Sent A Cashier's Check, How Do I Prove It's Cashed?

[digi7al]

I sent a cashier's check to the state for my registration fee and can't get proof it was cashed. I might be able to talk to my bank some more to get proof but avoiding that. I'm wondering how I would get into clubs until my card arrives? And how quickly do the cards get mailed out now?

[The Digital Nomad]

cards are variable, some are saying its coming out within weeks.

 

the cashier check is a problem, you need proof of it's being cashed to use it for the '21 day rule'.

I would make an effort to obtain a copy.

[Birdman]

Two friends got their cards within 14 days of the submission date on the certified mail yesterday.

[Restorium2]

Always use certified mail. Legally, the count starts when LARA received the application.

[t-pain]

my friend used a money order and got his card in 15 days last month.

he used certified mail to know exactly when it arrived.

 

some clubs allow people with the proper papers and no cards , but you'll have to call around.

[The Digital Nomad]

Well a club cannot just accept you on the basis you sent it your paperwork, via the registered mail. We don't have the critical piece for validating your paperwork - the cashed check indicating the exact date your application was opened. This is from my experience at working security for club events. They count 21 days from check cashed, not 21 days from receipt of mail, this was to ensure your mail was opened (mail them an empty envelope and use the signed registered mail to bluff your way in to a purchase or cardholder event?)

 

The cashed check has a stamp on the back that we use to verify it is being handled by the MDCH.

[Restorium2]

Well a club cannot just accept you on the basis you sent it your paperwork, via the registered mail. We don't have the critical piece for validating your paperwork - the cashed check indicating the exact date your application was opened. This is from my experience at working security for club events. They count 21 days from check cashed, not 21 days from receipt of mail, this was to ensure your mail was opened (mail them an empty envelope and use the signed registered mail to bluff your way in to a purchase or cardholder event?)

 

The cashed check has a stamp on the back that we use to verify it is being handled by the MDCH.

Makes no sense at all. The fact that you have proof you sent it is what your attorney would stand on. So any club that wants the check instead of the real deal, proof of delivery, is blowing smoke up your back side. That's what my attorney says. Why don't clubs ask attorneys what is best like I did?

[Restorium2]

Just to be very clear on this;

 

DN QUOTE: count 21 days from check cashed, not 21 days from receipt of mail, this was to ensure your mail was opened

 

My attorney says it doesn't matter when they open it. Makes no difference with the day count. You can't be penalized for something they didn't do. It's on them what they do after they receive the application. Just like cashing the check is secondary. This is from a very good attorney.

[Restorium2]

Well a club cannot just accept you on the basis you sent it your paperwork, via the registered mail. We don't have the critical piece for validating your paperwork - the cashed check indicating the exact date your application was opened. This is from my experience at working security for club events. They count 21 days from check cashed, not 21 days from receipt of mail, this was to ensure your mail was opened (mail them an empty envelope and use the signed registered mail to bluff your way in to a purchase or cardholder event?)

 

The cashed check has a stamp on the back that we use to verify it is being handled by the MDCH.

Also,why would you have sent an empty envelope when you are holding a copy of your application in your hand when trying to access a club? Bluff? Makes no sense at all. You have a real looking application but you didn't send it in????

[Ezrah]

Makes no sense at all. The fact that you have proof you sent it is what your attorney would stand on. So any club that wants the check instead of the real deal, proof of delivery, is blowing smoke up your back side. That's what my attorney says. Why don't clubs ask attorneys what is best like I did?

 

I agree that the law states it is 21 days from when it arrives, I think a check bash date has become common practice because for all a club knows you sent an empty envelope certified mail. Bottom line is till you get your card its best to have both cashed check and like a previous person said if its a money order with some digging or going back to the originator you can get proof of cashing that along with the proof of arrival is key. Please also call any club before hand so you are sure to have what they need, keep in mind they are doing there best and they are deciding best practice on proof of certification to keep the entire group within the law.

 

Regards, Ez

[Restorium2]

I agree that the law states it is 21 days from when it arrives, I think a check bash date has become common practice because for all a club knows you sent an empty envelope certified mail. Bottom line is till you get your card its best to have both cashed check and like a previous person said if its a money order with some digging or going back to the originator you can get proof of cashing that along with the proof of arrival is key. Please also call any club before hand so you are sure to have what they need, keep in mind they are doing there best and they are deciding best practice on proof of certification to keep the entire group within the law.

 

Regards, Ez

Definitely good to have both. But this empty envelope idea isn't very well thought out. You have to have the application copy to get in, so how is it that you sent in an empty envelope if you have a real application all filled out? Sounds like something Schuete would think up. Why stand in the way if the patient has his/her duckies in a row? The dispensary isn't liable for fraud like that. Do you realize how easy it is to forge a cancelled check? Easier than sending in a empty envelope certified mail to the State, committing mail fraud, and defrauding the State using their own name and address. Let the cops prosecute them if they did this. It should not be forefront in the concerns of a dispensary/club.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Restorium2

[Birdman]

I'm wondering who started this "21 days from the date the check was cashed" rule? The people at LARA told me the paperwork is just as legal as the card 20 days from when they recieve the application if you do not recieve a denial letter within that time. It is also clearly written on the LARA website and says nothing at all about 21 days, or cashed checks.

Is this 21 day cashed check rule something the dispenseries started?

[The Digital Nomad]

Each club sets their own rules, but by visit I found them to be the same.

http://legislature.m...x?mcl-333-26426

 

"© The department shall verify the information contained in an application or renewal submitted pursuant to this section, and shall approve or deny an application or renewal within 15 days of receiving it. The department may deny an application or renewal only if the applicant did not provide the information required pursuant to this section, or if the department determines that the information provided was falsified. Rejection of an application or renewal is considered a final department action, subject to judicial review. Jurisdiction and venue for judicial review are vested in the circuit court for the county of Ingham.

(d) The department shall issue a registry identification card to the primary caregiver, if any, who is named in a qualifying patient's approved application; provided that each qualifying patient can have no more than 1 primary caregiver, and a primary caregiver may assist no more than 5 qualifying patients with their medical use of marihuana.

(e) The department shall issue registry identification cards within 5 days of approving an application or renewal

 

So either a lawyer told them, or otherwise all clubs felt safe by having the rule -

If the check was cashed - it meant the envelope with the application was opened. Merely signing for registered mail - did not meet the requirement of 'processing the application itself.' This was developed at a time when many clubs had members who were waiting months for their actual cards.

 

the one flaw - it required the person to be honest - to present the letter of denial - which would have been sent within the 15 days of opening your mail and viewing your application.

 

don't blame me, that's what they do.

[The Digital Nomad]

Also,why would you have sent an empty envelope when you are holding a copy of your application in your hand when trying to access a club? Bluff? Makes no sense at all. You have a real looking application but you didn't send it in????

 

Don't blame me, but working security I can tell you all kinds of tricks I saw at the front door admission to club events.

 

People would show the registered mail, the original applications, doctor rec. The final protection that clubs wanted to see was the check cashed with the STAMP ON THE BACK BY THE MDCH/LARA. That stamp on the check, cashing your check was considered your application being processed. There is a difference between 'received' and processed.

 

Take it up with the clubs you visit.

[Mememe]

Cashed check doesn't equal paperwork valid. Check gets cashed regardless if you are legit or not.

[Restorium2]

I'm wondering who started this "21 days from the date the check was cashed" rule? The people at LARA told me the paperwork is just as legal as the card 20 days from when they recieve the application if you do not recieve a denial letter within that time. It is also clearly written on the LARA website and says nothing at all about 21 days, or cashed checks.

Is this 21 day cashed check rule something the dispenseries started?

I have a good idea who started it. Been fighting it since there was a waiting period. I don't even go to dispensaries. Bad info is something all of us need to fight whether it directly effects us or not. It always comes back to bite you later.

[Timmahh]

you dont need a registration card, you dont need to wait 21 days honestly. If you have your Dr Recomendation, you are Legal. This is per the MSC ruling, making it clear that the Registration with the State MMP is ONLY RECOMMENDED, and only required to stand on a sec 4 defense. Otherwise you are looking at a Sec 8 defense.

 

So in reality, if you have a Signed Dr Recommendation, by the Act, if a Club or such will accept that Drs Certification, then that is with in the law with the understanding that a Section 8 Defense is what will likely be used. Unsure how this would go down with a Registered and un Registered Pt/CG, but i would think the Registered would assert a sec 4, but both would probably have to use the Sec 8.

 

 

Lets not forget we have Registered and Un Registered Pts and CGs... So if your not a Registering with the state to be a Registered Pt, you are a PT, so Long as you have your Dr Recommendation.... without the Dr. Recommendation, you would be a criminal under the PHC. So how does the 21 day rule effect someone that IS NOT registering with the State? fact is, it Doesn't. So the only way it actually effects someone applying to the registry is with the use of a sec 4 defense, opposed to a section 8 defense, should there be an arrest after the Dr. Certification, but prior to the arrival of the Registry card. And once the Card Does arrive, it then envokes the section 4 Defense ability for that card holder of the Registry of the MMM Act.

 

 

In respect to the Registry itself via LARA, the clock starts the day they RECEIVE the App. thus why to use Certified Mail.

from that day the state has 15 days to issue a card, or a denial letter. To allow for transport time via mail of card or denial letter (which will be sent via Certified Mail from LARA), you end up with the 21 day rule.

 

Fact of the matter is where the registry is concerned, if they get your app, today, and cash your check tomorrow, the action of the State Depositing the Check, indicates they have accepted the app, and the terms of the Contract of one Mi Medical Cannabis Card for the cost of 100.00. Once a check is cashed or deposited, a contract is considered Signed and Viable and you should be considered a legal card holder...

 

To think anyone believes they can't be arrested by overzealous LEO and Government agencies, would be foolish, but to not do what is legal for fear of being arrested, is an oxy moron.

[The Digital Nomad]

why blame clubs for requesting as much evidence as they can. shrugs. Its amazing some of the crap they put up with.

[Birdman]

My new card just arrived. 13 days from paperwork submission. (9 business days)

[Ezrah]

why blame clubs for requesting as much evidence as they can. shrugs. Its amazing some of the crap they put up with.

 

I agree I know we are doing our best as we support folks at the Co-Op I am part of, but some times things become common practice and not necessarily legally required. Which I am not necessarily opposed to, I do a lot of things that are above and beyond both supporting patients and helping to protect there rights. There is a difference between being technically within the law and going above and beyond to never even to have to go to court, or interact with LARA, or alike. For me many in law enforcement are not clear on the law, so I am always going to do all I can to help patients not even be in a position where they are defending there rights. Also in most cases the cards are coming very quickly so really in many ways this is becoming less and less of an issue.

 

Warm regards, Ez

[Restorium2]

I agree I know we are doing our best as we support folks at the Co-Op I am part of, but some times things become common practice and not necessarily legally required. Which I am not necessarily opposed to, I do a lot of things that are above and beyond both supporting patients and helping to protect there rights. There is a difference between being technically within the law and going above and beyond to never even to have to go to court, or interact with LARA, or alike. For me many in law enforcement are not clear on the law, so I am always going to do all I can to help patients not even be in a position where they are defending there rights. Also in most cases the cards are coming very quickly so really in many ways this is becoming less and less of an issue.

 

Warm regards, Ez

This is clear. The waiting starts from the day the application is submitted. The check cashed means absolutely nothing at all. They cash them before they even look at the forms. They cash them if you qualify or not. Going above and beyond, as you put it, is more like placing false hoops for patients to jump through for no good reason. It doesn't keep you, or the patient, out of court. It was a mistake from the very first time anyone made it a qualification to enter the club/dispensary. No sense in keeping up a failed policy that doesn't make sense. Make the first steps to fix this. Don't just follow blindly into the ditch. Straighten this out. Be the first to understand completely how wrong the practice is and do something about it instead of defending it. Show patients you care and would like to get things right. Show improvements. Show that you ARE opposed to bad past practices and you want to move forward and improve things for patients.

[Birdman]

I just called Western Union and my M.O. was cashed the day after the card issue date. I was never concerned and just called today because the check cashing date seems to be a really big issue for some strange reason. Certified Mail, keep the reciept, your legal in 20 days after the application arrives if they don't send you a denial. Good luck to all and hopefully the waiting for months are over.

[Ezrah]

This is clear. The waiting starts from the day the application is submitted. The check cashed means absolutely nothing at all. They cash them before they even look at the forms. They cash them if you qualify or not. Going above and beyond, as you put it, is more like placing false hoops for patients to jump through for no good reason. It doesn't keep you, or the patient, out of court. It was a mistake from the very first time anyone made it a qualification to enter the club/dispensary. No sense in keeping up a failed policy that doesn't make sense. Make the first steps to fix this. Don't just follow blindly into the ditch. Straighten this out. Be the first to understand completely how wrong the practice is and do something about it instead of defending it. Show patients you care and would like to get things right. Show improvements. Show that you ARE opposed to bad past practices and you want to move forward and improve things for patients.

 

Open up a dispensary or market then and go for it. I do many things to advance patients protection and again this feels like a mute point I have not seen paperwork in place of a card for some time now, smile more friend and have a good day

[Restorium2]

Open up a dispensary or market then and go for it. I do many things to advance patients protection and again this feels like a mute point I have not seen paperwork in place of a card for some time now, smile more friend and have a good day

Typical. You could have just said you would try to make a difference. But no, just stone walling after a simple request to make things right. Smile more.

[The Digital Nomad]

i think all this started back when MDCH had to 'order a new printing machine" (twice!) people had noticed a date discrepancy - from when they mailed it, from when the registered mail was signed for, and when the check was cashed. Since the check was cashed the latest, lawyers had advise them to use the MDCH stamped cashed check as proof the envelope was opened. Again - some were advised by lawyers, and some interpreted the law themselves.

Let's just agree - that if you travel to a new club or cardholder event - have every part of the paper trail to make your acceptance smooth. We actually denied people trying to get into events with incomplete paper. Can you imagine, even a very old guy with a cane - his ID was expired by 1 year. We could feel sorry for the guy, and jeopardize everyone else in the club.