Contracts Between Caregivers And Patients?

[seaofgreen517]

As a new caregiver, I was wondering if I should have contracts between my patients and myself? For example, like a patient - caregiver confidentiality agreement, but with terms for both parties. Also, maybe a "Basic Patient Terms" agreement. I only suggest that one, because I have a friend go signed on with a caregiver with a certain price agreed upon for meds. Well, to make a long story short, that price still isn't being met, and he doesn't even get any free meds per month, like most patients around here get from their caregivers. I feel like a contract would help make a patient comfortable in their decision in choosing someone as a caregiver. It also provides security for the caregiver. I was just wondering everyone's thoughts on the topic.

Thank you for your time.

[shishka]

Sounds like a good idea to me.

[ozzrokk]

Nothing wrong with a contract as long as you both agree on it...

[Kingdiamond]

Contracts are a good thing but costs fluctuate when i brought on my first patient i had plenty of venues to move my unused medicine with the clubs and other cardholders since the p2p ban was put into effect anything outside of what my patient pays falls on my shoulders so be carefull when setting donation costs because what it costs now might not be what it costs 6 months from now.

[+Malamute]

"Contracts" are a good idea so everyone understands the situation, what is expected and what is offered.

 

Nicer to just call it an "agreement", but it is always best that everyone starts a relationship on the same page and the same expectations from both sides.

[seaofgreen517]

Thanks you guys. I can totally understand about setting donation prices.

 

By the way, what is the p2p ban?

[peanutbutter]

By the way, what is the p2p ban?

 

It was the thought child of our attorney general Bill Schuette.

 

It was his attempt to say that patients were not legally able to get their medicine.

 

More than 60% of registered patients in Michigan have no caregiver listed.

 

The policy of not allowing access for that patient, functionally nullifies the entire law. "You're legal but your medicine isn't."

 

It is an attempt to ban all the marijuana in the state from arriving to the patient.

 

Thus the mmj law would serve to isolate the patient and ensure the patient could not have any medicine at all.

Edited October 14, 2012 by peanutbutter

[peanutbutter]

oops ..

Edited October 14, 2012 by peanutbutter

[Highlander]

It was the thought child of our attorney general Bill Schuette.

 

It was his attempt to say that patients were not legally able to get their medicine.

 

More than 60% of registered patients in Michigan have no caregiver listed.

 

The policy of not allowing access for that patient, functionally nullifies the entire law. "You're legal but your medicine isn't."

 

It is an attempt to ban all the marijuana in the state from arriving to the patient.

 

Thus the mmj law would serve to isolate the patient and ensure the patient could not have any medicine at all.

 

The $10 plus postage it costs to send in a change form is less than the membership fee at many/most clubs.

 

If we have a shortage of competent caregivers in MI, where would dispensaries and clubs get their meds?

 

I know where those meds were coming from. The CGs whose patients come on here and complain that they weren't getting their free meds any more.

 

The need to refocus on getting more people growing needs to be part of every "dispensary/club" discussion. Patients need to understand that if they would gets lots of qualified offers if they put a post up that said "I'm a patient. I want to grow my own, and I want a caregiver to supply meds and help me grow until I can manage on my own"

 

What happens if he gets spider mites two years down the line? Well, I guess he could chop down his whole grow and go back to a dispensary - or hopefully he'd have a couple ounces of meds on-hand, which would give the vast majority of people enough meds to cover them while the signed up a new CG and repeated the process....or drop by the dispensary for the next few weeks, while a new CG is lined up.

 

Will allowing dispensaries increase access to meds - yeah probably. But that does nothing to solve the long-term issues of the costs of meds for patients. More growers growing more/better meds, flooding the supply, that drops the price. Getting people independent, that lowers the price for that patient, but it also reduces demand on the retail market, which drops the cost.

 

If 60% of patients really don't have a CG, I think there needs to be a good deal of emphasis on getting more of them either growing for themselves or lined up with a CG. Dispensary prices are not a realistic solution for 60% of patients.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Highlander

[Celliach]

There is a copy of a contract posted on this site for download. I use it all the time. I do not make anyone sign it, but I give it to new patients so they understand how I am going to approach our relationship.

 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/ccs_files/downloads/PatientCaregiverAgreement.pdf

[Celliach]

The $10 plus postage it costs to send in a change form is less than the membership fee at many/most clubs.

 

If we have a shortage of competent caregivers in MI, where would dispensaries and clubs get their meds?

 

They might not be getting meds anywhere after the McQueen decision.

[peanutbutter]

The $10 plus postage it costs to send in a change form is less than the membership fee at many/most clubs.

 

If we have a shortage of competent caregivers in MI, where would dispensaries and clubs get their meds?

 

Patients first. THAT is the entire reason for the law. The patient. Caregiver needs take a back seat to the needs of the patient.

 

Most people that get diagnosed with a serious medical condition have no existing contacts.

[Celliach]

Patients first. THAT is the entire reason for the law. The patient. Caregiver needs take a back seat to the needs of the patient.

 

Most people that get diagnosed with a serious medical condition have no existing contacts.

 

Really, patients first? Then why are you hawking hemp seed oil?

[peanutbutter]

Really, patients first? Then why are you hawking hemp seed oil?

 

YES REALLY!! PATIENTS FIRST.

 

They tend to get lost in debates.

[Highlander]

Sorry I got off-topic.

 

I have never found the need for a written agreement. Just handshakes. I guess in my experience, the patient and CG system has worked pretty well. I've had patients come to me who had, had bad CGs, but $10 later all was well. I've had patients who have decided to start their own grows, so they get the plant rights back, some over-the-shoulder help from me, and then they are off. I've had patients decide to sign up with a different CG for one reason or another - both at recert time and using a Change Form. So you can see from at least my corner of the world and with everyone I've met, the process of changing CGs is pretty fluid and smooth. It seemed to follow that with a $10 Change Form, it would be easy enough to just keep a loose agreement: "I'll be your CG until one of us decides we'd rather move on."

[Highlander]

Patients first. THAT is the entire reason for the law. The patient. Caregiver needs take a back seat to the needs of the patient.

 

Most people that get diagnosed with a serious medical condition have no existing contacts.

 

Ok fair enough. I just sat down at the PC I use for work. I had never until two minutes ago used that machine for anything cannabis-related, so my little test is a good indicator of what the new patient without contacts would encounter:

 

I went to google and typed "Need medical marihuana in Michigan" If I were a new patient and had no past contact with MMJ, I think this is a pretty fair search.

 

Hit #1 was LARA. No help there

 

Hit #2 was, yup, this site.

 

So when the new patients go seeking meds, and they land on this website, I want them to know that I know of several professional, competent, and fair CGs who would sign up new patients immediately and be willing to provide meds at 21 days - same as any dispensary would but at a much lesser rate. I want the new patients to see that I know competent CGs who will sign up the new patient, let the patient keep the plants, give the patient clones or seeds for free, help the patient grow, supply him while he grows, and hope this new patient/grower goes on to become a CG.

 

The CG would come to your home and sit down with you and help you learn how to use your meds at home - and the meds would be delivered to your home so you aren't driving around with them. The new patient doesn't need to physically go to a store to buy his meds, when maybe he'd rather not be seen. He doesn't have to give his ID, etc. to four people behind a desk. Unfortunately, you can't send your mom to pick up your MMJ. You have to go get it yourself.

 

If it really is "patients first" then I think we all would agree that the FIRST thing we should try to do for patients is to match them with a good CG who grows the strains and makes the meds needed to treat that patient's condition.

 

People keep referring to the dispensaries as the backup plan or safety net. That's fine. But if they are the safety net, the Plan B, if you will, why isn't Plan A ever part of that discussion?

 

That is the message I want new patients to see. It should be plastered all over this website so that new patients can find it easily.

 

If we never get p2p and never get more than the law we have, if dispensaries and farmers markets dry up completely, the CG model can work. It would have to work. It is also less expensive for the patients. So there are two really good reasons to push for its success.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Highlander

[peanutbutter]

deleted

Edited October 14, 2012 by peanutbutter

[The Digital Nomad]

PB is wrong.

 

We have a CG section where CG makes his post advertising his services. To prevent people trolling those posts, we lock them.

[phaquetoo]

Yet people that come here and ask for marijuana are quickly banned or the threads are locked.

 

Caregivers can't advertise their services.

 

So, as far as access goes, this site is a dead end for the new patient.

 

I don't think that is the intent of the people running this site. Rather I figure that element of the site was badgered into this dead end by a few dedicated people.

 

The objective of those doing the badgering is to deny access for the patient.

 

I thought a c.g can put up one time a month looking for pts, than it gets locked so no deals are made in the open, after they are locked the persong looking for a c.g is supposed to pm the c.g who ran the 1 monthly add or thread looking for pts!

 

Peace

Jim

[phaquetoo]

PB is wrong.

 

We have a CG section where CG makes his post advertising his services. To prevent people trolling those posts, we lock them.

 

hmm is there an echoe in here? lol

 

Peace

Jim

[Highlander]

Yet people that come here and ask for marijuana are quickly banned or the threads are locked.

 

Caregivers can't advertise their services.

 

So, as far as access goes, this site is a dead end for the new patient.

 

I don't think that is the intent of the people running this site. Rather I figure that element of the site was badgered into this dead end by a few dedicated people.

 

The objective of those doing the badgering is to deny access for the patient.

 

In the "Services" Forum the ratio is generally about 4 CGs seeking a patient per patient seeking a CG.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Highlander

[peanutbutter]

Check of the "Services" Forum. There are at least 6 open slots of CGs seeking patients posted in the past month. Maybe the first forum on the top of the page should be "patients seeking CGs"

 

WOW .. I had it wrong.

 

I thought that a lock on a thread meant something wrong had taken place.

 

Sorry folks. I got it wrong for once. (OK .. maybe the second time)

[The Digital Nomad]

as a forum monitor you should have known. I thanks for the apology to the site - "dead-end"?

 

Locked means the topic has been completed - a person asked a question and thanked the forum when he/she got the answer they needed. A decent topic can also be locked to preserve it from pages and pages of trolling between fighting members with different opinions.

[Highlander]

Yet people that come here and ask for marijuana are quickly banned or the threads are locked.

 

Caregivers can't advertise their services.

 

So, as far as access goes, this site is a dead end for the new patient.

 

I don't think that is the intent of the people running this site. Rather I figure that element of the site was badgered into this dead end by a few dedicated people.

 

The objective of those doing the badgering is to deny access for the patient.

 

I don't know about all that but I don't think I've ever seen you post to try to encourage a patient to find a CG. And if you have, the numbers of posts you made advocating dispensaries far outweigh any posts aimed at connecting patients to CGs.

 

That's fine. Supporting the CG model isn't your soapbox. But would you agree that it would be sad if a new patient had to pay dispensary prices if there is a willing and compassionate CG with the right meds willing to deliver at half the price?

 

Or the better question is, how do we fold some responsibility back to the dispensary.....responsibility to try to encourage patient independence? Require a certain minimum stock of rooted clones and seeds? Require monthly classes? Or space donated to a compassion club for same?

Edited October 14, 2012 by Highlander

[HarveyWallbanger]

When something happens to a caregiver he or she gets sick and can't do the care they agreed to some people get really mad. I take patients with the understanding i can quit at any time or for any reason because things happen.