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Outdoor Grows Legal Prior To Hb4851


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What about a second [or third!] floor deck w/ railings on the bottom os walls, shade screen up to 80". Top open or ??? easily justified [the First Grow] by not having to pay Edison to grow for a year. No Perm Structures here over 15' around . Else a dome or some kinda enclosed greenhouse. That you can keep a close eye on.

 

Here's what Im talkin about...Health and Sustainability ... jungle w.Oakland ! style ...love this guy!

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Don't forget 'their' rules for 'mobile scene of a crime'. They have stretched that little ditty to the max over the years. The bar for getting a warrant is much lower than a stationary target. You would be inspected often.

75% of mj busts are vehicle related in 2010--Mi State Hwy Patrol

Edited by pic book
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You all can think as you like, as for me when I read enclosed on all sides accept for the base it says to me they count the bottom as a side so will also count the top.

 

I'm not sure why people always want to see what they can get away with this is the kind of bs that got them messing with the act in the first place

Edited by itisi
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You all can think as you like, as for me when I read enclosed on all sides accept for the base it says to me they count the bottom as a side so will also count the top.

 

I'm not sure why people always want to see what they can get away with this is the kind of bs that got them messing with the act in the first place

 

 

You correct as far as not taking the un needed risk..... but why do people do it? why do free people strive to be free? this kind of bs has nothing to do with them messing with the law. they been chasing that plant for 70 plus years and you think they all of sudden got mad about an outdoor grow lol

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/side

 

2. A surface of an object, especially a surface joining a top and bottom: the four sides of a box.
 
 
 
 im not making the argument you dont need a top, im saying stop acting like people are retarded fro questioning it. I dont think its worded the best.
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You correct as far as not taking the unneeded risk..... but why do people do it? why do free people strive to be free? this kind of bs has nothing to do with them messing with the law. they been chasing that plant for 70 plus years and you think they all of sudden got mad about an outdoor grow lol

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/side

 

2. A surface of an object, especially a surface joining a top and bottom: the four sides of a box.
 
 
 
 im not making the argument you don't need a top, im saying stop acting like people are retarded fro questioning it. I don't think its worded the best.

When I was in school I was taught that a box has 6 sides.  In any case the only outdoor grows I've heard of getting busted didn't have a top, were not fastened to the ground or both with the exception of the guy that had mesh you could stick your arm through and all that happened was judge told him to put smaller mesh on his grow.

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gw...

 

further down the same page u quote..

 

 

 

   

 

top side, upper side, upside, top - the highest or uppermost side of anything; "put your books on top of the desk"; "only the top side of the box was painted"

5. side - an extended outer surface of an object; "he turned the box over to examine the bottom side"; "they painted all four sides of the house"

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If you do not own a pretty large piece of land that is very closed off I wouldn't even chance it. It just isn't worth the extra headaches you are bringing upon yourself. Keep it indoors and you have very little to worry about. Please save the (it is cheaper) or all the other BS, it won't be by the time you are done securing it. Also anytime LEO wants to after harvest they could easily swoop in and get you over limit on meds. You have all the control indoors and very little outdoors..

Please explain why your opinion whether or not I grow outside is correct, just because what you state might happen in your circumstances doesn't mean it will in mine. Please if you don't want to grow outdoors good for you but whether you like it or not it is cheaper for me outdoors than it is indoors.

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The issue here is the definition of, "sides." I think we can all agree on that. So, the question becomes, should we look to webster's to define, "side?" The answer is, "kind of."

 

You can define, "sides" via webster's so long as it doesn't conflict with the operational definition of the word as used in the statute. We all pretty much know what, "sides" means. Ganjawarrior pointed out that one definition of, "side" describes the four sides of a box. That would seem to indicate that a grow facility only needs 4 sides enclosed. However, that is an interpretation that completely ignores that fact that the law reads, ". . . enclosed on all sides, except for the base . . ." Making the base an exception indicates that the legislature's intent was to include it as a side. That being the case, the top would also be included as a side because it follows logically that if 4 sides and the base are, in fact, "sides," then the top is of the same category.

 

Rules of statutory construction and interpretation force this outcome. It doesn't matter what Stecker says. Furthermore, for those who choose to rely on what Stecker says you had better hope that your local police and prosecutor are relying on that as well. Keep in mind that Stecker has no power over any prosecutor. Nor is his opinion of law necessarily valued any more than any other lawyer. His opinion carries no weight, cannot be cited as legal authority or precedent, and won't help you if you are prosecuted.

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Trust me DLD, I don't care what you do.  But if you do decide to grow outdoors and it goes bad don't show up here next October and tell us about how your rights were violated or you were ripped off or that botritis destroyed your plants. Enjoy..

Edited by SFC
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Does the definition of "outdoors" mean nothing in the interpretation of this statute?

It matters inasmuch as it doesn't interfere with the rest of the statute.  Just like the term, "sides."  You cannot parse the statute and state that, "sides" means the 4 sides of a box and therefore nothing else matters.  "Sides" is modified and limited in its use by the way it is used in the statute.

 

Consider this--is a picnic pavilion an outdoor facility?  It has a roof.  What if you screened it in?  Is it an outdoor facility?  All depends on how you define outdoors.  I think it is fair to say that if it is permanently exposed to outside air then it is outdoors.  I think that getting into a battle of how outdoors it is won't help. 

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The issue here is the definition of, "sides." I think we can all agree on that. So, the question becomes, should we look to webster's to define, "side?" The answer is, "kind of."

 

You can define, "sides" via webster's so long as it doesn't conflict with the operational definition of the word as used in the statute. We all pretty much know what, "sides" means. Ganjawarrior pointed out that one definition of, "side" describes the four sides of a box. That would seem to indicate that a grow facility only needs 4 sides enclosed. However, that is an interpretation that completely ignores that fact that the law reads, ". . . enclosed on all sides, except for the base . . ." Making the base an exception indicates that the legislature's intent was to include it as a side. That being the case, the top would also be included as a side because it follows logically that if 4 sides and the base are, in fact, "sides," then the top is of the same category.

 

Rules of statutory construction and interpretation force this outcome. It doesn't matter what Stecker says. Furthermore, for those who choose to rely on what Stecker says you had better hope that your local police and prosecutor are relying on that as well. Keep in mind that Stecker has no power over any prosecutor. Nor is his opinion of law necessarily valued any more than any other lawyer. His opinion carries no weight, cannot be cited as legal authority or precedent, and won't help you if you are prosecuted.

We discussed this at length with Reps Horn and Cavanagh.

 

an outdoor grow could have a round shape all fenced in, or be a triangle.  Not just a square.  We always talked in terms like Cav does here:  a box does not have four sides, it has six.  Also if you consider the ground to be a side and they give you that exception, it would stand to reason you need a fenced in top as well.  I know for a fact that is what Reps Horn and Cavanagh favored.  

 

What does it say to a judge, a policeman or a prosecutor?  That is for a court case I suppose.

 

I personally was sort of surprised at Ken Stecker's interpretation.  Personally I would not follow his interpretation.  I would put a cover made of chain link on the top and be done with it.

 

As a side note:  I am not an attorney, so no one should rely on my opinion as legal advice.  I have sat through many meetings with MSP, PAAM, legislators and staff however, and that is what I base my opinion on...

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yes a greenhouse is outdoors....

 

if it was indoors it is called a sun room or solarium.

 

a top is a side.  just like a bottom side.  the bottom was specifically excluded so we don't need a concrete or wood floor... that way we can plant directly into the ground. (thank you)

 

top side

bottom side

right side

left side

in side

out side

front side

back side

 

all sides.... and clearly definable as such.

 

if you have the means and want to test the theory as to whether or not the legislators intended the use of a roof when they say a structure "enclosed on all sides" then good luck with that....

 

the words indicate that the intent of the legislative changes is to enclose the plants in a structure that does not allow entry from any unauthorized people...

it does not say unaided entry..

so a simple climb...

a complex climb....

any climb will clear any height of fence... even a 100 foot tall fence...

 

therefore it stands to reason the only way it is going to be allowable is to have something to stop a person from crossing over the crest...and into the plants enclosed area. (roof)  (open air roof) (closed air roof) but roof roof roof roof roof roof roof

 

it is ultimately up to each person to decide.. none of us knows for absolute...

 

- CAUTION -

 

i would error on the side of wisdom and my desire to minimize the possibility of being removed from my plants....

 

my advice?

 

if your not sure and confused about the possibility..call and ask your local prosecutor.  they will tell you and then you will know.

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Food for thought, we are reading a portion of the statute that is specifically concerned with regulating "Marijuana plants grown outdoors."

 

If a structure has a roof or top, are you growing outdoors?

 

It seems to me that the most important part of this section is the visibility requirement.

That all depends.  If it is simply an area enclosed by chain link or similar you are definitely growing out side.  A green house might be another matter, but I'm betting if a person can enter through the top or simply slice the plastic on the side walls and walk in these people will have issues with LEO.

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a simple question...

 

how tall must the "fence" be? to adequately qualify as an enclosure?

 

a 1 foot tall fence around the entire system in a complete loop would be definable as "enclosed"....do you think this would qualify?

 

when they say enclosed as presented.... did they mention a height?

 

seems to me if they had intended for a scenario where no roof was applicable they would have included a minimum height requirement for effective containment within the enclosure....

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