Lab Testing.

[shishka]

So I've heard recently that at least one lab will "bump" up your thc/cbd levels for a little extra cash. Also heard a dispensary owner uses a certain lab because their numbers were better that a competing lab.

 

Seems to me that if a lab wants to stay in business it would be in their best interest to pad the numbers a bit.

 

Anyone else hearing this kind of stuff?

[cristinew]

Just send the samples to me and i will bump the numbers up to what ever you want them to be,

 

dispensary owner? and testing labs fixing numbers ? Now how could that be,

[michaelscott]

Haven't seen him around much lately but a lab owner here has semi admitted that Thc percentages they give out are more of a novelty and not very accurate with the equipment being used.

[Northern Lab]

Haven't seen him around much lately but a lab owner here has semi admitted that Thc percentages they give out are more of a novelty and not very accurate with the equipment being used.

 

I didn't say they were inaccurate. They are quite accurate. There is a huge chance for natural variation in the crop, however, and the sample tested may or may not be representative of the entire crop. There is a lot more to chromatography than simple THC levels, which are, admittedly, more of a genital size contest than anything. That part is somewhat of a novelty. Anyone that can hold a joint can tell you if something gets you psychoactively medicated or not. Where chromatography shines is in detecting CBD and CBN levels, as well as identifying and quantifying specific terpenes and matching them up with strain specific characteristics.

 

So I've heard recently that at least one lab will "bump" up your thc/cbd levels for a little extra cash. Also heard a dispensary owner uses a certain lab because their numbers were better that a competing lab.

 

Seems to me that if a lab wants to stay in business it would be in their best interest to pad the numbers a bit.

 

Anyone else hearing this kind of stuff?

 

I occasionally make that joke and have it made to me. I've never had anyone actually offer to buy higher numbers nor have I ever offered it. I doubt any lab would seriously do something like this, we trade on our reputation, it's all we have. It makes no sense to jeopardize something that important for a few extra bucks per test.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Northern Lab

[michaelscott]

Thanks for clearing that up northern, wasn't trying to disrespect you or anything. I personally think Thc % is the last thing people should look at when the med test comes back but I know little of the chemistry and most of what I do know comes from your contributions here.

 

Goblue!

[cristinew]

Yes under different conditions,,, two clones from the same plant can have huge different results

[MrKind]

two buds from same plant can have different numbers. we need a better way

[Northern Lab]

Thanks for clearing that up northern, wasn't trying to disrespect you or anything. I personally think Thc % is the last thing people should look at when the med test comes back but I know little of the chemistry and most of what I do know comes from your contributions here.

 

Goblue!

 

It's all good. Glad I had a chance to clear up any confusion.

 

Yes under different conditions,,, two clones from the same plant can have huge different results

 

True. Two buds can have different THC numbers as well. What should remain constant is the ratio of THC to CBD. CBD acts as a 'governor' of THC in the brain. The higher the ratio of THC to CBD, the stronger the psychoactive effects will be.

 

For example, we tested some Strawberry cough that came in at 21% THC with a THC to CBD ratio of around 50:1. The same grower also submitted a sample of The Cheese that came in at about 15-16% THC but the ratio was 85:1.

 

The grower thought the Cheese sample would test higher in THC due to the fact that the grower was reporting much stronger effects with it. As I mentioned previously, it wasn't higher in THC than the Strawberry, but since it had less governing CBD, it 'felt' stronger.

 

That's why just looking at one metric - THC levels - doesn't really give you the complete picture. The ratio of THC to CBD has more to do with how 'strong' a strain feels than do THC levels alone. Combine that with the fact that there is natural variation in the plant, and THC levels can vary five percentage points or more from the tops to the bottoms and you can see why the ratio is actually much more informative to the patient than THC levels alone.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Northern Lab

[Willy]

too me a lab is for testing not the strength, but the quality of the grow, toxins, molds, bugs, after all that, then the THC/CBD ratio is important. I would rather grow a lighter variety *if I had too* of clean nice buds,, rather than some kick butt type bud with mold and insecticides.. The ideal is to have high quality in both sides of the coin... and to lightly quantify the quality of our meds...

 

Now as far as tweaking out the results.. all that will do is stop the labs from being trusted. loss of business on there end..Im sure that would work itself out in due course..

Edited November 18, 2012 by Willy

[Northern Lab]

too me a lab is for testing not the strength, but the quality of the grow, toxins, molds, bugs, after all that, then the THC/CBD ratio is important. I would rather grow a lighter variety *if I had too* of clean nice buds,, rather than some kick butt type bud with mold and insecticides.. The ideal is to have high quality in both sides of the coin... and to lightly quantify the quality of our meds...

 

Now as far as tweaking out the results.. all that will do is stop the labs from being trusted. loss of business on there end..Im sure that would work itself out in due course..

 

You have the right attitude!

[Restorium2]

Labs are a gimmick to make money off cannabis. There is no evidence at all that they help any patient find the medicine that works for them. Testing is like a penis measuring contest, all you can tell is it's longer, not works better. You definitely can tell if it's going to knock your head off by the THC percentage. But that's just a plus for the recreational crowd. I can see the uses for testing for someone who wants to prove they can blow you away with their sack of herbs. Medical testing needs to be done by the patient, not by a lab. Watch out for those 'wonder strains' too. They are mostly gimmicks to make money. I have seen people pass off ditch weed as medical because it doesn't have any THC in it. What a load of BS. It's great if you want nothing but a headache.

[Northern Lab]

Labs are a gimmick to make money off cannabis. There is no evidence at all that they help any patient find the medicine that works for them. Testing is like a penis measuring contest, all you can tell is it's longer, not works better. You definitely can tell if it's going to knock your head off by the THC percentage. But that's just a plus for the recreational crowd. I can see the uses for testing for someone who wants to prove they can blow you away with their sack of herbs. Medical testing needs to be done by the patient, not by a lab. Watch out for those 'wonder strains' too. They are mostly gimmicks to make money. I have seen people pass off ditch weed as medical because it doesn't have any THC in it. What a load of BS. It's great if you want nothing but a headache.

 

As I have already explained, THC percentage is not a reliable medical metric.

 

You say testing is a gimmick. How do you identify CBD rich material without chromatography?

[peanutbutter]

.

Edited November 18, 2012 by peanutbutter

[Restorium2]

As I have already explained, THC percentage is not a reliable medical metric.

 

You say testing is a gimmick. How do you identify CBD rich material without chromatography?

I identify what works for a patient by what works for a patient. We are just barely scraping the surface about how cannabis works for patients. To pretend to know that, by testing cannabis on the machine you use, is a money making gimmick.

[cristinew]

I sure like to test my Oil ,,,,

[Restorium2]

I have never heard any representative of a lab say that they can tell what works by testing. It is more like the opposite: bring us something that works and we'll test it, and maybe determine why it works based on the chemistry.

There are a whole lot of people getting the wrong impression then. There are people wishing and a hoping they can bust out a crop of high CBD tested by the lab so they have a wonder strain. I think that's what the lab guy was eluding to with this comment; How do you identify CBD rich material without chromatography?

He knows what people are up to. They want a one trick pony, high CBD lab tested strain, to sell for mo' money. I saw this happening with the dispensaries out west. It's just another gimmick to say I'm better than you are, and you can't do this at home. It's just another money making idea that has no back-up in reality. One loved dearly by the dispensary/lab people because it makes them some cash.

[Restorium2]

I sure like to test my Oil ,,,,

Right. It's fun. Have you ever helped a patient with lab testing? And if so, how?

[Northern Lab]

I identify what works for a patient by what works for a patient. We are just barely scraping the surface about how cannabis works for patients. To pretend to know that, by testing cannabis on the machine you use, is a money making gimmick.

 

I agree we're just scraping the surface. How are we going to get any deeper if we don't take advantage of the scientific tools at our disposal. I'll ask again, how do you identify CBD rich material without chromatography?

 

I have never heard any representative of a lab say that they can tell what works by testing. It is more like the opposite: bring us something that works and we'll test it, and maybe determine why it works based on the chemistry.

 

Precisely.

[Restorium2]

I agree we're just scraping the surface. How are we going to get any deeper if we don't take advantage of the scientific tools at our disposal. I'll ask again, how do you identify CBD rich material without chromatography

I'm not even buying the THEORY that high CBD is doing what you claim it's doing. So why test for it at all? It's way too one dimensional. You are looking for high CBD because people THINK that CBD = $$$$$$$$$$. Patients test strains for medical uses. Machines test marijuana to see if it's a money maker. You are more suited with the rec, crowd, just like the dispensaries. We are a little more sophisticated and need more comprehensive testing by patients.

[Willy]

Then answer me this,, what makes medical marijuana MEDICAL? I suggest its the quality of the medication, the lack of foreign substances.. if you used raid on your crops,, i would like to know for sure that was or not the case.. I feel a lab can enlighten me on that .. besides guessing how do i know...I'm pretty sure that anyone using toxic bug sprays wont tell me the consumer that is there spray of choice,, no i would be told , its all organic, naturally grown.. (ya right) Medical grade mmj grown with love and sprayed with raid.. there ya go..

And what is with the outrage that someone offers that service.. because it cost a few bucks,,, i have yet to find a cg that gives all his meds away free..funny thing about that, even the best CG wants something for his service.. If you know of someone that gives it free,, were do i sign up..

[Northern Lab]

I'm not even buying the THEORY that high CBD is doing what you claim it's doing. So why test for it at all? It's way too one dimensional. You are looking for high CBD because people THINK that CBD = $$$$$$$$$$. Patients test strains for medical uses. Machines test marijuana to see if it's a money maker. You are more suited with the rec, crowd, just like the dispensaries. We are a little more sophisticated and need more comprehensive testing by patients.

 

So you're dismissing all the evidence that points to CBD being medically effective?

 

And then you have the gall to tell me you are a little more sophisticated and need more info. Truly amazing!

 

The projection here is also very telling. While it is true that some clones of lab confirmed CBD rich strains have sold for hundreds of dollars, it's really not that far out of the realm when you consider the cost,space, and time put in to phenotyping a new strain. Most of the folks I've met looking for CBD rich material are doing so in order to make extract for patients, and they give it away for free or very little cost in the vast majority of cases.

 

The fact of the matter is that cannabis that doesn't produce a 'high' isn't something fans of THC rich meds will want, which is the vast majority of consumers, so I don't really get the logic behind claiming CBD rich strains are another gimmick to make money.

 

Terpene profile, along with the composition of minor cannabinoids, can have a significant influence on the specific effects of a given strain. Pretending that the testing being performed is 'one dimensional' is a flat out lie.

[Restorium2]

Then answer me this,, what makes medical marijuana MEDICAL? I suggest its the quality of the medication, the lack of foreign substances.. if you used raid on your crops,, i would like to know for sure that was or not the case.. I feel a lab can enlighten me on that .. besides guessing how do i know...I'm pretty sure that anyone using toxic bug sprays wont tell me the consumer that is there spray of choice,, no i would be told , its all organic, naturally grown.. (ya right) Medical grade mmj grown with love and sprayed with raid.. there ya go..

And what is with the outrage that someone offers that service.. because it cost a few bucks,,, i have yet to find a cg that gives all his meds away free..funny thing about that, even the best CG wants something for his service.. If you know of someone that gives it free,, were do i sign up..

You will just have to know your caregiver. That is the absolute best way to know there are no poisons, because there's no way to lab test everything you buy. You would have to trust the supplier that their test was a true representation of what they are selling you. They will just test until they get a desired result and tell you that's what you are buying. Testing sounds good until you dig a little deeper into it and see it doesn't do what we need it to do. It's not a value added service in the real world. Know your caregiver or grow it yourself. This is a very trust related thing.

[Willy]

Most labs do not screen for pesticides, either because they do not have the equipment, or because it is not desired by the person submitting the material to be tested. I do not think that type of testing is beneficial at all, because the sample size is so tiny. Also, a visual and olfactory inspection is much more accurate for determining the presence of mold and other bio contaminants.

 

so if i spray with poison, and get a lab test, i just say , don't test for pesticides? if they have the capability.. i think that would be counter productive to a test in the first place, and in a way supportive of the op's point of view..

 

The best use of testing is exactly how it is being used now: to determine the chemical makeup of individual strains and develop a corpus of test results.

[Northern Lab]

You will just have to know your caregiver. That is the absolute best way to know there are no poisons, because there's no way to lab test everything you buy. You would have to trust the supplier that their test was a true representation of what they are selling you. They will just test until they get a desired result and tell you that's what you are buying. Testing sounds good until you dig a little deeper into it and see it doesn't do what we need it to do. It's not a value added service in the real world. Know your caregiver or grow it yourself. This is a very trust related thing.

 

What, specifically, do you need testing to do before you will take it seriously?

[Willy]

What, specifically, do you need testing to do before you will take it seriously?

 

Do you test for pesticides? or can you see molds and bugs? do they give results and is that included with a lab report? Or is it related to what the customer is asking for.. Just curious since i am being told that these things are not able to be tested for.. I would think these things would be a given in any report from a lab.. or is it just a limited analysis relating to just three item, tch/cbd ratio, and terpines.? I have to admit i have had limited testing done.. I am also in favor of testing.. if it does do what i expect.. and that is a clean bill of health for the meds.

 

And i agree a few hits tells a lot , taste and smell,, quality

Edited November 18, 2012 by Willy