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When Is A Patient Legal?


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Their problem was they decided what was compliant before waiting to see how the state would decide what was compliant. Again it's not our opinions that count. It is the state courts decisions on what is compliant that counts.

 

I don't agree with these arrests. I honestly think all the people you mentioned should not have been arrested. However, the state has defined what they consider compliant and these people were not, according to those decisions.

 

The first people arrested, like King and Redden, were really unfortunate to have been first case trials. On the other hand, after reading the law, I never assumed that I could keep my whole house locked and it would count as securing my grow. It just seemed too generalized. If that were true, then you could never allow anyone into your whole house. Even letting the Jehovah's Witness that's been bugging you for last 9 months stand in your foyer would be illegal. A pizza delivery guy couldn't step through your door on a rainy night. Get it? People that are in the vicinity are protected

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I believe that all these should never have been arrested. I also believe that my view of the law, which is much, much more liberal than the view I am holding in this thread is more correct than those coming down presently from the state. The point I am trying to make is that while we might feel that we are totally compliant, it doesn't matter if the state doesn't feel the same. There have been actual guidelines established through the courts at this time. If you do not comply with those rulings, whether you agree or still think you were in compliance against those rulings, you will be arrested.

 

I will comment on each individual case and the way that I understand the court rulings if you like, none of which I agree with. I would like some time to put that opinions together though. Also, I will not bother if nobody's interested or if it's only to argue the points. They aren't going to be my opinions of the law, just the reasons why the rulings were made according to the court. I do not wish to argue the court's opinions as I do not agree with.

 

However, just because I don't agree, doesn't mean that I will ignore or go against those rulings.

we would like to see that
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hmmm. So Celliac, you are saying unless they (an Authorized Pt with the initial Dr Rec) register with the state, A Patient that decides to NOT become part of the State Registry has to see his dr 4 times a year and pay for 4 Recommendations then, to keep that recommendation CURRENT? is That what you are saying?

 

How exactly does the state uphold that now?

Edited by Timmahh
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Freddy, you have concisely articulated the entire issue.

 

Thanks Zap

 

MY thoughts on just holding a rec: I would tend to believe that it would be good for 2 years seeing that cards are for a 2 year time span.

Now the court may view that differently, so just to be on the safe side I would see my doc about every eight months just so he has a record of my progress and improvements

While treating my disabilities with mmj.

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Thanks Zap

 

MY thoughts on just holding a rec: I would tend to believe that it would be good for 2 years seeing that cards are for a 2 year time span.

Now the court may view that differently, so just to be on the safe side I would see my doc about every eight months just so he has a record of my progress and improvements

While treating my disabilities with mmj.

 

 

But administrative rules at LARA don't allow you to use a recommendation over three months old. If I were to have to guess, I think the courts will go with three months instead of the year that a card is good for.

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right 90 days for LARA when it applies to applying for your card

 

however...

 

if a person is going to be only relying a section 8 defense and is therefore planning to defend themselves in court...

and not be immune from arrest

as well as not afford themselves the protections of the card and a section 4 defense..

then they must also realize that their doctor patient relationship becomes crucial if u plan to use section 8.

 

a person must prove unequivocally that medical use is in place and the doctor patient relationship becomes a crucial step in that process...

 

if it was me... i would ensure that my medical need would not expire if you plan on using section 8.

 

in other words..

a person should be ready to prove to a court that they are suffering.. and cannabis is helping... at any given time... because to rely on section 8 u will be in front of a judge.

 

so your daily use.

your history

your environment

your every circumstance will be scrutinized..

to include the doctors recommendation

 

i personally would not only ensure it is "up to date" but that it is iron clad...

 

because lets not forget...at the point u need to use it...

 

your already in front of a judge....

 

good luck with any who choose to pursue a section 8 defense only...

 

i personally will take the card and ensure they are not supposed to even arrest me... let alone attempt to charge me with any crimes....

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He didn't say that. He said the state might argue that if you show up with a certification that they deem "too old."

 

But administrative rules at LARA don't allow you to use a recommendation over three months old. If I were to have to guess, I think the courts will go with three months instead of the year that a card is good for.

 

Yes, that is exactly what he has stated. That the state would see it as only valid for 3 months.

Trouble is, that is only suitable to those that desire to Register with the State, for the better section 4 defense protections.

 

 

Under the assumption you are using, Per the State, the Dr Auth. is only valid for 3 months (90 days), then If someone did not want to use the registry, and the Dr.'s Auth. was only VALID for 90 days, then by Default, that Pt would have to be Re Authorized ever 3 months (thus required to pay for a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th authorization), to qualify as an Authorized Pt only, thus gainin the Section 8 defense option for the following 3 Months (90 days).

That sound about right?

 

After all, if he was visited on the 120th day his Auth is expired by the state, then by that premise, that person is no longer an authorized pt, therefore does not gain consideration of the MMM Act...

Sound like the scenario being presented?

 

Does a Dr write an expiration date on an Authorization?

Edited by Timmahh
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I agree with John's assessment for the most part.

 

here is a part of the Admin info

Responsibilities of the MMMP

  • Review applications submitted by patients and caregivers wishing to participate in the MMMP and issue medical marihuana registration identification cards to those individuals whose applications are approved.
  • Maintain the confidentiality of program records in accordance with applicable state and federal confidentiality laws.
  • Provide information regarding the MMMA, MMMP policies and application processes.
  • Collect and disseminate statistics about participation in the MMMP including, but not limited to:
    • Number of applications filed and approved.
    • Nature of the debilitating medical conditions of qualified patients.
    • Number of registration identification cards revoked.
    • Number of physicians providing written certifications for qualifying patients.

 

 

 

 

That 1st line is stating, if you Wish to Participate, then you are subject to the Registry Rules, Guidelines, or Regulations outline fully by the MMM Act. And with the Kolanek MSC Ruling, it was also stated that the Dr Authorization, must be done Prior to Arrest or Time of Incident....otherwise, one sacrifices all protections outlined in the Act.

 

Anyone disagree with that?

Edited by Timmahh
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Does a Dr write an expiration date on an Authorization?

 

Did you mean recommendation instead of authorization? If so, yes it will be dated as to the day it was written. Any note a doctor gives you is dated. Doctor's are not the people who decide how long a recommendation is good for so they do not put an expiration date on them. Regular prescriptions are automatically expired after one year though.

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As a person new to the scene and to MM in general, my point may be elementary. But...

 

If we, as a community, want to be seen as patients vs potheads, caregivers vs dealers, medicating vs getting stoned, we need to be following the rules. Yes, we may not agree with them and they are open to interpretation. People are being arrested even though they are compliant. I understand this. But to me, the way all of that eventually stops is if we all agree to be good stewarts of MM, good and productive members of society, and responsible with our practices. When the community at large sees us and realizes our medication isn't a threat to their well being, it will all go away.

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As a person new to the scene and to MM in general, my point may be elementary. But...

 

If we, as a community, want to be seen as patients vs potheads, caregivers vs dealers, medicating vs getting stoned, we need to be following the rules. Yes, we may not agree with them and they are open to interpretation. People are being arrested even though they are compliant. I understand this. But to me, the way all of that eventually stops is if we all agree to be good stewarts of MM, good and productive members of society, and responsible with our practices. When the community at large sees us and realizes our medication isn't a threat to their well being, it will all go away.

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Marijuana has been widely available for at least the last 30 some odd years. I do not see zombies walking the street looking for brains to eat.

The most egregious part of the history of marijuana in this country is the fact that it's use has been stigmatized by an endless stream of propaganda.

Realistically take a look around you. About two out of every three people you meet on the street will have tried or is using marijuana.

To deny these facts is akin to walking into a windowless room and closing the door and thinking I am safe now from the bogeyman...:/

We are taught that " drugs are bad for you" But we are encouraged to go to the doctor when we get sick, what does the doc do?? Proscribe some.... you got it Drugs!

So yes I agree sugeranbrine we need to let people see who we really are. And do all we can to combat the false image of being hippies or any other image that one could possibly conjure up.

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So yes I agree sugeranbrine we need to let people see who we really are. And do all we can to combat the false image of being hippies or any other image that one could possibly conjure up.

 

I couldn't agree more. The government, though, is very powerful and has targeted this issue for many many years. While there are no obvious zombies in the streets searching for braaaaaaaains, the fact remains that many have bought in to the machine and think the propaganda is truth.

 

It falls upon our heads to disprove the stereotype and bring to light the misinformation. I don't want that responsibility myself, and I'm sure many of you don't either. However, my mama always said that the best revenge is to live an awesome life. :)

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Redden did not have a card because the program for registration(application forms and doctors rec forms) was not implemented until April. This all happened in March befor applications were accepted April 6 2009. So, if i remember correctly, Bob was raided after using his real name on this website and stating he was growing etc. He had no protections from arrest. That would be considered a legitimate arrest. I believe his original dismissal was proper in June of 2009 under Sec. 8,, but bob and tori(bless them) have been screewed over ever since bouncing through appeals court etc.

 

 

Kingpinn was growing outdoors in a dog kennel. A dog kennel may or may not be legal. But he is fighting for a Sec. 8 defense. So in the end here, whether it is enclosed or locked is irrelevent to his case. Legitimate arrest? I would say yes. Should it have been dismissed under Sec. 8 a couple years ago? Absolutely.

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  • 2 months later...

I personally do not know of anyone with a state issued MMMA ID that was arrested that was in full compliance with the law, and not transfering to anyone who wasn't connected to him through the registry.

 

Do you have proof the arrests have increased? Do you have figures forom a state agency or independent study backing up your claim or anything like that? Are you just speculating because you are now hearing about more cases?

 

I personally do not know of anyone with a state issued MMMA ID that was arrested that was in full compliance with the law,

 

Does the Law say after 21 days your paper work is the same as a card?

Or do the State / courts leave that part out?

Edited by bobandtorey
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I still say -- You are legal to use as soon as the doctor hands you singed paperwork. You are a legal patient on the 21st day after the state of Michigan receives your paperwork ( unless you have received notice otherwise).

 

agreed

section 8 (protection from prosecution)

as soon as the doctor signs your certification...

 

section 4 (protection from arrest)

21 business days after LARA receives your application or when your hard plastic card arrives and is in your possession..

whichever is soonest....

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