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joel,you may want to set yourself up a legal defense fund...lol..i don't see them (LEO)letting you air your plants on the front lawn for a few hours every day...now i maybe wrong, but if you try it and they say it's okey dokey ..get back to me...lol..bp

ps,,,please note that the law doesn't state that you must keep your plants in an enclosed locked facility most of the time...bp

Edited by budpuffer
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