So The House Has Passed Right To Work.

[+Malamute]

Didn't Zantop previously go bankrupt before pilot unionization? And wasn't the next bankruptcy more to do with their foreign contracts that bellied up and broke the company?

 

Sure, they didn't like the unionization, but this was after the company had previously failed then made bad business decisions thus undercutting their capital and those jobs would have been lost regardless of unionization?

[Highlander]

Kinda funny how universally the soulless big businesses suck on the teat of the common man and the working class. Unions and dispensaries kinda run hand in hand here. They have the same objective…become a middle man in the manufacturing process and skim off in the name of safety, or should we say “safe access.”

 

The dispensary says, “you need us to provide safe medication” The union says “you need us to provide safe working conditions.”

 

Here are two pearls of wisdom:

 

1. If your employer expects you to work in unsafe conditions, call 1-800-TO-MIOSH. This is free.

2. If your caregiver sux, post a “wanted: CG” ad on this website. Maximum cost is $10 for the Change Form.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Highlander

[+Malamute]

I am not anti-union but to say that non-union shops are making inferior products is plain BS. And then you deflected by comparing it to china, this isn't about China it is about US jobs. You have no first hand knowledge to make such a claim. If the non-union shops were making an inferior product they won't be in business long. Same goes for Construction. Union construction is in my experience inferior.

 

If ya read my first example i specifically said in my town. We have a union shop on one sideof town and a non union shop on the other. The parts errors are about 10% higher at the non union shop. They pay the guys between $9 and $14 an hour to grind parts all day. The union shop pays $18- $26 an hour. A waaaay better shop with highly skilled quality workers who make better parts with less errors.

 

That is a direct example right in my backyard.

 

People work as hard as they get paid. Efficiency is higher in the union shop. They do more work with less people and get paid a living wage. Ya know... that huge $20/hr. Watch out... with a little overtime and holiday pay they may break $40,000 this year for slaving their asses grinding metal.

 

*shrug*

 

Non-union metal grinders are bringing home $23-25k a year average.

 

It seems silly to squabble over what the bottom 50% of society make.

[nthlghts]

10% improvement for 50% more cost, you just made a business case to can the union.

 

If ya read my first example i specifically said in my town. We have a union shop on one sideof town and a non union shop on the other. The parts errors are about 10% higher at the non union shop. They pay the guys between $9 and $14 an hour to grind parts all day. The union shop pays $18- $26 an hour. A waaaay better shop with highly skilled quality workers who make better parts with less errors.

 

That is a direct example right in my backyard.

 

People work as hard as they get paid. Efficiency is higher in the union shop. They do more work with less people and get paid a living wage. Ya know... that huge $20/hr. Watch out... with a little overtime and holiday pay they may break $40,000 this year for slaving their asses grinding metal.

 

*shrug*

 

Non-union metal grinders are bringing home $23-25k a year average.

 

It seems silly to squabble over what the bottom 50% of society make.

[+Malamute]

You are miscalculating the cost of a 10% error rate.

 

Read up on it before making silly comments.

[nthlghts]

No I am not! Hire a couple of key people to do quality control. If I am silly why are companies making these same decisions everyday. You are talking from you know where. I managed several suppliers for Ford, just so you know before you put your foot in it.

 

 

You are miscalculating the cost of a 10% error rate.

 

Read up on it before making silly comments.

[+Malamute]

SO what is the average downstream, reprocessing and soft costs to a 10% error rate?

 

Go!

[+Malamute]

No I am not! Hire a couple of key people to do quality control. If I am silly why are companies making these same decisions everyday. You are talking from you know where. I managed several suppliers for Ford, just so you know before you put your foot in it.

 

And why hire more people which equals more cost , instead of just hiring high quality employees for a little more money who do not have such errors?

 

reduction in processing costs does not always(usually) equal less total cost.

[nthlghts]

The cost is nothing to ford they pay nothing to suppliers when they fail, bottom line costs us nothing. The supplier may lose the contract, but in the end we get our parts. There is always another job shop, so your 10% lands squarely on supplier.

 

 

Unions have proven that their quality only matters when they are in trouble! Proven over and over.

 

 

 

 

And why hire more people which equals more cost , instead of just hiring high quality employees for a little more money who do not have such errors?

 

reduction in processing costs does not always(usually) equal less total cost.

 

 

SO what is the average downstream, reprocessing and soft costs to a 10% error rate?

 

Go!

[+Malamute]

And you proved you do not know what you are talking about.

[nthlghts]

Really! The whole reason for the job shop and union busting is to save money. So you know better than the ones who profit. You are an arm chair fool! Why don't you get a job as CEO so your business ideals are implemented. Major corps are all going this way but you know better. LMAO!

 

 

And you proved you do not know what you are talking about.

[solabeirtan]

Another possibility is that they are opening our area to foreign companies like KIA, Hyundai, Mazda, Mitsubishi and Daewoo too with their south korean, japanese and chinese factories and their workers who will be totally non-union.

 

Dam I thought WE won WWII and not without the help of Union Workers like Rosie the Riveter, Alfonso the Airframe hombre and Dan the Sheet metal man. So this is our reward, sold out by the man, with the Political plan in his hand.

 

I think they call it Free Trade, used to be Free that Slave. This has been substituted for your Freedom and the American Dream is more elusive than ever. In the land of the Fee and the home of the Slave.

 

Gdxxxxx the Politician Man!

Edited December 8, 2012 by mibrains
removed mispelled swear word the filter missed

[nthlghts]

Sold out by the workers more like it. Are you actually comparing the worker in the 40s with those of today. I know a union worker with a 5 lb weight restriction, lmao again. It takes more than 5lbs of pull to tie my shoes, but this guy gets paid. And I have lots of these stories! Union workers f..ked themselves.

 

 

Another possibility is that they are opening our area to foreign companies like KIA, Hyundai, Mazda, Mitsubishi and Daewoo too with their south korean, japanese and chinese factories and their workers who will be totally non-union.

 

Dam I thought WE won WWII and not without the help of Union Workers like Rosie the Riveter, Alfonso the Airframe hombre and Dan the Sheet metal man. So this is our reward, sold out by the man, with the Political plan in his hand.

 

I think they call it Free Trade, used to be Free that Slave. This has been substituted for your Freedom and the American Dream is more elusive than ever. In the land of the Fee and the home of the Slave.

[solabeirtan]

Union workers f..ked themselves.

I suggest you try the same my friend. The plight of the non union workers is what the discussion is about. How many of them even provide any ins. policy at all? even with a 50/50 co-pay plan? How about random drug screening? That crap isn't even legal. wtf? You from out of town or something?

Edited December 8, 2012 by solabeirtan

[nthlghts]

The discussion is

So The House Has Passed Right To Work. And I agree!

 

 

I agree because this is what we have, companies are bugging out to right to work states. And the blame runs very wide and deep!

 

 

 

I suggest you try the same my friend. The plight of the non union workers is what the discussion is about. How many of them even provide any ins. policy at all? even with a 50/50 co-pay plan? How about random drug screening? That crap isn't even legal. wtf? You from out of town or something?

[nthlghts]

I don't recall seeing non union workers protesting, hmm. Lets see union is maybe 20% of workers here, so 80% were not complaining. Seems like a no brainer. So here again the over paid union worker is telling the person with no job to hold out, wow!

[cristinew]

The whole reason for the job shop and union busting is to save money.???????

 

 

NO it so the CEO can make Billions

 

This post was about the Protesting the republicans has no meaning to them ,,they wil take what rights away they want too,

[SFC]

The union and non-union shops are using the same high tech CNC machines and the same people, just one gets paid more for actually doing less. I will admit that the GM shops do not allow the shenanigans of the past. That ship runs much tighter than it ever did. But to do that they had to really get ugly first.

 

There are also a ton of very small shops doing contracts for the big three, Toyota, etc. My one buddy makes chrome grill covers for Toyota among other things. He will not do work for GM, says he was jerked around enough by them over the years.

[Restorium2]

Didn't Zantop previously go bankrupt before pilot unionization? And wasn't the next bankruptcy more to do with their foreign contracts that bellied up and broke the company?

 

Sure, they didn't like the unionization, but this was after the company had previously failed then made bad business decisions thus undercutting their capital and those jobs would have been lost regardless of unionization?

Bingo. I have seen GM make bad business decisions that cost the company millions at a throw. One bad management mistake, just one mistake, cost what ten workers make in their lifetimes. They buy a precision machine that doesn't work for $500,000. I know it will not work by just looking at it. So what do they do? They buy 100 of them without consulting anyone who would know if the machine could do the job. So they waste $50, 000, 000 on that one mistake. Then, they pay a consulting firm $200,000 to find out how to squeeze more work out of an employee because they wasted all that money. They find a way to make someone do two jobs instead of one, running in circles like a chicken with their head cut off. That saved the company $48,000, but they just paid a 'money fo nothin' type folks $200,000 to find it! That's the reality of why businesses fail, not someone mowing their lawn on an extra long lunch hour or shutting down the assemblty line. The shutting down the assembly line thing is just so darn bogus. That's the life blood. No one messes with that or you have ten regular employees down your throat, with 3 hourly leaders kicking your backside, and your boss writing you up, and the plant manager kicking his back side. No, hourly folks don't shut down the assembly line on purpose for fun or a nap. Not more than once. That's definitely a myth.

[Restorium2]

The union and non-union shops are using the same high tech CNC machines and the same people, just one gets paid more for actually doing less. I will admit that the GM shops do not allow the shenanigans of the past. That ship runs much tighter than it ever did. But to do that they had to really get ugly first.

 

There are also a ton of very small shops doing contracts for the big three, Toyota, etc. My one buddy makes chrome grill covers for Toyota among other things. He will not do work for GM, says he was jerked around enough by them over the years.

No, the difference in pay is mostly the benefit package the union shop employees have.

 

The reason your buddy is being jerked around by GM MANAGEMENT is because they use underhanded dealings that work around union contracts to buy parts they shouldn't be buying. When they get caught they get fined and the supplier they used (when they cheated us) gets jerked around too. That's part of the problem, but it's not part of the problem with unions, it's the problem with management again. Just like wasting all that money on tinker toy machines that can't hold tolerances.

[Sledge]

Bingo. I have seen GM make bad business decisions that cost the company millions at a throw. One bad management mistake, just one mistake, cost what ten workers make in their lifetimes. They buy a precision machine that doesn't work for $500,000. I know it will not work by just looking at it. So what do they do? They buy 100 of them without consulting anyone who would know if the machine could do the job. So they waste $50, 000, 000 on that one mistake. Then, they pay a consulting firm $200,000 to find out how to squeeze more work out of an employee because they wasted all that money. They find a way to make someone do two jobs instead of one, running in circles like a chicken with their head cut off. That saved the company $48,000, but they just paid a 'money fo nothin' type folks $200,000 to find it! That's the reality of why businesses fail, not someone mowing their lawn on an extra long lunch hour or shutting down the assemblty line. The shutting down the assembly line thing is just so darn bogus. That's the life blood. , and yNo one messes with that or you have ten regular employees down your throat, with 3 hourly leaders kicking your backsideour boss writing you up, and the plant manager kicking his back side. No, hourly folks don't shut down the assembly line on purpose for fun or a nap. Not more than once. That's definitely a myth.

 

You sure do have the right!

But don't forget the part when management does periodic illegal line speed ups and cover that up.

oh spent 30+ with GM, retired/disability

[rhinoman]

90% of car parts come from mexico, canada, and china! same with construction materials.and do you remember what china puts in there drywall? toxic waste. with out union representation Who is going to stand up for the common worker. no one!

[CaveatLector]

Didn't Zantop previously go bankrupt before pilot unionization? And wasn't the next bankruptcy more to do with their foreign contracts that bellied up and broke the company?

 

Sure, they didn't like the unionization, but this was after the company had previously failed then made bad business decisions thus undercutting their capital and those jobs would have been lost regardless of unionization?

Zantop was a bulk cargo carrier. They weren't like UPS or FedEx. They didn't load air cargo into convenient capsules that would slide into the plane. They took anything you could strap down to a pallet and run to the back of the plane with a pallet jack. Then everything was manually tied down. That was their niche, being able to handle overnight handling of large and unwieldy items. I saw everything from circus animals to Guns n' Roses touring gear go through there. Zantop began in the 50's as that type of cargo transport took off. Their bread and butter was auto related. So they grew with the big 3 through the 70s. In the 80s they took a big hit. It wasn't due to anything international as their international flights were not regular nor were they part of the hub. Their international flights were contracts per job and not on an ongoing basis. Those types of flights continued for more than 10 years after the major hub operations were shut down. So, no, international flights were not the make or break for Zantop.

 

They had created a company big enough to keep up with big 3 demands and suddenly had to downsize to pare down to the lessening demands. Their business problems were a result of a changing market. At some point they had to pass off loss to employees to stay afloat. No one got cuts in pay it's just that the pilots felt that their labor was worth more since their counterparts were making more with commercial passenger airlines. Zantop had been operating at break even for a long time in an effort to accomodate employees. When the pilots unionized and wanted 10k+ more/year that was the last straw. Zantop didn't go bankrupt they simply could not afford to stay in business so they closed major hub operations. They continued to move freight for some years to come but it was a contract thing and not as a common cargo carrier.

[Restorium2]

Zantop was a bulk cargo carrier. They weren't like UPS or FedEx. They didn't load air cargo into convenient capsules that would slide into the plane. They took anything you could strap down to a pallet and run to the back of the plane with a pallet jack. Then everything was manually tied down. That was their niche, being able to handle overnight handling of large and unwieldy items. I saw everything from circus animals to Guns n' Roses touring gear go through there. Zantop began in the 50's as that type of cargo transport took off. Their bread and butter was auto related. So they grew with the big 3 through the 70s. In the 80s they took a big hit. It wasn't due to anything international as their international flights were not regular nor were they part of the hub. Their international flights were contracts per job and not on an ongoing basis. Those types of flights continued for more than 10 years after the major hub operations were shut down. So, no, international flights were not the make or break for Zantop.

 

They had created a company big enough to keep up with big 3 demands and suddenly had to downsize to pare down to the lessening demands. Their business problems were a result of a changing market. At some point they had to pass off loss to employees to stay afloat. No one got cuts in pay it's just that the pilots felt that their labor was worth more since their counterparts were making more with commercial passenger airlines. Zantop had been operating at break even for a long time in an effort to accomodate employees. When the pilots unionized and wanted 10k+ more/year that was the last straw. Zantop didn't go bankrupt they simply could not afford to stay in business so they closed major hub operations. They continued to move freight for some years to come but it was a contract thing and not as a common cargo carrier.

Yup. that's it, Epic Business Failure blamed on everything from lazy employees to Obama, businesses just fail. Don't let bad business decisions, and obsolete business models, be the leverage to change things for the worse for employees. That's what is going on. The world is changing so fast that businesses are not changing fast enough to keep up and people at the top of those businesses will lie their backsides off to cover their mistakes and get cheaper labor. They think that eventual cheaper labor is the silver lining of their 'self created' dark cloud. What they are selling you is only true because they hold the ledgers.

[knucklehead bob]

What You Need To Know About The Michigan GOP’s ‘Right-To-Work’ Assault On Workers