Rso And Cancer Debate Forum

[Habenero]

Yeah Buttercup,it was.   

That;s fine bigbelly.

[jointedone]

OOOH,I'm so hurt,dickmaster.

[Habenero]

OOOH,I'm so hurt,dickmaster.

I'm sorry you're hurt. Now back to the topic and stop spamming the threads.

[GrowGoddess]

Excellent simplified technique, thank you. Isnt it wonderful how we go so far forward, only to return to where we began. I do the same/similar as you and can attest to the facts you state.

It will naturally decarb and contain more medicinal properties than any heated oil. Its physics not magic right. Terpenoids, the very medicinal constituents we speak of and desire, are vaporized at vastly different temperatures. some are gone at low temps, and some at much higher temps. Adding heat will ultimately vaporize one medicinal terpenoid profile at a time. Losing even one is counterproductive in my opinion, unless targeting a specific profile end result, a ridiculous notion on a stovetop environment for sure.

 

peace, love that last pic! nice representation.

 

seems you have a good understanding of what I am trying to achieve with cannabis. Highest quality medicine that I can produce.

 

As I mentioned before, me and coincidentally one of my patients each had a toothache. RSO had no effect putting it on and around the tooth, except for a buzz. One drop of the ND Sap offered instant relief that lasted all day. I believe the reason why is because the medicinal properties were not evaporated or winterized out of the oil.

 

I have made the ND Sap with 99% iso, then winterized with 190 proof grain alcohol. It doesn't have as much medicinal value due to the CBDs that bond with certain flavanoids and get filtered out, but the potency is unreal, by far the most potent oil I have taken. The buzz is different. It is like super clean with very intense visual effects. For some reason the buzz lasts twice as long as RSO. Why? I do not fully know, but what I do know is it is more enjoyable, more potent, safer to make, and I prefer it and the effects.

 

The grain alcohol ND Sap, no heat, no winterizing, that also carries a much different buzz. The first time I could feel the CBDs having an effect on my buzz. I like it both ways, but without winterizing I would surly say it has more medicinal properties. Just common sense.

 

Why would we want as many CBDs and terpenes as possible? Because it is medicine and can make all the difference. I believe there are 103 known terpenes, 58 monoterpenes, 38 sesquiterpenes, as well as diterpenes. The list goes on. I want all of these medicinal properties in my medicine. I am sure this has been done in a similar manner for thousands of years. I guess we could call it "witches brew" LOL

 

I originally left it in a liquid state for one purpose. I needed it diluted because it was too potent. One drop was a little too strong for me to handle and function normally. That is after diluting it. Anyway, I have learned to like it with a little grain alcohol, it absorbs more quickly and easier to monitor the dose size using the dropper. Otherwise, I don't have a problem with it being thicker and using a toothpick to get a dose. I can put regular screw caps on those vials, just too potent to do that. At least with the batch that has been winterized.

 

[Norby]

 

GG; It will naturally decarb and contain more medicinal properties than any heated oil.

 

Now that's one HUGE (headed) claim there GG. 

 

And it would be correct.

[Restorium2]

And it would be correct.

That is a very closed minded position to take. How can anyone make these absolute claims with cannabis? I don't know about you but I still have a lot to learn about cannabis. Having been around cannabis for a long time I'm very uncomfortable with 'these type of' absolute claims about it and the people who make them. 

Edited November 3, 2014 by Restorium2

[Norby]

That's ok.  When you learn more you'll understand.  Heat destroys terpenes and cannabinoids.  The more terpenes and cannabinoids there are the more medical "value" it has. If you make oil from the same flowers, the one that doesn't use heat will have more medicine in it.

 

I'm quite open minded, just show me how that's not the case, don't just demean the statement.  I don't ask that anyone believe me, just test it out for yourself.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Norby

[Restorium2]

That's ok.  When you learn more you'll understand.  Heat destroys terpenes and cannabinoids.  The more terpenes and cannabinoids there are the more medical "value" it has. If you make oil from the same flowers, the one that doesn't use heat will have more medicine in it.

I know better than that already. Looks good on paper but that's not what patients have told me. 

[Norby]

So you've tried no heat?  and let it set 100 days?

Edited November 3, 2014 by Norby

[Restorium2]

So you've tried no heat?  and let it set 100 days?

Of course, back in 1983 I think. Or '84.

[Norby]

How did your patients get it.  Must've sat more than 100 days, maybe that's the problem.

[Restorium2]

How did your patients get it.  Must've sat more than 100 days, maybe that's the problem.

??? Doesn't make any sense Norb. I'm getting the feeling you are just posting for the wrong reasons here. I'm probably going to ignore any more posts like this one.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Restorium2

[Norby]

I know better than that already. Looks good on paper but that's not what patients have told me.

Of course, back in 1983 I think. Or '84.

?

[Restorium2]

I know better than that already. Looks good on paper but that's not what patients have told me.

Of course, back in 1983 I think. Or '84.

?

I've been a patient since 1981 Norb.

[Restorium2]

That's ok.  When you learn more you'll understand.  Heat destroys terpenes and cannabinoids.  The more terpenes and cannabinoids there are the more medical "value" it has. If you make oil from the same flowers, the one that doesn't use heat will have more medicine in it.

 

I'm quite open minded, just show me how that's not the case, don't just demean the statement.  I don't ask that anyone believe me, just test it out for yourself.

Just because I tested something out for myself and I had a 'finding' I wouldn't make an absolute statement that what I had found was the same for everyone else even if it looked great on paper. That's what having an open mind means. I have already seen oil that worked better for some things because some heat was apllied. So the statement that all heat is bad and 'no heat' is always the best will be found untrue for sure. Don't make absolute statements based on a small study if you want to be correct. I would say it this way, "It worked great for me so give it a try". Not, "This is better than anything heated".

[trichcycler]

who said "better than anything heated"?

I saw "GG; It will naturally decarb and contain more medicinal properties than any heated oil.

heat removes medicinal terpenes,

less medical terpenes = less medicinal properties.(period)

 

"better" "stronger" "more potent" =subjective, anecdotal=a given personal experience, within the right of the one experiencing the experience, to value, judge, describe in any way they "feel"= an understood personal evaluation.

[Restorium2]

who said "better than anything heated"?

I saw "GG; It will naturally decarb and contain more medicinal properties than any heated oil.

heat removes medicinal terpenes,

less medical terpenes = less medicinal properties.(period)

 

"better" "stronger" "more potent" =subjective, anecdotal=a given personal experience, within the right of the one experiencing the experience, to value, judge, describe in any way they "feel"= an understood personal evaluation.

Like I said, I have seen heat bring out medicinal properties of cannabis oil. Which makes that bold statement false. I can't make it any clearer than that. I'm totally surprised you have not. 

[Norby]

Like I said, I have seen heat bring out medicinal properties of cannabis oil. Which makes that bold statement false. I can't make it any clearer than that. I'm totally surprised you have not. 

Heating probably released terpenes that may have negated certain affects of THC, CBD etc. but that does not mean the terpines present weren't more medicinal, just that the terpenes had to be removed to be used elsewhere to illicit the effect you wanted.  You just happened to burn them off to the air instead of capturing them to be used elsewhere.  If it's higher levels of CBN then the oil would just have to sit longer to get hi levels of CBN but would still have more terpenes then a heated oil.

 

were these medicinal affects healing or feeling?

[Restorium2]

Heating probably released terpenes that may have negated certain affects of THC, CBD etc. but that does not mean the terpines present weren't more medicinal, just that the terpenes had to be removed to be used elsewhere to illicit the effect you wanted.  You just happened to burn them off to the air instead of capturing them to be used elsewhere.  If it's higher levels of CBN then the oil would just have to sit longer to get hi levels of CBN but would still have more terpenes then a heated oil.

 

were these medicinal affects healing or feeling?

Could be. Another thing to consider is that a quick cold wash, as compared with a longer wash, does leave behind things that may prove to be medicinal to some patients. The possibilities are infinite at this point. None of us know everything about cannabis oil and every time we add another human to the equation the answers change.

[Norby]

I give up.  We are talking about medicine's potential, not human effects.  If you stopped trying to make this an arguement about "better" this would've ended a long time ago.  No one is talking about "better" but you.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Norby

[trichcycler]

Like I said, I have seen heat bring out medicinal properties of cannabis oil. Which makes that bold statement false. I can't make it any clearer than that. I'm totally surprised you have not.

like I said "Adding heat will ultimately vaporize one medicinal terpenoid profile at a time. Losing even one is counterproductive in my opinion, unless targeting a specific profile end result, a ridiculous notion on a stovetop environment for sure.

 

no need to chase your tail for the sake of argument. I think we're on the same page here, or at least in the same book.

some things make peoples feelings better. Some people react badly to thc, so vaporizing all of the thc from their dose may actually feel

better to them. This does not discount the fact that there would be less medicinal constituents in their dose.

[GrowGoddess]

who said "better than anything heated"?

I saw "GG; It will naturally decarb and contain more medicinal properties than any heated oil.

heat removes medicinal terpenes,

less medical terpenes = less medicinal properties.(period)

 

"better" "stronger" "more potent" =subjective, anecdotal=a given personal experience, within the right of the one experiencing the experience, to value, judge, describe in any way they "feel"= an understood personal evaluation.

 

Exactly. I was describing my experience in order to help a patient. I was also being honest in describing my experience and what I believe. I don't thing a patient needs to invest in a lot of equipment to produce  high quality oil and that it can be made safely. The downside is the 100 day wait for the decarb process to complete.

 

To me, preheating the oil and such is a convenience with a downside that the oil potentially does not contain all of the available medicinal properties. It does contain medicinal properties, but noticeably different when comparing the same strains produced with each different method. I have found that naturally decarbing is the most simple, and easiest for patients to do, aside from the 100 day wait. There are many different options. Quick frozen wash, long soak, quick room temp wash. There is the option to use 99% iso then winterize with 190 proof grain alcohol. No need for expensive equipment. In the end, the patient knows for sure what they are getting. 

 

 

Terpenes are considered an essential oil, from what I have read. If you are using a vac oven or in other cases, using heat, you can use essential oil extraction methods to the buds first. Then put the essential oils back into the finished concentrate after the heating process is complete. Potentially anyway. I have heard of other BHO makers trying to do just this. Unfortunately I was not able to learn of their results. I am not sure they could have it tested properly to give quality results. If I was not making no heat naturally decarbed oil, I would be looking into essential oil distillers. Basically you steam the essential oils out of the plant material and later apply it back into the concentrate when it is finished. I am sure there is a lot of loss and damage, but like you said, losing or gaining one terpene can mean a lot.

 

Interesting article about capturing essential oils. http://www.experience-essential-oils.com/distilling-essential-oils.html

[GrowGoddess]

Of course, back in 1983 I think. Or '84.

 

I'm calling BS on this.

 

I think somebody needs a time out.

 

Starting arguments and trolling threads, attempting to prevent patients from receiving quality information to potentially help themselves, I must agree with Jointedone. For your own well being.

 

From the bottom of my heart, I hope you get the help you need. Maybe just a break from the forums will do?

[t-pain]

how about instead of every time you want to reply to another member here on the forum about some dumb argument, that instead you call or write to another congress person and ask them to support marijuana legalization?

 

just an idea.

[suneday11]

Patience got the best of me and I didn't read everything in this thread (we all need a collective internet hug), so forgive me if its been said, but pay attention to terpenes if you have cancer patients. RSO does a good job to release terpenes during the process. I might recommend a juicing component along with RSO if that is your choice for oral application.

 

Research says citrus and berry/fruity profiles are most beneficial for cancer patients as far as terpenes.These profiles usually have higher levels of limonene and myrcene. We should expect to see a ton of orange, pineapple, mango, tango type strains coming through medical breeding programs.