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Kingdiamond

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If a patient is unable (or willing) to compensate for a designated caregiver's overhead and effort, then that patient has the right to (and should) grow their own. Otherwise, you're contracting a person to grow for you--which, as with all contracts for labor/goods, requires compensation. It should be as simple as that. If you cannot grow your own, then you "hire" someone to grow for you.

 

I wouldn't expect anyone to provide me any sort of service for free. That's just silly. And the notion that a caregiver be expected to recoup the cost of growing/processing by simple selling off to a dispensary -- or hitting the streets -- just because "I signed over my grow rights" is equally asinine.

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If a patient is unable (or willing) to compensate for a designated caregiver's overhead and effort, then that patient has the right to (and should) grow their own. Otherwise, you're contracting a person to grow for you--which, as with all contracts for labor/goods, requires compensation. It should be as simple as that. If you cannot grow your own, then you "hire" someone to grow for you.

 

I wouldn't expect anyone to provide me any sort of service for free. That's just silly. And the notion that a caregiver be expected to recoup the cost of growing/processing by simple selling off to a dispensary -- or hitting the streets -- just because "I signed over my grow rights" is equally asinine.

 

A friend of mine used to turn the tables on these freebie requests. He'd ask the prospective patient, "since you're all about compassion and helping others, how about you pay a fair price for the meds you need and then YOU sell the excess to other patients. If you you're super-compassionate, then you can go sell the extra meds and give the cash back to the CG"

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O K just want to clear up some things. I'm not a care giver yet. still trying to finish my room and I'm so poor it's taking years. I had a problem and ask for help and got some and I didn't ask for a hand-out, but more of a loan. and Iv'e got means to repay I've got two plants three weeks in that are for just that. and I'm trading clones, labor, or what ever . but so far no one wants to be repaid. I'm supposed to do the same for someone else in need. but I can repay just don't know any other growers. and if I could get enough for a couple more weeks I'll be set. my new friend has got me covered after that.

Edited by cujo
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A friend of mine used to turn the tables on these freebie requests. He'd ask the prospective patient, "since you're all about compassion and helping others, how about you pay a fair price for the meds you need and then YOU sell the excess to other patients. If you you're super-compassionate, then you can go sell the extra meds and give the cash back to the CG"

 

LOL!

 

Didn't look at it that way, very true.

 

It all depends upon the CG's situation. In some situations, it is well worth giving a free ounce per month. In other situations, it is not worth it at all. It all depends upon the grower's intentions and the patients. Each situation is different.

 

Overages is no longer a problem for me. I have a good perpetual grow going where I don't go over my limit on a harvest. If I do end up with some excess, I make oil with it.

 

I can see both sides. I can surely see King's side! :)

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I agree it is HARD to find a Caregiver to provide a free ounce per month but that is a minimum for me- and yes, I have the ability to 'pay for it.'

 

However, I also have the ability to "grow it." In fact, I can legally grow 12 plants! :butt2:

Unless I wish to assign that right to a Caregiver. :blow-a-heart:

 

This is called an Assignation and it is worth something of value. You can certainly argue it is NOT worth an entire ounce each month but look at the numbers. With 12 plants it is hard but with 30, 40, or 72 slots once you get the garden up and running for 6 months you can EASILY harvest a pound or more every month from those 12 plants. This is another reason why dispensaries (or at least some other method of distribution outside the CG registry system) are implied under our law. Overages (and underages) are a simple fact when you are dealing with live crops.

 

Humm .. please stop saying it is easy to grow one pound plants.

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I agree it is HARD to find a Caregiver to provide a free ounce per month but that is a minimum for me- and yes, I have the ability to 'pay for it.'

 

However, I also have the ability to "grow it." In fact, I can legally grow 12 plants! :butt2:

Unless I wish to assign that right to a Caregiver. :blow-a-heart:

 

This is called an Assignation and it is worth something of value. You can certainly argue it is NOT worth an entire ounce each month but look at the numbers. With 12 plants it is hard but with 30, 40, or 72 slots once you get the garden up and running for 6 months you can EASILY harvest a pound or more every month from those 12 plants. This is another reason why dispensaries (or at least some other method of distribution outside the CG registry system) are implied under our law. Overages (and underages) are a simple fact when you are dealing with live crops.

 

Aren't you talking out of both sides of your mouth? On the one side, you say that it is nearly impossible NOT to grow overages with 12 plants per person, but then you also indicate that because we're dealing with live plants, we should expect crop failures.

 

So are 12 plants not enough? Or are they too much? What is the "right" number of plants? In my view and my experience, few patients need 12 plants. I have always felt that 12 plants offered plenty of security against crop failure for a moderately competent grower.

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I believe it's illegal to place value on plant rights like lawyercaregiver is suggesting. The intent shown by that line of thinking/acting is conspiracy to commit the illegal act of selling outside the registry, even if it's to offset your grow costs and give free meds away to the patient assigned.

 

Interesting.

 

Does section 4 tie specific plants to specific patients? Such that it is impossible to "reassign" the resulting meds?

 

 

(b) A primary caregiver who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for assisting a qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process with the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, provided that the primary caregiver possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed:

 

(1) 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana for each qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process; and

(2) for each registered qualifying patient who has specified that the primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility; and

(3) any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, and unusable roots.

 

Does "for each registered qualifying patient" mean that the plants are strictly for a specific patient? Or is it more general than that?

 

I agree w/your conspiracy standpoint though, and I've tried to warn people for close to four years now.

 

If a CG gets busted for dumping overages, how many people here really believe that he won't throw his patients under the bus. I can't tell you how many patients have said to me in an email "sign me up as your patient and give me a free oz. per month and sell the overages to whoever you want, I don't care."

 

If the end action (dumping the meds) is indeed a crime, then there is no way such a patient wouldn't be a co-conspirator. And a busted CG will likely drag the patient down too.

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The only 'value' you could assign to plant rights is an illegal one. You would have to do something illegal to recover what you have deemed a 'value'. Therefore, the whole idea is illegal conspiracy to commit a crime.

 

What is your thought on using meds from "patient A's" plants to assist "patient B?" Say, patient A has been around for a few years and patient B is new...and you just started clones. There is no recovery of value here, no payment, etc. Just garden management.

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What is your thought on using meds from "patient A's" plants to assist "patient B?" Say, patient A has been around for a few years and patient B is new...and you just started clones. There is no recovery of value here, no payment, etc. Just garden management.

Garden management is the caregiver's business. A caregiver can distribute within legal amounts from the plants they have legal access to. To think anything else is unmanageable.

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Garden management is the caregiver's business. A caregiver can distribute within legal amounts from the plants they have legal access to. To think anything else is unmanageable.

 

This is a bit like the McQueen ruling. The COA said that "medical use" is for the purpose of alleviating a patient's qualifying condition. And since a dispensary also has a business purpose, there is activity outside medical use.

 

It would follow then, that if a patient's involvement with MMJ is for a purpose other than alleviating his condition, then there is a problem. In this discussion, the patient's involvement with MMJ is for at least two purposes. 1. To treat his condition, 2. To support his CG's income with other patients.

 

Let's look at this from a "giveaway" position. If a patient approaches a CG and says,"I'll sign you up if you give me a free oz. per month and give all the rest away for free to other patients." Do we see a problem there?

Edited by Highlander
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any guess when I took a break from growing this summer?

 

001_zps7cc3a55d.jpg

 

 

the bill went from 500+ to 150.....man, that was a nice break. fully functional again and back to the big bills. at least this month I'll get something to show for it. nothing is more fun than covering a 500 light bill for 3 months with no income to help defer the costs. the next patient that complains about the costs WILL regret it.....I promise

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Aren't you talking out of both sides of your mouth? On the one side, you say that it is nearly impossible NOT to grow overages with 12 plants per person, but then you also indicate that because we're dealing with live plants, we should expect crop failures.

 

So are 12 plants not enough? Or are they too much? What is the "right" number of plants? In my view and my experience, few patients need 12 plants. I have always felt that 12 plants offered plenty of security against crop failure for a moderately competent grower.

 

Maybe but if someone only had seeds to start with I think it would change things

If you put 12 seeds in and they all came up how many may or may not be Females it's a 50-50 on getting 6 out of that IMHO

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:D Love it! Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I would be grateful for fan leaves if I was in dire straights.

 

 

 

Exactly! Use some common sense. If you're only growing for 1 or 2 people you don't need to flower 12 four foot plants.

 

It took me about a year to work out a growing schedule that would keep me supplied but not leave me with overages. It's more difficult stay within legal limits, but it is possible.

I agree but in that year if you we're to get raided you had too much on hand

Some people don't want to take any Chances because of the courts not letting anyone tell the jury their reason for being over

 

IMHO

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A friend of mine used to turn the tables on these freebie requests. He'd ask the prospective patient, "since you're all about compassion and helping others, how about you pay a fair price for the meds you need and then YOU sell the excess to other patients. If you you're super-compassionate, then you can go sell the extra meds and give the cash back to the CG"

 

Sell sell sell its not legal to do

Sorry

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O K just want to clear up some things. I'm not a care giver yet. still trying to finish my room and I'm so poor it's taking years. I had a problem and ask for help and got some and I didn't ask for a hand-out, but more of a loan. and Iv'e got means to repay I've got two plants three weeks in that are for just that. and I'm trading clones, labor, or what ever . but so far no one wants to be repaid. I'm supposed to do the same for someone else in need. but I can repay just don't know any other growers. and if I could get enough for a couple more weeks I'll be set. my new friend has got me covered after that.

 

Do you need meds? Are you out of meds?

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I believe it's illegal to place value on plant rights like lawyercaregiver is suggesting. The intent shown by that line of thinking/acting is conspiracy to commit the illegal act of selling outside the registry, even if it's to offset your grow costs and give free meds away to the patient assigned.

But now it's OK and you don't need to be assigned to any one?

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Interesting.

 

Does section 4 tie specific plants to specific patients? Such that it is impossible to "reassign" the resulting meds?

 

 

(b) A primary caregiver who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for assisting a qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process with the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, provided that the primary caregiver possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed:

 

(1) 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana for each qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process; and

(2) for each registered qualifying patient who has specified that the primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility; and

(3) any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, and unusable roots.

 

Does "for each registered qualifying patient" mean that the plants are strictly for a specific patient? Or is it more general than that?

 

I agree w/your conspiracy standpoint though, and I've tried to warn people for close to four years now.

 

If a CG gets busted for dumping overages, how many people here really believe that he won't throw his patients under the bus. I can't tell you how many patients have said to me in an email "sign me up as your patient and give me a free oz. per month and sell the overages to whoever you want, I don't care."

 

If the end action (dumping the meds) is indeed a crime, then there is no way such a patient wouldn't be a co-conspirator. And a busted CG will likely drag the patient down too.

 

WOW very good lets hope others are reading this and takes it as a warning

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This is a bit like the McQueen ruling. The COA said that "medical use" is for the purpose of alleviating a patient's qualifying condition. And since a dispensary also has a business purpose, there is activity outside medical use.

 

It would follow then, that if a patient's involvement with MMJ is for a purpose other than alleviating his condition, then there is a problem. In this discussion, the patient's involvement with MMJ is for at least two purposes. 1. To treat his condition, 2. To support his CG's income with other patients.

 

Let's look at this from a "giveaway" position. If a patient approaches a CG and says,"I'll sign you up if you give me a free oz. per month and give all the rest away for free to other patients." Do we see a problem there?

Only if you get caught doing so Conspiracy is big business for the courts

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This is a bit like the McQueen ruling. The COA said that "medical use" is for the purpose of alleviating a patient's qualifying condition. And since a dispensary also has a business purpose, there is activity outside medical use.

 

It would follow then, that if a patient's involvement with MMJ is for a purpose other than alleviating his condition, then there is a problem. In this discussion, the patient's involvement with MMJ is for at least two purposes. 1. To treat his condition, 2. To support his CG's income with other patients.

 

Let's look at this from a "giveaway" position. If a patient approaches a CG and says,"I'll sign you up if you give me a free oz. per month and give all the rest away for free to other patients." Do we see a problem there?

A serious credibility problem.

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Aren't you talking out of both sides of your mouth? On the one side, you say that it is nearly impossible NOT to grow overages with 12 plants per person, but then you also indicate that because we're dealing with live plants, we should expect crop failures.

 

So are 12 plants not enough? Or are they too much? What is the "right" number of plants? In my view and my experience, few patients need 12 plants. I have always felt that 12 plants offered plenty of security against crop failure for a moderately competent grower.

 

Consider this.

 

The federal program gives each patient 300 pre rolled joints per month. Over eight ounces. Per month

 

Whatever the condition.

 

I would say that amount is reasonable. After all, that's what the feds think.

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Consider this.

 

The federal program gives each patient 300 pre rolled joints per month. Over eight ounces. Per month

 

Whatever the condition.

 

I would say that amount is reasonable. After all, that's what the feds think.

 

8 oz per month reasonable - sure. I'll go along with that.

 

It is silly for someone to suggest that just because 12 plants CAN produce more than a patient needs, this means that the law was intended to allow for dispensaries. The point I was trying to make is that you can't say "12 plants isn't enough to ensure a continuous supply = we need dispensaries to be able to fill the void" and "12 plants is more than a patient needs. This is proof that the law allows for dispensaries." It seems that LawyerCaregiver wants it both ways.

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