Link To The Fence Over Top Bill

[Herb Cannabis]

Please post the link to the bill requiring the fence over the top of my grow. Thanks all.

[t-pain]

hey herb, hows it going? any news with the case?

 

here is the bill, it says 'enclosed on all SIDES', not TOP.

the court will probably say that since an exception for the BASE (bottom) was made that there is no exception for the TOP.

which kind of means that it needs a top.

itd be nice if they amended it further, specifying such. the wording is unclear.

since its talking about a facility or structure, buildings usually only have the 4 sides. the roof is the roof. when you say 'the sides of the building were blue', you arent talking about the color of the roof.

 

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(0tvz4g3mscfksy551jrri445))/mileg.aspx?page=shortlinkdisplay&docname=2011-HB-4851

html version : http://www.legislatu...1-HEBH-4851.htm

 

House Bill No. 4851 (H-7) as amended May 2, 2012

[MARIHUANA PLANTS GROWN OUTDOORS ARE CONSIDERED TO BE

 

IN AN ENCLOSED, LOCKED FACILITY IF THEY ARE GROWN WITHIN A STATIONARY

 

STRUCTURE THAT IS ALL OF THE FOLLOWING:

 

(1) ANCHORED, ATTACHED, OR AFFIXED TO THE GROUND.

 

(2) LOCATED ON LAND THAT IS OWNED, LEASED, OR RENTED BY EITHER:

 

(A) THE REGISTERED QUALIFYING PATIENT TO WHOM THE MARIHUANA PLANTS BELONG.

 

(B) THE PERSON DESIGNATED THROUGH THE DEPARTMENTAL REGISTRATION

 

PROCESS AS THE PRIMARY CAREGIVER FOR THE REGISTERED PATIENT OR PATIENTS.

 

(3) EQUIPPED WITH FUNCTIONING LOCKS OR OTHER SECURITY DEVICES THAT PERMIT ACCESS ONLY BY THE REGISTERED PRIMARY CAREGIVER OR REGISTERED QUALIFYING PATIENT WHOSE PROPERTY THE STRUCTURE IS LOCATED UPON.

 

(4) ENCLOSED ON ALL SIDES, EXCEPT FOR THE BASE, BY CHAIN-LINK FENCING, WIRE MESH, WOODEN SLATS, OR A SIMILAR MATERIAL THAT PREVENTS ACCESS BY THE GENERAL PUBLIC.]

 

note: i am not a lawyer, do not take this as legal advice.

Edited October 10, 2012 by teethpain

[t-pain]

use examples!

 

is a 'secure, fenced, locked, facility' the same as a jail yard?

 

 

No hotlinkinked images allowed. Please use our Gallery or Photobucket to link from.

 

what color are the SIDES of this vehicle?

what color is the ROOF of this vehicle?

 

 

what color are the SIDES of this house?

what color is the ROOF of this house?

Edited October 10, 2012 by Q-Berry

[CaveatLector]

hey herb, hows it going? any news with the case?

 

here is the bill, it says 'enclosed on all SIDES', not TOP.

the court will probably say that since an exception for the BASE (bottom) was made that there is no exception for the TOP.

which kind of means that it needs a top.

itd be nice if they amended it further, specifying such. the wording is unclear.

since its talking about a facility or structure, buildings usually only have the 4 sides. the roof is the roof. when you say 'the sides of the building were blue', you arent talking about the color of the roof.

 

 

The top is a side. That is clear by the fact that the base is designated as a side. Why would the base be a side but the top wouldn't? Furthermore, how many sides does a cube have?

[t-pain]

the real question is: how many sides does a sphere have?

 

caveat: so when you go repair a hole in "the side of your house", do you get a ladder and go on the roof?

[Restorium2]

(4) ENCLOSED ON ALL SIDES, EXCEPT FOR THE BASE,

 

You can't argue that the top isn't considered a side when the base obviously is considered a side. If the base is a side, the top also is a side.

[CaveatLector]

the real question is: how many sides does a sphere have?

 

caveat: so when you go repair a hole in "the side of your house", do you get a ladder and go on the roof?

The "side of the house" example isn't relevant. The fact that the bill designates the bottom as a side makes it clear that the top is also a side. You cannot parse the words and take them out of context. Basic rules of statutory construction would tell us that the top is considered a side.

 

Your example of a sphere is exactly why your argument doesn't hold up. Do you think that if your grow room were a sphere (or maybe we should say dome since a sphere isn't practical) that it would be ajudged to have NO sides since the mathematical definition of a sphere declares that it has NO sides? So in that case you would be at a loss as to whether the grow room should be enclosed? What if you made a greenhouse skeleton in the shape of a dome that you kept uncovered in the summer? Would you then argue that you were legal because a dome has no sides (except arguably the circular bottom of a dome)?

[peanutbutter]

the real question is: how many sides does a sphere have?

 

Two .. inside and outside.

[Fat Freddy]

Two .. inside and outside.

 

Dang pb ur fast on ur feet this morning

[CaveatLector]

Two .. inside and outside.

Does that mean you have to enclose the inside and the outside?

[peanutbutter]

Does that mean you have to enclose the inside and the outside?

 

You just have to twist your brain

[Fat Freddy]

No insult meant. To make this as simple as possible take a pen and draw a circle.

Now take your finger and place it in the center of said circle. It inside the line or outside??

[CaveatLector]

No insult meant. To make this as simple as possible take a pen and draw a circle.

Now take your finger and place it in the center of said circle. It inside the line or outside??

We were being facetious. Well, I was anyway and I believe so was pb.

[t-pain]

but yeah, thats why i said "which kind of means that it needs a top."

 

at least, having a bill that requires a top, may mean that before this bill, a top was not required

[SFC]

I will say I know several people that grew outdoors this year, some had full on fencing for roofs others were open air on top and I'll be damned if LEO didn't leave them alone. This is the first year sine the law passed that I have seen this amount of outdoor grows , and the only time I have seen them left alone from LEO. We are slowly but surely gaining acceptance my friends. We need to protect that acceptance and not muck it up.

[greenbuddha]

Like, man... what a 'square' question

[Celliach]

I actually discussed this with my representative, Ed McBroom. A roof is considered to be mandatory by the legislators working on the bill. You also can't just lift it up, like a dog kennel for instance.

 

....ans as zap said, this hasn't been passed into law as of yet. Court rulings have been that one needs a roof.

[Fat Freddy]

When this was introduced months ago I did not see any problem with it until they started mucking with it.

If they will leave it as it is here I see nothing wrong with it seeing that I live in a city.

[Fat Freddy]

We were being facetious. Well, I was anyway and I believe so was pb.

 

I hope my poke made you all smile though. smiles are good for the soul.

[mibrains]

as a side note...

 

the side of a house isn't a side at all any more than the roof is..its a wall.. there's a floor, walls and a roof... they are all sides of a house...

 

if they are connected... (then there is an indoors and an outdoors) no matter what shape they are (even spherical) they still have floors, walls, roofs and all are still sides... they did not specify the shape of the sides... just that it has them all.. except the bottom one of course they spelled that one out.... the floor... seems like they are going to allow us to use the earth to plant in... (probably by mistake tho don't tell them )

[Hayduke]

I was part of the workgroup that made recommendations on this topic. I did not make too many comments as the situation was indeed somewhat silly. What if it is a 5 sided not square? originally they assumed all would be rectangular. When we brought up circular it was laughable. They had language using words like vertical, horizontal, and actually, as you point out, the words are still inappropriate.

 

The visibility issues from the neighbors and the "cover" on top are things that were stressed. Same as the addition of wood slats.... we opposed those words but to no avail. To many of us it makes growing outside very difficult unless you live away from your neighbors enough that they cannot see the grow from their lot line or from a second story window.

 

Ridiculous indeed, but with so many things to try and get changed or eliminated, and with the newest outdoor grow language always coming late in the process and close to the hearing votes it was difficult to counter. Rep Cavanagh is a sympathetic guy to us, but he was directly involved in crafting this language (4851 is his bill). I am certain Zap would support me on this.

 

In the end if you don't read it "cutely", and take it for the words it is, it is something that can be navigated. But I agree with you mibrains, it is poorly written! And to think that is what "they" say about the act: it is poorly written. Now the amendments are equally as poor... ironic indeed.

[Herb Cannabis]

hey herb, hows it going? any news with the case?

 

here is the bill, it says 'enclosed on all SIDES', not TOP.

the court will probably say that since an exception for the BASE (bottom) was made that there is no exception for the TOP.

which kind of means that it needs a top.

itd be nice if they amended it further, specifying such. the wording is unclear.

since its talking about a facility or structure, buildings usually only have the 4 sides. the roof is the roof. when you say 'the sides of the building were blue', you arent talking about the color of the roof.

 

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(0tvz4g3mscfksy551jrri445))/mileg.aspx?page=shortlinkdisplay&docname=2011-HB-4851

html version : http://www.legislatu...1-HEBH-4851.htm

 

 

 

note: i am not a lawyer, do not take this as legal advice.

 

I haven't heard crap one from them yet. I'm getting tired of waiting and was thinking that I would take a copy of this bill along with the MSC ruling pertaining to King/Kalonek (sorry if I misspelled your name) to my local Mr. Prosecutor and try to convince him not to press charges. I haven't given up on the idea of filing a suite against the state for the 20 odd plants they stole from me either. They were of the super rich cbd strains which I needed to try to save my miserable azz from this cancer. I just need to find a lawyer with enough intestinal fortitude to take my case on a contingency.

 

Thanks for asking, it reminded me why I come here in the first place, a little friendship, a little compassion go so far. Thank you.

[Herb Cannabis]

HB 4851 has not yet been made law by the Legislature.

 

That is exactly my point, how can they charge a person if it isn't in the law. Leo is the one's who told me it wasn't secure due to the lack of a roof. The prosecutor first told the cops to tell me that I had a week to get a roof on before the baboon (leo) changed his mind. All I can say is, "WHAT TO ???"

[Fat Freddy]

When the bill was introduced I moved to compliance because it made some sense. With the addition if some sort of side vision obstruction I complied. But a covering for the top??

Seriously?? The point of growing outdoors is to use natures resources and limit the impact on an aging electrical grid.

Can they just be real for a moment. As it is outdoor growers face natural obstacles like our ever changing weather, Michigan is not known for its temperate climate.

One can not control the outcome of an outdoor grow. We can feed the plants, we can fend off insects but we have no control over the weather.

[Herb Cannabis]

Two .. inside and outside.

 

You're to funny man, thanks for the laugh. Hell, I'm still smiling from ear to ear.