What Type Of Access Do Patients Want?

[Restorium2]

Northern Lab, on 19 February 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

 

To clarify, 4271 gives local government authority to regulate/ban commercial operations only.

 

There is no authority granted that will permit regulation of individual caregiver and patient grows.

 

Even if it only went this far, which no one can say that, because we will never see the actual bill until it's signed, local government decides who IS a commercial operation.

They are one move away from doing what they will with every single grower in their area.

[Northern Lab]

 

 

yet.

 

I think any attempt to insert any sort of authority to regulate individual patient and caregiver grows would be a poison pill that would kill the bill.

 

Any attempt to give that authority to local communities would also alter the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act, requiring a 75 percent vote.

 

The way I understand it, this legislation only requires a simple majority..

[hic]

They want freedom OG

 

I would like to buy samples again. Although maybe this time with more fair prices and with a more professional attitude behind counters. Oh and good brownies! that's it.

Edited February 19, 2013 by hic

[Restorium2]

I think any attempt to insert any sort of authority to regulate individual patient and caregiver grows would be a poison pill that would kill the bill.

 

Any attempt to give that authority to local communities would also alter the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act, requiring a 75 percent vote.

 

The way I understand it, this legislation only requires a simple majority..

You think? You are wrong.

Here's an example you can't argue with;

Remember all those times that localities labeled having two caregivers in a home as a commercial enterprise? BOOM, you are done. There are many more examples, right down to the power you use being the line of whether you are commercial or not. Their tricks are endless and more than we can even dream up. How long does it take the Supreme Court to come to your rescue? Can you even bet on how they will decide? Do we really want to add another ring to this circus?

[Celliach]

[

To clarify, 4271 gives local government authority to regulate/ban commercial operations only.

 

There is no authority granted that will permit regulation of individual caregiver and patient grows.

 

The problem is they keep defining CGs as commercial operations.

[Celliach]

I think any attempt to insert any sort of authority to regulate individual patient and caregiver grows would be a poison pill that would kill the bill.

 

Any attempt to give that authority to local communities would also alter the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act, requiring a 75 percent vote.

 

The way I understand it, this legislation only requires a simple majority..

 

Why do think that about your first statement?

 

In regards to your second comment, they have already gotten the 75% once and shouldn't have a problem getting again in this congress.

 

Third statement, as it currently stands. It can be changed into anything. The conservative congress that we've had and currently have is gunning to get rid of or at the very least, regulate the law out of existence. the same way they are regulating abortion rights in other states (Mississippi, for one.), effectively banning abortions without actually banning them.

[Northern Lab]

Northern Lab, on 19 February 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

 

To clarify, 4271 gives local government authority to regulate/ban commercial operations only.

 

There is no authority granted that will permit regulation of individual caregiver and patient grows.

 

Even if it only went this far, which no one can say that, because we will never see the actual bill until it's signed, local government decides who IS a commercial operation.

They are one move away from doing what they will with every single grower in their area.

 

4271 defines the operations to be regulated, not the local government.

 

 

 

Why do think that about your first statement?

 

In regards to your second comment, they have already gotten the 75% once and shouldn't have a problem getting again in this congress.

 

Third statement, as it currently stands. It can be changed into anything. The conservative congress that we've had and currently have is gunning to get rid of or at the very least, regulate the law out of existence. the same way they are regulating abortion rights in other states (Mississippi, for one.), effectively banning abortions without actually banning them.

 

If they can get a 75 percent majority to regulate caregivers and patients out of existence, then why haven't they done so already?

 

[SFC]

Because nobody has tried..

[Highlander]

Because nobody has tried..

 

And why? I have a guess. They haven't had the money. Until recently.

 

4 years ago, there were no dispensaries in Michigan.

 

Now, we have dispensary interests that have been raking in the dough for three years.

 

And we can see how they have already spent some of that money. They got a bill written up that gives commercial interests more protections than patients and CGs have and a virtually limitless scheme to make money.

 

Fast forward four years. What will these dispensary interests think of then? After they have make another boatload or two of cash?

[Highlander]

OK Northern. Let's look at this a different way.

 

Let's say you're up there with your lab and all is going well.

 

Then some mega-lab comes along and gets a bill written up, and they make some tidy campaign fund donations. This new bill says "From now on, one one testing lab per county."

 

Maybe that is great for you. Maybe you're the only lab in the county already.

 

Would you support that bill?

 

What if you had an eye to open a lab in Oakland county and another in Washtenaw? But then this new bill pops up. Do you still support it?

[Herb Cannabis]

I've been reading what the highest dispensary advocates and lobbyists are saying to each other. They are saying that they don't know how the wording will turn out. But they have nothing to lose. They are just watching and waiting to see who their runaway train will run over.

 

Would you mind sharing what you have been reading and where to find it?

[Restorium2]

OK Northern. Let's look at this a different way.

 

Let's say you're up there with your lab and all is going well.

 

Then some mega-lab comes along and gets a bill written up, and they make some tidy campaign fund donations. This new bill says "From now on, one one testing lab per county."

 

Maybe that is great for you. Maybe you're the only lab in the county already.

 

Would you support that bill?

 

What if you had an eye to open a lab in Oakland county and another in Washtenaw? But then this new bill pops up. Do you still support it?

Don't forget the part about not knowing what the bill is going to actually do. Are you willing to roll the dice, all or nothing? I don't even think this is a fair analogy because the lab guy is just contemplating his money making adventure, not his choice of medicine and if he can grow it or not. This is much higher stakes gambling for the patient that grows. It's not just about money/business for them.

[Northern Lab]

OK Northern. Let's look at this a different way.

 

Let's say you're up there with your lab and all is going well.

 

Then some mega-lab comes along and gets a bill written up, and they make some tidy campaign fund donations. This new bill says "From now on, one one testing lab per county."

 

Maybe that is great for you. Maybe you're the only lab in the county already.

 

Would you support that bill?

 

What if you had an eye to open a lab in Oakland county and another in Washtenaw? But then this new bill pops up. Do you still support it?

 

I wouldn't support a bill like that in any form.

 

4271 doesn't do anything analogous to your hypothetical.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Northern Lab

[Restorium2]

I wouldn't support a bill like that in any form.

 

4271 doesn't do anything analogous to you hypothetical.

BS You don't know that. You can't possibly know that. Yet you pretend to. You are gambling with our rights on false hopes and bad info.

[Northern Lab]

 

Don't forget the part about not knowing what the bill is going to actually do. Are you willing to roll the dice, all or nothing? I don't even think this is a fair analogy because the lab guy is just contemplating his money making adventure, not his choice of medicine and if he can grow it or not. This is much higher stakes gambling for the patient that grows. It's not just about money/business for them.

 

You clearly do not know me. I am a caregiver for 5 patients. My wife is a patient.

 

So please, refrain from projecting onto me things you have no factual knowledge of.

 

 

 

BS You don't know that. You can't possibly know that. Yet you pretend to. You are gambling with our rights on false hopes and bad info.

 

I don't know that, but you know for certain that individual grow rights are under assault, even though this legislation doesn't authorize that.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Northern Lab

[Restorium2]

You clearly do not know me. I am a caregiver for 5 patients. My wife is a patient.

 

So please, refrain from projecting onto me things you have no factual knowledge of.

 

 

 

 

I don't know that, but you know for certain that individual grow right Sandra salt, even though this legislation doesn't authorize that.

I follow actions, not what people say they are. You are making all the wrong moves. Saying all the wrong things. You don't fit with someone who is concerned about the individual patient's grow rights. You post and act like someone who has a little something something going on to cover yourself if this goes wrong. I can only watch you go around the track for a few years to see how you roll. You have been going round and round and we see how you roll.

[Northern Lab]

 

 

Seriously, this must be a joke. There was absolutely ZERO authority in the MMMA for them to ban the behavior, but they did it anyway BECAUSE OF DISPENSARIES AND COMMERCIAL GROWS.

 

If this bill passes, it is going to set off another rush of dispensaries through the state, and the communities will have to act to ban again.

 

Now, I would hope that any dispensary that wants to operate in an untried area, or an area that rejected dispensaries before, would actually attempt some political work before opening. That has not been past behavior, however, and my hope is a mere hope. When there is profit to be made from causing confusion, conflict, and chaos, anything can happen.

 

I do not agree that these ordinances were born out of a desire to regulate dispensaries. 2 counties in my area tried to ban home grows, and there were no dispensaries in these counts.

 

 

 

Hello.

 

It does this simply by virtue of being a 50% bill.

 

Sorry, maybe I understood the hypothetical differently from you. I took it as the lab owner was analogous to a caregiver or patient.

 

 

[Northern Lab]

 

I follow actions, not what people say they are. You are making all the wrong moves. Saying all the wrong things. You don't fit with someone who is concerned about the individual patient's grow rights. You post and act like someone who has a little something something going on to cover yourself if this goes wrong. I can only watch you go around the track for a few years to see how you roll. You have been going round and round and we see how you roll.

 

Lol. Just because I don't buy into paranoid hysteria doesn't mean that I am NOT concerned about patient and caregiver grow rights.

 

I think we can all exist in harmony.

[Highlander]

I wouldn't support a bill like that in any form.

 

4271 doesn't do anything analogous to your hypothetical.

 

Yes it does. It creates a new business that is not currently legal in Michigan. That is where the analogy steps in. I tried to use labs as an example because I thought it would encourage you to think about how a dispensary might behave today when they are not legal vs a few years down the road after they build up some cash.

 

This is what I'm talking about. The point of a business is to make money. Right now, taking care of patients isn't a business. There is no significant profit in taking care of MMJ patients. So business doesn't care about this much. Give business the opportunity to make unlimited money, and now they will care. Businesses then make money, and then put that money to work to make even more money. One way to make more money is to limit the number of suppliers. But it takes money to get new laws passed.

 

Catch my drift now? Nobody is rich from MMJ in MI right now. Give people to opportunity to get rich off MMJ, and some people will get rich, and then will try to limit competition to make even more money.

 

This is the US of A. Capitalism...all that. But for some reason you seem to believe that people who make big business out of MMJ will be different than the people to got rich in other ways and are now limiting competition.

 

How about another for instance: Dispensary bills pass in Michigan, and some people start getting rich, and some businesses get richer. One of them is Monsanto. Big ol Monsanto lobbies to restrict home grows, patent seeds and plants, etc.

 

Oh, but Monsanto would NEVER do that with MMJ. They ONLY do that with corn.

 

So Northern, tell me why MMJ business will be so unique and void of these concerns?

[Restorium2]

Lol. Just because I don't buy into paranoid hysteria doesn't mean that I am NOT concerned about patient and caregiver grow rights.

 

I think we can all exist in harmony.

It is what it is. You are a commercial interest protecting yourself above anyone else. You refuse to listen to any logic even if a picture is drawn and colored in for you. Many leaders here have tried their hands at bringing you to the light yet something is firmly standing in the way. It's obvious what that is, your commercial interest.

[Restorium2]

Lol. Just because I don't buy into paranoid hysteria doesn't mean that I am NOT concerned about patient and caregiver grow rights.

 

I think we can all exist in harmony.

Just the fact that you call not knowing how the bill will look and work 'paranoid hysteria' proves that you will bend common knowledge into a tool to destroy truths put directly in front of your nose.

[Highlander]

As soon as they get a 50% bill, they will have investors.

 

Let's say back in the summer of 1996 I wanted to open a little dispensary in Cali and call it "Harborside." I talked to a few investors and raised some money. YAY! Open for business.

 

Fifteen years later my investors are paid off, and I have a successful business. I make $100,000 per month profit...well not profit because I can't actually profit. Now I want to branch out to Michigan! But dispensaries aren't legal there. No prob! I'll take a month's income and get some attorneys to write up a bill and hire a lobbyst. And while I'm at it, I might as well put a little something in to restrict grow rights. This will get LEO's support and will allow me to make even more money.

 

This is business 101 folks. Why do some people not see these dangers?

[phaquetoo]

As will we.

 

As will I, I have a response to the orignal post here, Its not bad, but it may not be good either, once again loose lips sink ships, and remember a pt can already get it where they want!

 

Peace

Jim

 

p.s im gonna read thru the rest of the thread before i respond to the first question! good Thread, we need to keep it real and keep thy lips sealed!

[michaelscott]

Rest, you know who you sound like in this thread?

...secret sources, insider information, fear mongering, maybe an unnamed rep will make an appearance soon?

 

I HEARD THE LANGUAGE WAS GONNA BE CHANGED AT THE LAST MINUTE TO ALLOW DISPENSARIES TO SELL METH.

[Restorium2]

Rest, you know who you sound like in this thread?

...secret sources, insider information, fear mongering, maybe an unnamed rep will make an appearance soon?

 

I HEARD THE LANGUAGE WAS GONNA BE CHANGED AT THE LAST MINUTE TO ALLOW DISPENSARIES TO SELL METH.

Go ahead an attack the messenger. I thought maybe knowing all 16 co-sponsors might be enough to convince you I wasn't fibbing. I don't make stuff up. If you hang around here long enough Mike you will learn that. It's how I roll. I will only post things that I know to be true. Everyone gets it wrong sometimes, but I will not fabricate to make a point.