Second Thoughts On 4856 - The Michigan Penal Code Is Amended-Lets Have A Discussion.

[Michael Komorn]

PLEASE READ THIS THREAD WITH CAUTION! NONE OF THE BELOW IS INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVISE, DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. IT IS MERELY POSTED AS AN OPENING DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT THE IMPACT OF THIS LEGISLATIVE ACT 4856 DOES TO THE PRIOR LEGAL LANDSCAPE IN MICHIGAN REGARDING USABLE MARIHUANA, UNUSABLE MARIHUANA, TRANSPORTING MARIHUANA AND BEHAVIOR INVOLVING MARIHUANA BY A PERSON, AS NOW DEFINED IN THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE, PURSUANT TO 4856.

ANYONE WHO READS THE BELOW AS ADVISE WILL SURELY END UP A TEST CASE, WHICH IS THE MOST UNPLEASANT PLACE TO FIND YOURSELF, PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO FOLLOW THESE WORDS AS LEGAL ADVICE.

 

 

Lets start with the obvious conflict that exist now:

section 4 a and b protects a patient or caregiver from arrest prosecution or any penalty so long as they are not in violation section 7. The limitation to protections against arrest for patients and caregivers come from section 4 and section 7. Possession for patients and caregivers is subject only to the MMMA, and does not apply in or to the Michigan Penal Code (O'Connell and Byslma). Marihuana remains illegal except for limited exemptions for persons with serious or debilitation conditions.

 

4856 directly conflicts with section 4 a and b, and can not be reconciled.

More importantly 4856 punishes persons only, not patients or caregivers, and section 4 a and b were not amended, and still remain as protections different than the persons 4856 seeks to punish for this behavior.

 

 

 

A bill to amend 1931 PA 328, entitled

"The Michigan penal code,"

(MCL 750.1 to 750.568) by adding section 474.

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN ENACT:

SEC. 474. (1) A PERSON SHALL NOT TRANSPORT OR POSSESS USABLE

MARIHUANA AS DEFINED IN SECTION 26423 OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH CODE,

1978 PA 368, MCL 333.26423, IN OR UPON A MOTOR VEHICLE OR ANY SELF-

PROPELLED VEHICLE DESIGNED FOR LAND TRAVEL UNLESS THE USABLE

MARIHUANA IS 1 OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING:

(A) ENCLOSED IN A CASE THAT IS CARRIED IN THE TRUNK OF THE

VEHICLE.

(B) ENCLOSED IN A CASE THAT IS NOT READILY ACCESSIBLE FROM THE

INTERIOR OF THE VEHICLE, IF THE VEHICLE IN WHICH THE PERSON IS

1 TRAVELING DOES NOT HAVE A TRUNK. 2 (2) A PERSON WHO VIOLATES THIS SECTION IS GUILTY OF A 3 MISDEMEANOR PUNISHABLE BY IMPRISONMENT FOR NOT MORE THAN 93 DAYS OR 4 A FINE OF NOT MORE THAN $500.00, OR BOTH.

 

 

 

4856 amends the Michigan Penal Code to acknowledge a lawful way to transport usable marijuana (as defined in the MMMA) and refers to the definition section of the MMMA.

Any person can now transport unusable marihuana in the car and have it laying open on the passenger seat anywhere- one could say?

Or if it is in a case or in the trunk a person is protected, because that behavior is lawful. It is not merely protected from arrest, prosecution or any penalty, IT IS PROTECTED BECAUSE IT IS A LAWFUL WAY TO CARRY MARIHUANA IN A CAR. IT IS LAWFUL.

 

On a larger scale beyond the search issues and all the bad that it does, is this the amendment that was needed to codify the act as legit? Or said another way a legal right?

 

Does this new law speak to the theme running through all those COA opinions and the MSC that has stated up to now, that the MMMA didn't amend the Michigan Penal Code legalizing the use of marihuana, it merely carved out limited exemptions for people with serious and debilitating conditions.

 

If a person may now carry unusable marihuana in a car, without the need for a card,

1. This 4856 has acknowledged that unusable material ( as defined in the MMMA act) is not contraband, anymore. Anyone can possess it.

2. You don't need a card to or be a patient or need a medical reason to carry this non contraband substance- unusable material.

3. It is a crime for a person to do this if the material is usable, but you are protected for doing it if its in the trunk or in a case if in the interior of the vehicle. A specific protection or a right if done in accordance with this rule.

4. Or said another way usable material may now be possessed and transported by a person and so long as it is in the trunk or in a case that is locked with in the interior of the vehicle it is not a crime and therefore is lawful.

5. This is obvious in conflict of the unlawful possession, use, delivery etc of marihuana by a person in other sections of the Michigan Public Health Code section 333.

6. But by itself 4856 seemingly describes marhuana behavior that is lawful if done in accordance with the rules contained therein by a person.

7. This has not yet been done, and the judiciary has consistently ruled that no rights exist, only immunity from arrest. Here the Legislature has stated a specific protection for this type of behavior (not in the MMMA) but in the Michigan Penal Code.

8. This new law is in the Michigan Penal Code and for the first time ever since the MMMA was enacted, the MPC is recognizing a way to engage in some form of marihuana use.

 

Is marihuana still illegal under state law? Not if it is in your trunk locked in a case. Or if it is unusable ?

[mibrains]

thank you MK.

 

[cbenton]

Wait, so anyone that doesn't participate in the MMMA can have marijuana in their possession aslong as it's in a locked case in the trunk? Then how do you constitute whether someone is in possession with intent to distribute? What are the amounts allowed by the bill/act? I think that the grey area's are a little to wide because it doesn't seem like there is a stature to limitations that a non-MMMA patient/caregiver can have in the trunk of a car. Also what constitutes unusable? Is it the same as the MMMA definition of unusable material or could I have plants or clones sitting in my back seat and claim it's unusable?

[+Malamute]

This would just add another crime to possessing marijuana and transporting improperly for non-pt/cg's.

 

Possession is still illegal. If transporting in trunk, it simply saves you from an added misdemeanor crime created by 4856.

 

But these are definite reasons of confusion to show why this law should just be repealed.

[Chauncy Gardner]

Is it possible that the legislature made a number of grievous errors here? Is it possible that they thought they were amending the MMMA but instead ended up altering the CSA?

[t-pain]

what happens when the penal code conflicts with itself?

 

http://legislature.m...px?mcl-333-7401

Sec. 7401.

 

(1) Except as authorized by this article, a person shall not manufacture, create, deliver, or possess with intent to manufacture, create, or deliver a controlled substance, a prescription form, or a counterfeit prescription form. A practitioner licensed by the administrator under this article shall not dispense, prescribe, or administer a controlled substance for other than legitimate and professionally recognized therapeutic or scientific purposes or outside the scope of practice of the practitioner, licensee, or applicant.

 

(2) A person who violates this section as to:(d) Marihuana or a mixture containing marihuana is guilty of a felony punishable as follows:

.

(i) If the amount is 45 kilograms or more, or 200 plants or more, by imprisonment for not more than 15 years or a fine of not more than $10,000,000.00, or both.

 

(ii) If the amount is 5 kilograms or more but less than 45 kilograms, or 20 plants or more but fewer than 200 plants, by imprisonment for not more than 7 years or a fine of not more than $500,000.00, or both.

 

(iii) If the amount is less than 5 kilograms or fewer than 20 plants, by imprisonment for not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $20,000.00, or both.

 

maybe we should just ignore it and keep quiet

 

i can already see the headlines, "John Walsh ®-Livonia Legalizes Marijuana In Your Car".

Edited December 24, 2012 by t-pain

[pic book]

is this the legislation that results when legislators smoke crack believing it to be unusable marijuana?

[t-pain]

this is the legislation that results when two parties conspire to exclude other political parties from participating.

this is the result of a national 8th grade reading level and the desire to elect people who have good hair.

this is the result of electronic election fraud, vote supression, voter disenfranchising, gerrymandering and other moo poo.

this is the result of private prisons corrupting our country.

the result of people who have ZERO compassion for the sick.

the result of religious whackadoos war on science and knowledge.

 

but really i have no idea. they did a 'study' on the impacts of the bill. you'd think they would have caught problems like this then.

Edited December 24, 2012 by t-pain

[maxmax]

What a great Christmas gift they have given us

 

[JustDanMI]

Wow, interesting angle. Not really sure if it conflicts with the rest of the Michigan Public Health Code when the MPHC starts off with :

 

"Sec. 7401.

 

(1) Except as authorized by this article, a person shall not manufacture, create, deliver, or possess with intent to manufacture, create, or deliver a controlled substance, a prescription form, or a counterfeit prescription form."

 

4856 now authorizes it......

[maxmax]

Wow, interesting angle. Not really sure if it conflicts with the rest of the Michigan Public Health Code when the MPHC starts off with :

 

"Sec. 7401.

 

(1) Except as authorized by this article, a person shall not manufacture, create, deliver, or possess with intent to manufacture, create, or deliver a controlled substance, a prescription form, or a counterfeit prescription form."

 

4856 now authorizes it......

 

Dream on

[restlesslegs]

The question is a bit mute don't you think? As soon as you open that locked box or trunk it is now useable mj and no longer in a locked box, does this now make it illegal?

[Herb Cannabis]

The question is a bit mute don't you think? As soon as you open that locked box or trunk it is now useable mj and no longer in a locked box, does this now make it illegal?

 

This smacks of NY and the way the cops make a person empty out their pockets, boom, you're busted for having pot in public.

[bobandtorey]

 

 

This smacks of NY and the way the cops make a person empty out their pockets, boom, you're busted for having pot in public.

I agree their is something fishy here but the courts will figure it out and it will cost some one their freedom and their car

[Chauncy Gardner]

this is the legislation that results when two parties conspire to exclude other political parties from participating.

this is the result of a national 8th grade reading level and the desire to elect people who have good hair.

this is the result of electronic election fraud, vote supression, voter disenfranchising, gerrymandering and other moo poo.

this is the result of private prisons corrupting our country.

the result of people who have ZERO compassion for the sick.

the result of religious whackadoos war on science and knowledge.

 

but really i have no idea. they did a 'study' on the impacts of the bill. you'd think they would have caught problems like this then.

 

 

You appear to have the same attitude problem that I have. I find it mind boggling that the voters have given the country over to a merry band of idiots.