What Type Of Access Do Patients Want?

[Highlander]

http://michiganmedic...l=&fromsearch=1

 

There are a handful of people like this in Michigan now.

 

Give them a way to make an unlimited amount of money of MMJ, and we can be sure of three things:

 

1. There will be many more than a handful;

2. Some of these people won't be satisfied and will push for ending home grows.

3. They will then have the money to lobby.

 

It doesn't matter what a dispensary bill says today. If such a bill allows unlimited profit, and it does, there is no reason to believe we're safe from 2 and 3.

[Northern Lab]

 

It is what it is. You are a commercial interest protecting yourself above anyone else. You refuse to listen to any logic even if a picture is drawn and colored in for you. Many leaders here have tried their hands at bringing you to the light yet something is firmly standing in the way. It's obvious what that is, your commercial interest.

 

Oh jeez. How ridiculous.

 

 

 

Just the fact that you call not knowing how the bill will look and work 'paranoid hysteria' proves that you will bend common knowledge into a tool to destroy truths put directly in front of your nose.

 

I am commenting on the bill as it is currently written. You are engaging in paranoid hysteric speculation based entirely in your perceptions. You cite no relevant facts, and you have yet to provide the rest of us with these conversations and quotes that only you are privy to.

 

Sorry if I don't buy what you're selling.

 

Rest, you know who you sound like in this thread?

...secret sources, insider information, fear mongering, maybe an unnamed rep will make an appearance soon?

 

I HEARD THE LANGUAGE WAS GONNA BE CHANGED AT THE LAST MINUTE TO ALLOW DISPENSARIES TO SELL METH.

 

Lol, exactly. It is patently ridiculous and laughable.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Northern Lab

[Restorium2]

Oh jeez. How ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

I am commenting on the bill as it is currently written. You are engaging in paranoid hysteric speculation based entirely in your perceptions. Yes I did no relevant facts, and you have yet to provide the rest of us with these conversations and quotes that only you are privy to.

 

Sorry if I don't buy what you're selling.

 

 

 

Lol, exactly. It is patently ridiculous and laughable.

You don't even know how the bill is currently written.

 

If you want to attack the messenger too then show where I was wrong about the 16 co-sponsors that no one could possibly guess without some insider knowledge. Attack the message not the messenger. Was I wrong?

Edited February 19, 2013 by Restorium2

[Northern Lab]

 

 

You don't even know how the bill is currently written.

 

If you want to attack the messenger too then show where I was wrong about the 16 co-sponsors that no one could possibly guess without some insider knowledge. Attack the message not the messenger. Was I wrong?

 

I am NOT attacking the messenger, I'm attacking his message.

 

I saw the sponsor list Thursday, was that before or after you did?

[mibrains]

right or wrong gentlemen..

 

it is a battle.

 

US against them...

 

not US against US.

 

lets all try to remember that this is only the beginning.

 

we must watch every day.

we must watch every legislator

we must watch every participant.

 

thank you all for the hard work and contributions thus far.

 

keep it up.

 

so much to do... so many to do it with....

[mibrains]

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.

[roadworkahead]

You don't even know how the bill is currently written.

 

If you want to attack the messenger too then show where I was wrong about the 16 co-sponsors that no one could possibly guess without some insider knowledge. Attack the message not the messenger. Was I wrong?

Will your county's prosecuting attorneys send cease and desist letters soon? Before the bill is even voted on?

[phaquetoo]

To me is putting the cart Ahead of the horse lots of people would like to grow but the risk is to great at getting raided

 

Once you eliminate the fear of that more people will want to grow

 

Yes Agreed! the more people get out and about and see what other pts with grow rights are doing and for how cheap (meaning lil g.r's not the pro's) they will want to do it them selves, Ya pretty much can do it if your in a wheel chair, am I right? With a lil advise and help from friends and keeping it simple, you can grow a very good med grade plant, and probably enjoy the heck out of it like me and every one else I know, the lil grows are all happy, the bigger grows have bigger bills for every thing, I buy im nutes in quarts, they buy theirs in 5 gallon buckets, im on a 221 a month no shut off electric bill, and they owe me money, my highest bill was last month, it was 20 over my stay on price!

 

This is a lil dream situation thing, im about to write, now your a pt and mybe your wife or partner is a pt, one of you keep the others grow rites and the other gets a good c.g, In this scenario you can legaly have 7.5 oz usable and 12 plants, say im the pt/cg in our house, I have a c.g, I can grow 12 plants for my pt, she can have 2.5 oz's of usable, I can have 2.5 of usable for her, and I can have 2.5 usable for me from my c.g, and he can have 2.5 for me and 12 plants! so that is potentialy 10 zips allowed with 2.5 off property (at my c.g's) and 7.5 on property, and yes, we put her 2.5 up in the bedroom in a safe, and mine and hers i keep in my locked room, (even though i dont believe I seen anywhere that says we cant have it together i just do it that way) that is the most usable mm i can figure how to have with only 3 people involved, A pt as a grower is not allowed to have 2.5 usable in one room, and another 2.5 usable for here locked in another room,

 

I dont beleive a pt grower can have their 2.5, 12 plants and an extra 2.5 like a c.g can have!?! If Im wrong about that could some one please copy and paiste the part of the law that discusses this! Im sick of reading the law, plus I woke up not feeling to well with all of this rain,snow and jsut b.s, my back was killing me till i ate close to a gram of one of my bho rolls! the bomb, smoke it eat it, touch it, no sticky fingers but its still finger licking good, uh oh gotta go, its realy kickin in!

 

Peace

Jim

[mibrains]

and yes, we put her 2.5 up in the bedroom in a safe, and mine and hers i keep in my locked room.....

 

check your own signature my friend....

[bobandtorey]

 

 

Yup. So our lawmakers could pass whatever new bill they want to all for dispensaries, etc. It could be rock-solid in support of home grows.

 

Fast forward two years. The guy down the street who owns the dispensary is making $80,000/month. The home grower down the street is still paying his light bill two weeks late every month.

 

Big dispensary guy drops $50,000 to have a new bill written up, to eliminate home grows. It has instant support of LEO agencies all over the state. How are we patients going to stop that?

 

Rally the troops ? IMHO we need a rally in Lansing ?

[bobandtorey]

 

 

Yes Agreed! the more people get out and about and see what other pts with grow rights are doing and for how cheap (meaning lil g.r's not the pro's) they will want to do it them selves, Ya pretty much can do it if your in a wheel chair, am I right? With a lil advise and help from friends and keeping it simple, you can grow a very good med grade plant, and probably enjoy the heck out of it like me and every one else I know, the lil grows are all happy, the bigger grows have bigger bills for every thing, I buy im nutes in quarts, they buy theirs in 5 gallon buckets, im on a 221 a month no shut off electric bill, and they owe me money, my highest bill was last month, it was 20 over my stay on price!

 

This is a lil dream situation thing, im about to write, now your a pt and mybe your wife or partner is a pt, one of you keep the others grow rites and the other gets a good c.g, In this scenario you can legaly have 7.5 oz usable and 12 plants, say im the pt/cg in our house, I have a c.g, I can grow 12 plants for my pt, she can have 2.5 oz's of usable, I can have 2.5 of usable for her, and I can have 2.5 usable for me from my c.g, and he can have 2.5 for me and 12 plants! so that is potentialy 10 zips allowed with 2.5 off property (at my c.g's) and 7.5 on property, and yes, we put her 2.5 up in the bedroom in a safe, and mine and hers i keep in my locked room, (even though i dont believe I seen anywhere that says we cant have it together i just do it that way) that is the most usable mm i can figure how to have with only 3 people involved, A pt as a grower is not allowed to have 2.5 usable in one room, and another 2.5 usable for here locked in another room,

 

I dont beleive a pt grower can have their 2.5, 12 plants and an extra 2.5 like a c.g can have!?! If Im wrong about that could some one please copy and paiste the part of the law that discusses this! Im sick of reading the law, plus I woke up not feeling to well with all of this rain,snow and jsut b.s, my back was killing me till i ate close to a gram of one of my bho rolls! the bomb, smoke it eat it, touch it, no sticky fingers but its still finger licking good, uh oh gotta go, its realy kickin in!

 

Peace

Jim

 

I agree pretty simple until you find out that the 12 plants becomes 24 if your in court

 

Like us 21 plants = 42

[SFC]

I am truly amazed that some among us cannot see the track they are trying to put us on. We have laid out the tracks for you, now decide if you want to drive the train or lay on the tracks.

[Celliach]

I think all we have to do to understand where the dispensary people stand is to see what they have dome in other states already.

[shishka]

Let's say back in the summer of 1996 I wanted to open a little dispensary in Cali and call it "Harborside." I talked to a few investors and raised some money. YAY! Open for business.

 

Fifteen years later my investors are paid off, and I have a successful business. I make $100,000 per month profit...well not profit because I can't actually profit. Now I want to branch out to Michigan! But dispensaries aren't legal there. No prob! I'll take a month's income and get some attorneys to write up a bill and hire a lobbyst. And while I'm at it, I might as well put a little something in to restrict grow rights. This will get LEO's support and will allow me to make even more money.

 

This is business 101 folks. Why do some people not see these dangers?

 

Wouldn't business 101 be to take away the grow rights of Cali patients? Is this happening in Cali?

[Highlander]

Wouldn't business 101 be to take away the grow rights of Cali patients? Is this happening in Cali?

 

http://www.cannabisculture.com/content/2010/06/05/Why-You-Should-Vote-YES-PROPOSITION-19-California-Control-Tax-Cannabis-Initiative

 

This is a long article but a pretty good summary of the concerns many of us have. If you take the time to research beyond the article, you'll find more.

 

Take a look here too: http://stash.norml.org/prop-215-co-author-dennis-peron-opposes-prop-19-marijuana-legalization

 

Dennis Peron, the magician of marijuana initiatives, sat amid the buds of his efforts — the bed and breakfast he runs on 17^th Street. He’s 64 years old, a stroke survivor, and smokes pot regularly for a medical condition.

He’s also a self-acknowledged party pooper to those who support Proposition 19, the November ballot to legalize small amounts of marijuana for recreational use. There is no fun in the bud, he said; “all the use of marijuana is medical.”

“I don’t even understand what recreational marijuana is,” Peron said. “People say they feel high. What were you feeling before that? Not high? Low? In other words, you were depressed.”

So, we’re all patients now? Potentially, Peron said. He believes anyone who uses marijuana habitually is using it for medical purposes and should get a prescription. It’s a “stressful world full of contradictions,” and marijuana can calm you down and help you make sense of it.

As for the argument that Prop. 19 will decriminalize marijuana and save on law enforcement costs, Peron believes the way to decriminalize the bud is for all recreational users to acknowledge they are using pot as medicine.

[OG Fire Beaster]

Highlander

 

Prop 19 was bad that is why it didn't pass.

 

Phaq

 

I know that loose lips sinks ships but the whole point is not to have to be in the shadows anymore. If all it was about was loose lips sinking ships then we really didn't even need the MMMA because people were growing and using before the act. The point is legitimacy for all parties.

 

Yes people can grow nice medicine on a minimal budget. That does not mean that they want to do so. What if they live in an apartment and just don't have the room or desire to grow. They are their plants and they do not have to assign them to a caregiver if they do not want to. They should have other options available that do not put anyone else at risk.

 

I will have to look and it seems like LARA has updated their page with the law. I thought I remembered something about the Pt and Cg being collectively in possession of the allowed amount for that Pt.

 

 

Everybody else

 

So if a Pt would like to operate a dispensary then they automatically become an adversary and want to destroy all other patients grow rights? I don't believe that for a second. I do believe that some people may want that but certainly not everyone that is pro dispensary.

 

It seems like the only arguments against PC's, and the like, are based on hypothetical situations of the worse kind. If as in the current bill, a PC may grow for themselves, then why would they care about grow rights of the patients? There were dispensaries open before and they seemed to have no problem attracting patients who still had their grow rights. Can that fact be denied?

 

The dispensary model has already been shown to work with patients grow rights intact.

 

A lot of good discussion with minimal BS. Thanks for participating everyone.

[GregS]

We have a good thing that has not, to this point, been adequately permitted, by overzealous court personnel and police and the constant drumming for dispensaries. The pt/cg model is entirely workable, and there are commercial opportunities if done right. By putting our time and energy here, rather than to carp and whine about what anyone would like the law to be, but isn't, is the most productive use of resources. Drop the arguments that the accommodation the law provides is inadequate, and work to see that it meets our needs with the provisions that are now more clearly aligned.

Edited February 19, 2013 by GregS

[OG Fire Beaster]

I believe they are wholly inadequate. I can think of many reasons that a Pt could be in need of meds and not have complete bi-directional safe access to more. That is unacceptable to this patient. I feel as if we are being taunted/tricked by the "state" into thinking we are safe, when we are not even close.

[bobandtorey]

I believe they are wholly inadequate. I can think of many reasons that a Pt could be in need of meds and not have complete bi-directional safe access to more. That is unacceptable to this patient. I feel as if we are being taunted/tricked by the "state" into thinking we are safe, when we are not even close.

 

YOU THINK

[OG Fire Beaster]

YOU THINK

 

I try not to too much. LOL

 

Or is that not what you meant?

 

I agree with you B&T. We have a decent start, but much more needs to be done.

[purple pimpernel]

 

 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/index.php?showtopic=42512&hl=&fromsearch=1

 

There are a handful of people like this in Michigan now.

 

zap you failed to look at all the corporations trying to gain access...to 'pts'....

look at Canada and UK---that's what's coming...corp control and regulation..

 

all these corporations are poised and waiting like a cat to have access to markets---

 

you don't think they spent all the millions of $$ to be denied access to the markets....(?)

or there is 'really' no medicinal benefits--

 

----hegilian dialect....keep the pts arguing about semantical technicalities while the big $$players help write the script--

thesis...antithesis...synthesis.....you didn't see the post today about theUS govt working with cartels...?...

 

regulation is coming to a city near you--

 

my point in posting the videos is for the folks with 'blinders' on here in mich-look at the big picture....

how many folks trying to ca$h in on mmj....I guess you guys all leading the "lives of quiet desperation"....have no clue what's really coming down the tracks-

 

$$will trump everything-

 

 

http://cannabisscience.com/

 

http://canchewbiotech.com/

 

 

http://www.gwpharm.com/Sativex.aspx

 

 

http://gmocannabiswatch.blogspot.com/

 

http://abcnews.go.com/news/t/blogEnt...6form%3DAPIPA1

 

 

i could post a dz more...how 'awake' are people....?...

Edited February 19, 2013 by purple pimpernel

[OG Fire Beaster]

Purple

 

More than one of those links do not work.

Others are pro marijuana as a medicine.

Others are related to chemical/industrial industry.

Others are anti marijuana.

 

Not sure what that is supposed to mean. could you clarify a little more?

 

Are you operating under the assumption that any form of buisness/research will eliminate patients grow rights? Please look to California. They tried to insert a Trojan horse via prop 19 and it failed. I would like to one day see a broad cannabis industry that can provide advancements in growing technique, equipment, genetics, renewable resources, alternative resources and any other way that the plant can be beneficial to people. I don't think these things have much to do with medical laws though.

 

EDIT: Are you saying that anyone that wants to make a living and support themselves and their family's by doing something they are passionate about is an enemy to all patients? I don't agree with that premise. There is still much to learn about what all this plant is capable of. I applaud the innovators and the people that are willing to take risks to further the understanding and access to this plant.

Edited February 19, 2013 by OG Fire Beaster

[purple pimpernel]

that's amazing as I just researched most of these links yesterday....and they all worked

 

my point is there is giant pharmaceutical industry that have all kinds of products ready to hit the market should they gain access and control....and it's coming if you ask me...regardless of what some think will keep it from happening-

they will get run over by the train--

people caught up in the small nuances related to the law are just collateral damage towards the bigger picture-

 

out west they grow 'tons'...not ounces

folks that think somehow michigan is going to remain 'unique' with control in CG/pt hands are dreaming...to a certain extant

 

access is being worked out allready across the board in the new'legal states....

 

IMO they are taking the $$out of the equation in a slow relentless process

 

there is --

mmj patches

chewing gum

nasal spray

vending machines

medical drinks

 

you have to look at the big picture here in relation to medicinal mmj....Canada is a prime example now

 

let's see how Washington and Colorado play out not to mention the state sanctioned mmj 'outlets' cropping up east-

 

I will research the links and post them again if folks are still blind-

 

no soon the average joe will not be able to make $ off of the plant--it's by design

hegilian dialectic--study that you might understand-

 

and what we are seeing here in mich now with the McQueen is all the disgruntled people that can't even give away their 'medicine'

 

prop 19 was indeed a bad law and I was there when Richard lee and andiamo tried to get it past the very concious growers in California

 

it would have limited homegrown to 5'canopy ....and severely limited access except thru dispensaries

 

all the growers there were against it and the dispensary folks were the ones supporting it---immediately after it failed Arnold passed decrim for less than an oz--

that would be the best path here....take what's worked in Ann arbor for 40yrs and run that across the state...jmo

 

---researching links--

Edited February 19, 2013 by purple pimpernel

[OG Fire Beaster]

I was in many a dispensary in LA that had flyers and spoke with people and informed them how bad 19 was. I do believe that some disp. owners did like it though.

 

If an Ann arbor style decrim were to be enacted state wide I think we would still have the problems of where did it come from and different groups having different protections for committing the same simultaneous act. Like a Pt acquiring from anywhere now.

 

So the solution to potential attempted/actual abuse by money interests is to just do nothing? What makes anyone think that if no new laws are passed, like a PC bill ,that the MMMA will never change? The courts cant even agree on what it means now. The same argument that states my views are that of a naive "asleep" person can be made towards the people that think by doing nothing their grow rights and current model will never be in jeopardy. If these interests are working behind the scenes to get what they want out of a new law they will make sure that new law comes regardless of us. We should make sure that when the change does happen it will be on our terms. Or are you saying that we already lost and it is inevitable that patients will lose their grow rights. If that is the case then why even comment about it?

 

EDIT: when i clicked on some of the links they stated not found. It probably doesn't matter anyway you expressed your view/points effectively enough with the ones that did work.

Edited February 19, 2013 by OG Fire Beaster

[SFC]

PP, some of these guys actually think they will be allowed to profit too. Sadly when the deal is finally done most of these and most of those signing on now will be left holding a bad of feces...