Dwc Droopy Plant What Is Wrong Here

[ruan1980]

I've got 4 indica's 2 weeks into 12/12. room temp: 70-79, humidity: 30%, ph 6.2, ppm: 1630

They are split into two totes with two plants each. 8 gallons or recirculating water each. Using full line of Green planet nutrients w/RO water. 600w aircooled hood.

 

1 plants has already died, now there are 3. The dead one started out looking droopy just like in this photo and eventually just dried up. Stayed green but dried up and died. This plant was in the same tote and now I am worried the same will happen.

 

I thought algae was growing because it smelled a bit like a fish aquarium. This is my 3rd grow and this smell is new to me. So I did an entire reservoir change 20 hours ago and I see no improvement. What could this be.

 

Could this be temp?? to cold?? The other plants are doing great.

 

This looks like over watering if it was soil , which may be low oxygen water but I am pumping a lot of oxygen in there. To be completely honest I use a waterfall system to get the oxygen into the water. I have done 3 full grows already using waterfall and it has always produced big white rootballs. The roots are big and healthy white looking. I am totally lost here. I do not want to lose another one. FYI the two plants in the other tote are quite healthy and doing great.

 

 

Side note, if anyone has used Green Planet can you tell me if it's ph perfect. My RO water comes in at 6.7ph but after I mix all the nutes it goes down to 5.3ph. Not too sure if that's supposed to happen.

 

One last piece of info. When I put them into 12/12 I may have used too much benefitial bacteria, it foamed a lot. This res change last night I omitted the bacteria altogether. maybe it's nothing I dunno.

[ruan1980]

 

 

front right is the healthy one , back left is the droopy sick girl.

[shredder0911]

I had a similar problem with my 1st grow here in Mi, and spent a lot of $ on several things, so not sure exactly what worked but I lost 8 of my 1st 11 plants. I had grown in other places using the same DWC buckets and method, and never saw these problems before. As far as I can tell my plants wilted due to either pythium root rot or fusarium wilt, both of which I believe are fungal diseases. However, when this happened, my roots were not white and healthy, but were brown and sort of slimey and had that fishy aquarium smell. I got some hydrogen peroxide and treated all plants first, and then I purchased and used all of the following, so not sure which was the cure: green planet bio-gold (beneficial microbes), Multi-zen (house and garden I think), Wilt-guard (mail order). I read that warm temps cause the aforementioned diseases, but had grown in much hotter climates before. It seems like DWC is like a healthy aquarium, without the beneficial bacteria, the water cannot hold oxygen and fish cannot survive. However, this is just a theory, but I did breed and raise African Cichlids for many many years. I am experimenting with lactic acid bacteria now, for compost piles and worm bin, but haven't tried it in my DWC water yet. Good Luck!

[shredder0911]

At the minimum, I would separate the droopy one from the others and put it in its own bucket. Also, don't use the same water pump or hose on this one as the others, which I believe is how the fungus spread from 1 bucket to the others in my case.

[pic book]

the fish smell is the clue, must sanitize every milimeter of surface and knock it. also, separate the sick plant.

[shredder0911]

Not sure whether it caused or contributed, but I added "sugar in the raw" to my water just before my problems started. I noticed the pH was all over the place, high and low, and flushed all with warm water and re-filled. But one by one they just started drooping, but remained very green and kind of rubbery looking. The guy at the grow store told me he adds molassas to his water every week, so not sure whether the sugar had anything to do with it or not. I do know some people believe plants cannot uptake sugars via the roots, but not sure whether I am convinced because years ago I would do this at the end of every flower period. Let me/know if there was any sugars involved, since I am still trying to figure out what went wrong here.

[Hempcheff]

water temp is too high, and your ph should be @5.7

[Highlander]

Noone should grow DWC without keeping track of the water temps. A little bit of the wrong bacteria in 70 degree water is all it takes.

 

Whatever you do, don't stick your hand in the water and say "hmmm, feels cool to me."

 

Get a thermometer. Your next investment will probably be a chiller, but this time of year you can get by on the cheap. Get yourself a small water pump and them pump your water to the outdoors through a coiled up hose, then back into your res.

 

Enzymes (Senizyme, hygrozyme, etc.) will help bring back the marginal plants and help to kill whatever back bacteria is in your system. But remember, don't use H2O2 with an enzyme product, the H2O2 will kill the enzymes. Your best bet is to take each plant out and wash the roots with H2O2 until they quit fizzing, then rinse then off with water before you put them back in the system.

 

Once things are stabilized, if you use the enzymes at about 1/4 strength and keep your nute solution under about 66 degrees, you'll probably never have this issue again.

 

I had a bab run with this exact problem. It took a couple of months before I had everything dialed back in. But last summer, even with room temps of 90-95, my water stayed in the 60s, and I had no issues at all. Oh, and I haven't washed out a single DWC bucket in probably two years now.

 

A well-dialed-in DWC will just about run itself

 

Good luck.

[LongHairBri]

I'd scope those roots. are there clumps of off-colored slimy or dead looking roots? at a glance the sick plant looks drowned. parasites, bad air stone, bad timer....something

 

my guess is root aphids

[Dlo]

More air to the roots and colder water is my guess also.

[pic book]

water temp is too high, and your ph should be @5.7

his ppms are high too, yet other plants are ok and not 'fishy'

[Highlander]

his ppms are high too, yet other plants are ok and not 'fishy'

 

I have never seen a plant droop from overfeeding.

 

The nute solution temp is as important as pH, ppm when in DWC. In fact probably more important. I can run my pH anywhere for the high 4's to the high 8's and nutes as high as 1,800ppm for a few days, and the plants get really mad, but they always recover.

 

One day of 80 degree water can be a death sentence.

 

An accurate diagnosis of this grower's problem cannot be determined until the water temp is known.

[OG Fire Beaster]

Hygrozyme, bleach, and h202 will all help. Don't worry about killing anything beneficial, they are not required for your plant to live. A plant that is alive is better than a plant that is dead but still has beneficial bacterias and enzymes in the root zone. keep your water colder and clean everything with bleach. 10-15ml of bleach in 5 gals of water will not hurt anything. As your temps climb so will your PH. Never ran sugar in a DWC, sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. If you continue to have solution problems try an easier medium like coco, rock wool, or peat.

[semicaregiver]

I would go w/ Highlander on this one. Water temp is critical in a dwc. Elevated water temps will accelerate any and all root problems. Check water temp and shoot for 70 or high 60's at the most. There is a slight chance you can save the plant w/ a folair spray. The spray will get nutrients to the plant since the roots are unable to at this point. I have had good luck w/ a folair product called Root Rush.

[Highlander]

Hygrozyme, bleach, and h202 will all help. Don't worry about killing anything beneficial, they are not required for your plant to live. A plant that is alive is better than a plant that is dead but still has beneficial bacterias and enzymes in the root zone. keep your water colder and clean everything with bleach. 10-15ml of bleach in 5 gals of water will not hurt anything. As your temps climb so will your PH. Never ran sugar in a DWC, sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. If you continue to have solution problems try an easier medium like coco, rock wool, or peat.

 

Unless you just paid $50 for a liter of hygrozyme, then you don't want to flush your $50 down the drain if you use both that and the H2O2 at the same time.

 

I agree that sugar in DWC is a disaster waiting to happen.

[t-pain]

are your airstones bubbling properly? dont forget to clean those in some bleach water for a while.

hows the water? is it 99% liquid , or is there lots of particles of crap in there ? the crap can clog the airstones.

 

droopy overwatered plants in soil are because the roots cant get oxygen. thats why i'm asking how your stones are doing.

 

i saw a video where a guy cut back near 80% of his roots and the plants recovered well.

course, that was with healthy plants , he was growing three in a bucket and had to take out the males...

since the roots grew together , he just chopped em all down to 4 inches (as long as some roots are in your water, you're solid.)

 

bm bacteria foams. compost tea foams. tis normal, unless you're talking about foam that bubbles out and drips down your buckets.

water temps are supposed to be 65F i think. theres a chart somewhere that explains temps...

 

if your plant gets worse and you want to do a hail mary on it...

throw it in a bucket of dirt, see if it recovers? possibly a bad idea , better than watching it die a slow death. 's up to you.

 

good luck!

[ruan1980]

upon closer inspection of the roots I have noticed that they are slimy. They aren't really brown but sort of off white with a clear/tan slime. I did as one post suggested and cleaned with H2O2. about to check on them when lights go on in a few min.

 

The water temps are in the 60's, the air temps range from 72-79f. This is a new location. The old location used to get up to 92f and I never had an issue with fungus or water temps. I keep the water moving with a pump waterfall system in each bucket which creates a lot of DO.

 

The lids of these totes are yellow. They were in 12/12 for two weeks and I noticed that they are quite transparent. I believe that I didn't have this problem before because before I used a screen of green and the canopy blocked all the light from penetrating the lids. There is no screen now and the light shines right on through. Could this cause the problem? I have just covered the entire lid with Mylar so hopefully that helps.

 

I already use zyme caps from green planet. The benefitial bacteria I used (which I discontinued in the last flush) is called pond and fountain. I have always used this stuff and never a problem. Don't know if it helps or not but I use this brand because it's cheaper than hydroponic specific brands.

 

One post implied root aphids. Can there be root aphids in hydroton dwc?

[Highlander]

upon closer inspection of the roots I have noticed that they are slimy. They aren't really brown but sort of off white with a clear/tan slime. I did as one post suggested and cleaned with H2O2. about to check on them when lights go on in a few min.

 

The water temps are in the 60's, the air temps range from 72-79f. This is a new location. The old location used to get up to 92f and I never had an issue with fungus or water temps. I keep the water moving with a pump waterfall system in each bucket which creates a lot of DO.

 

The lids of these totes are yellow. They were in 12/12 for two weeks and I noticed that they are quite transparent. I believe that I didn't have this problem before because before I used a screen of green and the canopy blocked all the light from penetrating the lids. There is no screen now and the light shines right on through. Could this cause the problem? I have just covered the entire lid with Mylar so hopefully that helps.

 

I already use zyme caps from green planet. The benefitial bacteria I used (which I discontinued in the last flush) is called pond and fountain. I have always used this stuff and never a problem. Don't know if it helps or not but I use this brand because it's cheaper than hydroponic specific brands.

 

One post implied root aphids. Can there be root aphids in hydroton dwc?

 

Did you use a chiller? It would be about impossible to keep nute solution temps in order if the ambient environment is in the 90s. Do you monitor your temps constantly? The root slime smacks of a bacterial infection. Something isn't adding up here.

[Camnibus]

Eight gallons of recriculating water each? Meaning no reservoir?, gotta go with high water temps and root rot.

[ruan1980]

Each tote is a 15 or 16 gallon tote. Each one has 8 gallons, actually it's 30 liters of water. Each one has a pump that pumps the water back into itself in a waterfall fashion. The room temps are 79f with lights on, 70f with lights off. I am now convinced, after reading these replies that the slime is some sort of fungus or bacteria. I put the infected plant into a H2O2 bath solution, which cleaned up the root ball pretty nicely, and put H2O2 into the water. I will check their progress when the lights come on. If they aren't improved then I will do a complete cleanse of tote and roots.

 

I'm wondering if the penetrating light that got into the totes could have caused this.

 

The 90f temps were a past grow in a different location. And 90f was at canopy level. Under the screen was much cooler. I just brought that up because I had no water problems even with those high temps. Never had a chiller, just the waterfall pumps going. Let me make this clear I have no air stones nor air pumps. All of my DO is generated by the waterfall.

[Dlo]

Get air stones. That is the prob.. at lest one of them. IMO

[Highlander]

Each tote is a 15 or 16 gallon tote. Each one has 8 gallons, actually it's 30 liters of water. Each one has a pump that pumps the water back into itself in a waterfall fashion. The room temps are 79f with lights on, 70f with lights off. I am now convinced, after reading these replies that the slime is some sort of fungus or bacteria. I put the infected plant into a H2O2 bath solution, which cleaned up the root ball pretty nicely, and put H2O2 into the water. I will check their progress when the lights come on. If they aren't improved then I will do a complete cleanse of tote and roots.

 

I'm wondering if the penetrating light that got into the totes could have caused this.

 

The 90f temps were a past grow in a different location. And 90f was at canopy level. Under the screen was much cooler. I just brought that up because I had no water problems even with those high temps. Never had a chiller, just the waterfall pumps going. Let me make this clear I have no air stones nor air pumps. All of my DO is generated by the waterfall.

 

Forget about what worked and/or what didn't cause a problem in another location. High water temps are Russian roulette - won't kill right away every time, but eventually, it will.

 

If all you are doing to add oxygen to the roots is a waterfall thingy, you're missing out on the dissolved oxygen big time. Lots of little bubbles are what you need.

 

Water temp is critical in DWC. Don't guess at it. You would never guess your ppm or pH, why guess the temp?

 

When you did the peroxide root wash, did you get lots of fizz? If so, you know you have lots of bacteria to kill.

 

What is the temperature of the water in each tote? If you can't answer this, you might get past this event, but you will struggle with DWC forever.

[Spartyon]

as far as sugar goes i use sucant a powdered organic version of molasiss. Trick cant overdue it or you get foaming and slimy roots and i only use it when flushing the last 10 to 12 days

[t-pain]

nevermind, i dont know dwc well enough...

Edited December 29, 2012 by t-pain

[phaquetoo]

I learned how to kill plants doing dwc, man what a pain, im sure when ya get it down there is none better, but no thanks, plus what color is your tote, you cant let the lights penetrate the tote and get to the water that will mess ya up! brown slimmy roots, and even some green on them roots if the lite is being exposed, most def you need to do some kind of ebb n flow on them babys, the water being changed constantly is easier to keep kewl. plus you realy need to have stones for bubbling and most def have some kind of resivoirs at each end, you can reuse after it goes thru, just check it, ph it and put it back in the beginning res, let it run thru and do it again, the chiller is your best bet, I tryed the cheap way and well you know what they say, you get what you pay for!

 

Peace

Jim