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Outdoor Grows Legal Prior To Hb4851


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First line second to last word, it does go on to further define an outdoor grow but still part of the same deffinition of enclosed locked facility.

 

 

(d) "Enclosed, locked facility" means a closet, room, or other comparable, stationary, and fully enclosed

area equipped with secured locks or other functioning security devices that permit access only by a registered

primary caregiver or registered qualifying patient. Marihuana plants grown outdoors are considered to be in

an enclosed, locked facility if they are not visible to the unaided eye from an adjacent property when viewed

by an individual at ground level or from a permanent structure and are grown within a stationary structure that

is enclosed on all sides, except for the base, by chain-link fencing, wooden slats, or a similar material that

prevents access by the general public and that is anchored, attached, or affixed to the ground; located on land

that is owned, leased, or rented by either the registered qualifying patient or a person designated through the

departmental registration process as the primary caregiver for the registered qualifying patient or patients for

whom the marihuana plants are grown; and equipped with functioning locks or other security devices that

restrict access to only the registered qualifying patient or the registered primary caregiver who owns, leases,

or rents the property on which the structure is located. Enclosed, locked facility includes a motor vehicle if

both of the following conditions are met:

Edited by itisi
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Maybe this might help.  A square, by definition, is a rectangle.  But it is a 'special' kind of rectangle, one with equal sides.  That doesn't change the fact it is still a rectangle.

 

A cube has six sides.  It is an enclosed three dimensional space.  It has two of those six side that have special names- a top, and a bottom, which describes more their location in the cube than anything else, but they are still just sides.  Rotate that cube and what was a 'side' just a second ago is now a 'top' or a 'bottom'.  But nothing changes, other than the position.

 

As CL mentioned, by mentioning the 'bottom' in the law, they clearly implied the presence of a 'top'.  They just excepted one 'side' of the cube in a particular position from being covered.  Take a dog pen, with an open top and an open bottom, and turn it on the side.  Now the top, bottom and two sides are covered, but it is no longer legal.

 

Yes it really is that simple.  Don't risk arrest trying to make an argument otherwise.

 

I would think the same simplicity could be used with Zap's Indoor/Outdoor question.  Help me out here CL, but I would think if it was fully enclosed, on a foundation, and taxable as a separate building (like a pole barn) on your property, it would be 'indoors'.  If it was open to the air, movable (not on a slab), and not considered a building for property taxes it would be 'outdoors'.  Another option might be if you could heat it.  I don't think you can 'heat' something outdoors, unless it was a specifically designated outdoor 'radiant heater'.  Or air condition it for that matter.

 

If it came down to a pissing contest between indoor and outdoor these might be helpful arguments to keep in the back of your head.  But rather than try and split frog hairs or find exceptions to the rule, I would prefer to be clearly indoor, clearly outdoor, and clearly address all six sides of the cube if it was my tail on the line or at risk of being on the line.

 

Dr. Bob

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Maybe this might help.  A square, by definition, is a rectangle.  But it is a 'special' kind of rectangle, one with equal sides.  That doesn't change the fact it is still a rectangle.

 

A cube has six sides.  It is an enclosed three dimensional space.  It has two of those six side that have special names- a top, and a bottom, which describes more their location in the cube than anything else, but they are still just sides.  Rotate that cube and what was a 'side' just a second ago is now a 'top' or a 'bottom'.  But nothing changes, other than the position.

 

As CL mentioned, by mentioning the 'bottom' in the law, they clearly implied the presence of a 'top'.  They just excepted one 'side' of the cube in a particular position from being covered.  Take a dog pen, with an open top and an open bottom, and turn it on the side.  Now the top, bottom and two sides are covered, but it is no longer legal.

 

Yes it really is that simple.  Don't risk arrest trying to make an argument otherwise.

 

I would think the same simplicity could be used with Zap's Indoor/Outdoor question.  Help me out here CL, but I would think if it was fully enclosed, on a foundation, and taxable as a separate building (like a pole barn) on your property, it would be 'indoors'.  If it was open to the air, movable (not on a slab), and not considered a building for property taxes it would be 'outdoors'.  Another option might be if you could heat it.  I don't think you can 'heat' something outdoors, unless it was a specifically designated outdoor 'radiant heater'.  Or air condition it for that matter.

 

If it came down to a pissing contest between indoor and outdoor these might be helpful arguments to keep in the back of your head.  But rather than try and split frog hairs or find exceptions to the rule, I would prefer to be clearly indoor, clearly outdoor, and clearly address all six sides of the cube if it was my tail on the line or at risk of being on the line.

 

Dr. Bob

That is soooo heavy.

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lets not forget tho...

 

a square..

a rectangle

a cube

 

all of these are just shapes.

 

shapes that define an area.

 

what if my chain-link greenhouse is made in the shape of a pyramid?

is it indoors? is it outdoors? would that be defined by the building materials?

 

the point is...

 

this is about the intent of the legislators.

 

what are they asking for? 

 

what is LEO going to demand when defining an enclosed space on all sides? 

i assume in my county they mean a top should be included as a roof to fully enclose an outdoor grow facility.

to enclose means to surround - at a minimum by the definition....

 

so to say you have to enclose and to say "all sides" is redundant... unless the implication is to include a top.

especially when you factor in they also excluded the base in the statement.

 

if your not sure..

 

ask your county prosecutor.

 

they have the final say on whether or not to charge you with any violations.

 

i feel like a lot of places will allow many variations of the definition of enclosed...and each county prosecutor will set the standard in their jurisdiction.

 

what works in my county may not work in Oakland.

 

be safe.. folks..

 

and error on the side of caution if possible.

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Do these  laws cover outdoor grows in a city like lets say Saginaw? As long as its locked and enclosed on all sides and cant be seen by neighbors.

 

Can I cover the top with see through plastic pole barn siding as long as its secure and my neighbors cant see in? And of course a fence or two?.

 

I have a private back yard on the outskirts of the city and would like to construct an outside grow room. Maybe or maybe not. Just thinking about it at this time.

 

 

Wozer

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Do these  laws cover outdoor grows in a city like lets say Saginaw? As long as its locked and enclosed on all sides and cant be seen by neighbors.

 

Can I cover the top with see through plastic pole barn siding as long as its secure and my neighbors cant see in? And of course a fence or two?.

 

I have a private back yard on the outskirts of the city and would like to construct an outside grow room. Maybe or maybe not. Just thinking about it at this time.

 

 

Wozer

Ask The Sheriff.

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in my opinion, "indoors" would mean conditioned space, ie: one with heat and water at very least.  I do not think that just because a pole barn is taxed, it would be considered "indoors", although it could be, if it had amenities that allow one to live in it....

Good point. Most localities consider a pole barn an 'out building' and it is under separate guidelines than your home. I think it was Cheboygan that passed an ordinance to exclude growing in out buildings.

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right...

primary structures.. home

non primary structures.. outbuildings

 

but still not outdoor necessarily...

 

its an interesting point and i have been trying to find a definition of indoors vrs outdoors..

 

now that they required a full enclosure.. is it still outdoor?

 

and most "buildings over 100 square feet (no matter what the building materials) need a permit unless specifically exempt...

 

it begs the question...at what point when fully enclosing a plant does it become indoors....

 

particularly when the view must also be blocked from any adjacent property

 

is it airflo? or plumbing? screens or solid wall? dirt floor, concrete or wood?

 

i know many greenhouses that open wide up, have fans, auxiliary light, and running water...

 

how about the way it is affixed?  well the law says permanently attached now so... that pretty much answers that one..

 

it is maybe not as simple as it seems...

 

i must admit... its a great question you asked chad... my initial answer a few pages back calling a indoor greenhouse a solarium might be by definition an interesting debate...

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