Michigan Medical Marihuana Review Panel

[peanutbutter]

There was an informal survey thread here about reduction of opiate pill usage ..

[Restorium2]

I think it would be good to specifically tackle the alcohol aspect. While cannabis does 'allow' a patient to take less opiates, I think that cannabis 'forces' a patient off alcohol. It actually makes alcohol less fun and therefore less addicting. I have heard patients say they just don't find alcohol as entertaining after they start on a cannabis therapy. They actually convert over and become healthier if they haven't already destroyed their organs with alcohol. Alcoholism can be a personality disorder, an addictive personality. People with addictive personalities do much better with cannabis than alcohol because it's less damaging to their health and it gives them that stabilizing effect their body is craving when they use alcohol. I haven't ever been a heavy drinker so I can't speak first hand. I have witnessed it second hand so I know there are some first hand experts on this out there.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Restorium2

[mibrains]

i will confess that i have battled with alcohol addiction my whole life.

 

to the point that i was consuming nearly 750 ml a day right before i quit drinking altogether for 5 1/2 years. i learned the hard way that i don't need it and that i can live happy without chasing that demon every night.

 

part of my comfort in my controlling my behavior now is derived directly from the fact that the cannabis calms that craving down and helps absolutely to overcome the "need" for a drink.

mind you it does become a need. many have died from consuming too much as well as conversely stopping alcohol consumption. i should have known when i was young and my uncle had chrons... when he went into the hospital they hooked his IV up to alcohol because he would have died otherwise...

he did die a couple years later...

was it from alcohol? who knows.

 

maybe i am blessed.. maybe i am cursed.

 

i want to help the future generations avoid the pain and suffering i personally went through and dished out over the years and i know cannabis can help with that. it is not a substitute for the "buzz" but it could very well help to dissipate the very real and controlling "urge" that those addicted to alcohol feel.

[t-pain]

anyone have a completed (or near completed) petition, so we can see the quality and quanity of studies and such for us to improve our petitions?

[peanutbutter]

How about

 

"progressive neurological disease, characterized by physical damage of the central nervous system. With or without external physical symptoms."

[Restorium2]

How about

 

"progressive neurological disease, characterized by physical damage of the central nervous system. With or without external physical symptoms."

Yup. Here's your back-up:

http://www.cannabis-med.org/studies/study.php

Edited December 20, 2012 by Restorium2

[Dr. Bob]

I like the alcoholism suggestion.

 

PB. That is a made up name for aging.

 

I think folks are looking for serious, specific conditions here as suggestions for petitions. If there is a specific, named diagnosis, perhaps that might be helpful. I don't believe generalized symptom complexes or overly broad generalizations are what they are looking for. I believe the example of an improper petition that they mention specifically is one for 'any condition that results in hospitalization'. Too broad.

 

Insomnia, too broad.

Insomnia requiring medical treatment, better.

insomnia requiring treatment and associated with anxiety/depression under treatment, better

 

Dr. Bob

[t-pain]

chronic debilitating insomnia?

[Dr. Bob]

chronic debilitating insomnia?

 

Define debilitating and what are the objective criteria used to separate it from 'regular' insomnia. Under a physician's care for the insomnia? You tell me. Good thought, but how do we sell it as an indication for a certification? Everyone has insomnia at one time or another, there are over the counter meds for it. We need some special 'subcategory' of insomnia that will get the approval.

 

 

Dr. Bob

[Restorium2]

Severe pain insomnia. That is the most debilitating thing I can think of. It's a terrible, viscous, cycle your body gets stuck in and can't get out of without the help of medical cannabis. I will testify.

Edited to change chronic to severe. We already have chronic pain.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Restorium2

[Dr. Bob]

Agreed Zap. What we need to do with a very broad condition like insomnia is carve out a specific type of insomnia that can be supported with objective records. It is similar to 'anxiety'. Everyone is anxious. Anxiety under medical care is more defined and documented. PTSD is a specific condition, lots have it, but how is it documented and defended in court? PTSD under professional treatment is better than general PSTD self diagnosed by a patient.

 

Dr. Bob

[peanutbutter]

I like the alcoholism suggestion.

 

PB. That is a made up name for aging.

 

I think folks are looking for serious, specific conditions here as suggestions for petitions. If there is a specific, named diagnosis, perhaps that might be helpful. I don't believe generalized symptom complexes or overly broad generalizations are what they are looking for. I believe the example of an improper petition that they mention specifically is one for 'any condition that results in hospitalization'. Too broad.

 

Insomnia, too broad.

Insomnia requiring medical treatment, better.

insomnia requiring treatment and associated with anxiety/depression under treatment, better

 

Dr. Bob

 

"neurological disease"

"progressive neurological disease"

"progressive neurological disease, characterized by physical damage of the central nervous system."

"progressive neurological disease, characterized by physical damage of the central nervous system. With or without external physical symptoms."

 

I'm very surprised to see you call that aging.

 

Perhaps you were thinking about dementia. Which is not caused by aging.

[+Malamute]

Chronic insomnia.

[Dr. Bob]

"neurological disease"

"progressive neurological disease"

"progressive neurological disease, characterized by physical damage of the central nervous system."

"progressive neurological disease, characterized by physical damage of the central nervous system. With or without external physical symptoms."

 

I'm very surprised to see you call that aging.

 

Perhaps you were thinking about dementia. Which is not caused by aging.

 

Nervous tissue, like any other tissue, has changes which can be seen with a microscope as it ages. This damage may or may not cause external symptoms. Your phrase well describes the aging process and is hopelessly vague. Our skin wrinkles and so do our nerves.

 

But I am sure oil will fix it.

 

Let's stick to specific conditions that have objective findings (physical or generate treatment records) that have a chance of passing the review board. Those are the ones I thought I would address.

 

Dr. Bob

Edited December 20, 2012 by Dr. Bob

[peanutbutter]

Nervous tissue, like any other tissue, has changes which can be seen with a microscope as it ages. This damage may or may not cause external symptoms. Your phrase well describes the aging process and is hopelessly vague. Our skin wrinkles and so do our nerves.

 

But I am sure oil will fix it.

 

Let's stick to specific conditions that have objective findings (physical or generate treatment records) that have a chance of passing the review board. Those are the ones I thought I would address.

 

Dr. Bob

 

I think I see your point.

 

I hope that you didn't seriously believe that aging was the only thing I described.

[Dr. Bob]

I think I see your point.

 

I hope that you didn't seriously believe that aging was the only thing I described.

 

Ok, no I was just pointing out that in addition to actual conditions that might be helped with cannabis, that name also described normal aging. Though having just turned 50 I think that anyone that has lived half a century has 'earned' the right to cannabis...lol

 

Take care and Merry Christmas.

 

Dr. Bob

[cristinew]

High Blood Pressure ,,

[knucklehead bob]

Study Shows Cannabis Is A “Potential Exit Drug To Problematic Substance Use”

 

Three quarters of medical cannabis consumers report using it as a substitute for prescription drugs, alcohol, or some other illicit substance, according to survey datapublished in the journal Addiction Research and Theory.

http://www.theweedblog.com/study-shows-cannabis-is-a-potential-exit-drug-to-problematic-substance-use/

[t-pain]

i figured out an answer for question 3 i think maybe useful.

 

 

the condition needs to be listed, because the courts have ruled over and over again, that if something isnt specified exactly in the law, then its still illegal. see supreme court king/kolanek opinion "Rather, the MMMA’s protections are limited

to individuals suffering from serious or debilitating medical conditions or symptoms" and "Section 8 of the MMMA provides a limited protection for the use of medical marijuana in criminal prosecutions,"

 

the supreme court sees it as very 'limited'. so we want to protect those UNREGISTERED patients who are already using medical marijuana for their debilitating condition/symptoms.

Edited December 27, 2012 by t-pain

[peanutbutter]

Is MS covered already? The SYMPTOMS of MS are.

 

So does the person with MS have to already have symptoms already present or is the MS patient already qualified before symptoms present themselves?

[Restorium2]

OK folks, get your petitions in the mail. It's a new day in a new year, and we need to make some more progress. Make sure you put enough postage on it. Mine contained nine pages, two stamps was plenty.

That address is long winded! This one is for Asthma.

[Restorium2]

Excellent work, Restorium. I can't wait for the panel to hear your petition.

Thanks. I believe it's solid. As an asthma patient, I know cannabis used properly does the same thing as Advair, an accepted asthma medication.. I have proven it to my doctor. He took me off of Advair after I gradually decreased the dosage to the point it was a child's dosage, one puff a day. I found a couple clinical trials that mimic what I have experienced.

The best thing about substituting cannabis in for Advair was getting away from the dangers of Advair. It's a much riskier drug to take than cannabis.

[bobandtorey]

i figured out an answer for question 3 i think maybe useful.

 

 

the condition needs to be listed, because the courts have ruled over and over again, that if something isnt specified exactly in the law, then its still illegal. see supreme court king/kolanek opinion "Rather, the MMMA’s protections are limited

to individuals suffering from serious or debilitating medical conditions or symptoms" and "Section 8 of the MMMA provides a limited protection for the use of medical marijuana in criminal prosecutions,"

 

the supreme court sees it as very 'limited'. so we want to protect those UNREGISTERED patients who are already using medical marijuana for their debilitating condition/symptoms.

 

so we want to protect those UNREGISTERED patients who are already using medical marijuana

 

Thanks

it also would be great to protect the people that were legal with paper work

after the 21 days who were under plant count locked up and under 2.5 oz

In (Oakland County)

but am glad you wrote the word limited because that is the key word in their opinion

[cristinew]

hypertension most young people do not have it,,,, many older do,,

 

 

[1] Franjo Grotenhermen. 2006. Clinical pharmacodynamics of cannabinoids. In Russo et al (Eds) Handbook of Cannabis Therapeutics. Binghampton, New York: Haworth Press.

[/url] Batkai et al. 2004. . Circulation 110: 1996-220.

Pacher et al. 2005. .Neuropharmacology 48: 1130-1138.

[4] Ibid.

Cecilia Hillard. 2000. . Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics. 294: 27-32.

[6] Kunos et al. 2000. Endocannabinoids as cardiovascular modulators. Chemistry and Physics of Lipids 108: 159-168.

[7] Reese Jones. 2002. Cardiovascular system effects of marijuana. Journal of Clinical Pharmacology. 42: 58-63.

[8] Ribuot et al. 2005. Cardiac and vascular effects of cannabinoids: toward a therapeutic use? Annales de Cardiologie et d’Angeiologie (France) 54: 89-96.

[9] Steven Karch. 2006. Cannabis and cardiotoxicity. Forensic Science, Medicine, and Pathology. 2: 13-18.

Ibid.

[11] Rodondi et al. 2006. Marijuana use, diet, body mass index and cardiovascular risk factors. American Journal of Cardiology 98: 478-484.

Reese Jones. 2002. op. cit.

Steffens and Mach. 2006. . Future Cardiology 2: 49-53.

[14] Steffens et al. 2005. Low dose oral cannabinoid therapy reduces progression of atherosclerosis in mice.Nature 434: 782-786.

[15] Steffens and Mach. 2006. Cannabinoid receptors in atherosclerosis. Current Opinion in Lipidology 17: 519-526.

Steven Karch. 2006. op. cit.

Francois Mach. 2006. . Archives of Physiology and Biochemistry 112: 130-137.

 

http://www.health.am/hypertension/more/cannabis-to-lower-blood-pressure/

[cristinew]

Cannabis to lower blood pressure!

•High Blood Pressure news•Jun 20, 06

 

A new method for lowering blood pressure (hypertension) through use of a compound that synthesizes a cannabis (hashish) plant component has been developed by a pharmacology Ph.D. student at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem School of Pharmacy.

For his work on the cardiovascular activity of cannabinoids (chemical compounds derived from cannabis), Yehoshua Maor was one of the winners of this year’s Kaye Innovation Awards, presented on June 13 during the Hebrew University of Jerusalem’s 69th meeting of the Board of Governors.

Cardiovascular disease (CVD) accounts for about one-third of all deaths in industrialized countries, and is the leading reason for visits there to physicians as well as for drug prescriptions. However, not all patients respond well to the drugs available. There is no “ideal’ hypotensive (blood pressure lowering) drug.

 

 

The cannabis plant - also known as hashish or marijuana - through its chemical compounds - cannabinoids - has been shown to have a beneficial, hypotensive effect. However, a drawback in the therapeutic use of cannabinoids has been its undesirable psychotropic properties - production of hallucinatory effects. Attempts to separate the hypotensive action from the psychotropic properties of cannabinoids have achieved only partial success until now.

Working under the supervision of Prof. Raphael Mechoulam at the Hebrew University School of Pharmacy, Maor, who was born in Brazil and immigrated to Israel in 1998, has created a synthetic version of a minor cannabis constituent named cannabigerol, which is devoid of psychotropic activity.

In laboratory experiments with rats in collaboration with Prof. Michal Horowitz of the Department of Environmental Physiology, it was found that this novel compound reduced blood pressure when administered to the rats in relatively low doses. Additional testing also showed that the compound also brought about another beneficial effect - relaxation of the blood vessels. A further beneficial property observed in work carried out with Prof. Ruth Gallily of the Lautenberg Center for General and Tumor Immunology, was that the compounds produced an anti-inflammatory response.

Maor believes that these qualities have the potential for development of a valuable new clinical drug with a major market potential, especially for patients suffering from inflammation of the blood vessels as the result of hypertension, and others with metabolic irregularities.

Maor already has won international recognition for his work with cannabanoids, resulting from his collaborative work with Garry Milman, another Ph.D. student in the laboratory of Prof. Mechoulam, for the discovery of an endogenous compound found in the brain which causes vaso-relaxation.

Maor begin a post-doctoral fellowship in the fall at the Harvard University Medical School, where he plans to continue his research.

The Kaye Innovation Awards have been given annually since 1994. Isaac Kaye of England, a prominent industrialist in the pharmaceutical industry, established the awards to encourage faculty, staff and students of the Hebrew University to develop innovative methods and inventions with good commercial potential which will benefit the university and society.

 

 

Read more:Cannabis to lower blood pressure! -High Blood Pressure newshttp://www.health.am/hypertension/more/cannabis-to-lower-blood-pressure/#ixzz2GphUGFz1