Caregivers Can Stop Legislators In Their Tracks! Here's How.

[Midnite-son]

It seems obvious that any patient can become a caregiver, provided no criminal record stops them.

Every caregiver with an opening for a patient, and any patient grower with overages, can and should make the "Caregiver Jump" to serve the needs of those seeking medicine. (LEGALLY).

 

First and foremost, the patient must have been approved by the doctor, or already been issued a patient card by LARA.

The process only requires filing a ten dollar change form with the state MMMP to be able to serve the need of the patient.

 

You MUST place all the paperwork and change fee in an envelope, with postage attached, in your outgoing mail box.

 

Without waiting for the state to approve the change or even waiting 15 days (since they won't reject the change for an already approved patient/caregiver, the caregiver can now provide the new patient up to 2 1/2 ounces of marijuana at the agreed upon compensation rate.

 

Once the patient has been served, the patient ends the agreement with the caregiver by filing another change form "jumping" back to the original status before the medicine was dispensed. The paperwork changing things back is then placed in the outgoing mailbox, and sent to the state that day.

This allows the caregiver to "jump" to several patients daily if needed, thereby eliminating any overages, helping patients that can't find medicine, since most dispensaries will be forced to close under the Schuette campaign of legal manipulations.

 

NOW, if all the patient growers and registered caregivers with ANY overages were to do this every time we found a patient needing meds, LARA would be choked with change forms, every patient would get their medicine, and the legislators wanting to tax our meds, would not be able to make their provisioning centers a reality.

 

The LAW is ON OUR SIDE ! Read up on this one !

 

Also for you naysayers who think "why pay the state any more money", consider that most patients will pay a lot less for their meds, even with the $20.+ postage fees, than if they were to acquire from a dispensary, or provisioning center.

 

This is OUR LAW, work with it.

[MightyMightyMezz]

I guess the only potential hitch is the question of can a caregiver supply meds to a patient directly after sending a change form.

[Restorium2]

I guess the only potential hitch is the question of can a caregiver supply meds to a patient directly after sending a change form.

That is a matter of choice for the caregiver. But it's really not an issue because no matter how you slice it, everyone is always going to be subject to getting their paperworked checked out. It's like that with any important paperwork that has qualifications involved. It's never going to change because it's part of the normal process. You can streamline it to the point that it works as quickly as a drivers license but your qualifications will always have to be checked. 15 days is not out of the norm and it's not something that anyone can consider as an undo waiting period when records that have to verified are concerned..

[MightyMightyMezz]

To put it another way, is there a waiting period for a change of caregiver form as there is for patient certification? Could having it in the mail work in accordance with the law?

[Celliach]

I wish everyone was spending the same amount of time and energy trying to make the CG/PT system as defined by the MMMA a more workable system, as they do figuring out how to get around the law,

[ozzrokk]

That is a matter of choice for the caregiver. But it's really not an issue because no matter how you slice it, everyone is always going to be subject to getting their paperworked checked out. It's like that with any important paperwork that has qualifications involved. It's never going to change because it's part of the normal process. You can streamline it to the point that it works as quickly as a drivers license but your qualifications will always have to be checked. 15 days is not out of the norm and it's not something that anyone can consider as an undo waiting period when records that have to verified are concerned..

 

On that note I will say that the lara site says you must NOTIFY them of SAID CHANGES. NOT APPLY but NOTIFY.

Please do not take my words as any advice for or against any kind of activity.. But simple an observation.....

 

From the LARA FAQ

 

Question: Do I have to tell the MMMP if I change my mailing address or change my designated primary caregiver?

Answer: The answer to these questions is "yes". You are required to tell the MMMP in writing of any such changes within 14 days of the change. The MMMP does not accept changes of information over the telephone. The MMMP only accepts written changes about the patient's name, the patient's address, the patient's telephone number, the patient's physician, or the patient's primary caregiver. There is a $10.00 fee for issuance of a new registry card. Your new card reflects the changes you have requested. Your changes will be made in our computer database and will be put in your file. You will be protected from civil and criminal penalties for these changes. If you change your caregiver, you will be asked to return your old caregiver card within 14 days.

Edited February 25, 2013 by ozzrokk

[GregS]

You're starting to get it, and are doing the math about right.

 

Run with it.

[Highlander]

The CG needs to be connected to the patient through the department's registration process. How is it that a Change Form sitting in the mailbox makes that connection? The devil is in the details. I can see it now. LEO shows up Sunday night and you have 20 Change Forms in your mailbox. Good luck..this is a cute ideas but cuteness doesn't fly..until someone spends four years in court in the hopes the courts agree.

[ozzrokk]

Yea but doesnt LARA say

 

 

You are required to tell the MMMP in writing of any such changes within 14 days of the change.

 

 

 

Almost looks like you even have 14 days to do so.

[GregS]

And the cannabandos said, "Let the wild rumpus start."

Edited February 28, 2013 by GregS

[Restorium2]

Here's a related court case;

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/index.php?showtopic=42390&hl=&fromsearch=1

[ozzrokk]

Here's a related court case;

http://michiganmedic...l=&fromsearch=1

 

 

Thanx for the link I wasnt aware that this type of a situation even had anything to do with that case.

Cannot seem to find the part where anyone said that the attestations were not valid. Maybe I am missing it.

[CaveatLector]

Yea but doesnt LARA say

 

 

You are required to tell the MMMP in writing of any such changes within 14 days of the change.

 

 

 

Almost looks like you even have 14 days to do so.

Yes but notifying within 14 days isn't the same thing as making a transfer. You are protected for connected patients plain and simple. It is plain and clear language. LARA may have its rules regarding WHEN you must notify them but that doesn't mean the law protects transfers yet (until you are connected).

 

Furthermore, asserting that LARA won't reject an already-approved cg is flat out false. LARA doesn't constantly monitor cgs or pts after their initial application. A possible scenario exists where the cg no longer qualifies to be a cg if they, for example, were convicted of a drug felony subsequent to the initially approved cg app. A scenario also exists where a pt no longer has a qualifying condition AFTER the initially approved pt app.

 

I'm curious why the OP is hiding behind a new id. Or maybe I should believe they are actually a brand new member. I've seen this ridiculous scenario proposed elsewhere. So OP, who are you?

[rhinoman]

Hey Cav, sounds like that greedy joe guy.

[rambozo420]

Great question I think if the suits in charge really did the math they would see way more profit than any commercial taxation. Plus that would help out of state patients which our law covers. How long is the average vacation?

[maxmax]

Yes but notifying within 14 days isn't the same thing as making a transfer. You are protected for connected patients plain and simple. It is plain and clear language. LARA may have its rules regarding WHEN you must notify them but that doesn't mean the law protects transfers yet (until you are connected).

 

Furthermore, asserting that LARA won't reject an already-approved cg is flat out false. LARA doesn't constantly monitor cgs or pts after their initial application. A possible scenario exists where the cg no longer qualifies to be a cg if they, for example, were convicted of a drug felony subsequent to the initially approved cg app. A scenario also exists where a pt no longer has a qualifying condition AFTER the initially approved pt app.

 

I'm curious why the OP is hiding behind a new id. Or maybe I should believe they are actually a brand new member. I've seen this ridiculous scenario proposed elsewhere. So OP, who are you?

 

someone is hiding ? is Leo reading this site?

[Highlander]

There is a guy on Craigslist in flint discussing this five-minute CG idea.

 

 

[Ms Chocolate]

If nothing else, this idea will give lawmakers something to look at, and another reason to think the whole program is a joke

[Sledge]

If nothing else, this idea will give lawmakers something to look at, and another reason to think the whole program is a joke

 

Unfortunately more like the later, seems like they are trying to make the entire program a joke.

[Restorium2]

If nothing else, this idea will give lawmakers something to look at, and another reason to think the whole program is a joke

Not if folks like us keep pointing out how incredibly stupid these hair brained ideas are and why they don't work. Just keep saying it. They are listening to see how the majority of us act. Stecker told us that in his notes. We are well informed, and empowered because of it. Otherwise we would just jump on the hair brained idea band wagon and have a party.

[Midnite-son]

CaveatLector =WHAT IS OP? I don't know what that means!

Who am I ? I am Charles Smith - Secretary of the Kalamazoo Area Compassion Club (since 2009)

MaxMax = Someone is hiding? Is LEO reading this site?

Unlike many of you regulars on this site, It took me all these years to post anything here, mostly because of how topics NEVER stay on point.

Too many people looking under rocks for snakes, when there are none. As for LEO reading this site, I'm sure they are, but what I proposed is legal. Ask the lawyers.

 

So now everyone knows who I am. Are you willing to put your real name and location on this site to answer the same question?

 

Do you think the caregiver jump process is illegal? Don't post links to previous cases that have nothing to do with the topic (other than reference to change forms) which had NOTHING to do with the caregiver/patient relationship, but all about suppressing evidence believed to be garnered outside the limits of the act.

I will try to reply daily to any further inquiries.......

[Highlander]

Q: How do "the attorneys" (whoever they are) explain how a letter sitting in a mailbox establishes a connection through the department's registration process?

 

And riddle me this. If you have 5 patients and 12.5 oz usable MMJ and in walks patient number six One of your five patients then must fill out a change form so the new patient can sign you up. So you have your patients just sitting around waiting to drop you as their CG? And when that patient drops you, there is a period of time, brief as it may be, where you have only four patients. So do you keep quantities low to prevent this.?

 

Did "the attorneys" advise you about this?

Edited February 26, 2013 by Highlander

[Restorium2]

CaveatLector =WHAT IS OP? I don't know what that means!

Who am I ? I am Charles Smith - Secretary of the Kalamazoo Area Compassion Club (since 2009)

MaxMax = Someone is hiding? Is LEO reading this site?

Unlike many of you regulars on this site, It took me all these years to post anything here, mostly because of how topics NEVER stay on point.

Too many people looking under rocks for snakes, when there are none. As for LEO reading this site, I'm sure they are, but what I proposed is legal. Ask the lawyers.

 

So now everyone knows who I am. Are you willing to put your real name and location on this site to answer the same question?

 

Do you think the caregiver jump process is illegal? Don't post links to previous cases that have nothing to do with the topic (other than reference to change forms) which had NOTHING to do with the caregiver/patient relationship, but all about suppressing evidence believed to be garnered outside the limits of the act.

I will try to reply daily to any further inquiries.......

OP means ORIGINAL POSTER (the person who started the thread).

 

It's a known fact that an advocacy group is more powerful if some forms of it's advocacy are anonymous.

[Midnite-son]

Highlander = the change form is the connection between the caregiver and the patient, the mailbox is how the connection gets to the state. The state would not recognize the connection until it enters the data into the system (before the cards are created). All of this would be days/weeks after the "jumping patient" had been provided meds by "their caregiver". The letters with postage, in an outgoing mailbox show intent to deliver. Honorable and defendable in court.

As for the riddle me this question; The caregiver jump will NOT work for a caregiver with 5 patients. The caregiver must only have 4 current patients with the 5th opening remaining open for this specific purpose.

 

Restorium2 = thank you for the OP explaination.

[Highlander]

You said that the state won't recognize the connection until weeks later. How then are you connected at the time of the med transfer?