Michigan Foodstamp Program Soon To Require Drug Tests

[Celliach]

 

 

Of course dispensaries are responsible. They're like responsible for like everything bad that happens here. I thought that was like common knowledge...

 

   

Good posts, Greg.

That's not what I said, and you know it.

[northerngal]

It's unconstitutional?

 

 Just a minor thing... :-)

 

 In the states that have tried to implement these programs, they have discovered that people on welfare do drugs at less than half the rate of the general populace.  In otherwords, there are more people in your church doing drugs than welfare recipients. 

 

I suspect prejudice is involved here and I do not see how punishing someone as a criminal and denying them basic sustenance and a couple hundred bucks a month accomplishes anything but to make people feel self righteous.

 

Marijuana is still illegal even for medical use.  Each and every one of us is scum when judged for illegal drugs because we use mmj.

 

 How can we turn around and punish others?

 

 What makes you think these people are using the money for "drugs" as well?  Seems like a general assumption with mostly circumstantial evidence.  1-2% of welfare recipients maybe? 

 

When did it become a RIGHT for people to receive "welfare"?   

 

If only 1-2% of recipients are drug abusers, than this will not affect many, will it?   

 

To be elgible for the F.I.P program, you must have minor children at home.  If a parent has enough money to support a "habit" - they should not need the taxpayers money to care for their children.  Should they?  If a family is receiving money from this program, they are supposed to set goals to become independent, not receive it for life.

[mibrains]

i really dont think  this is about moral superiority..

 

or feeling good.

 

this is about budget sequesters.

 

we the state of Michigan are broke.

 

not to mention the entire country..

 

whose paying for these programs?

 

it seems like maybe no one is...

 

sorry but cash assistance for life has ended...  there are plenty of help programs for desperate people... help with utilities, rents, food and transportation.

 

no more excuses.

 

time to figure out a better way...  one that helps more people with less drain on the economy.

 

i dont know the answers...

 

but IMHO it seems to me it's just another coverup to figure out ways to save our state some money...

[northerngal]

Also, they have proven in other states that the cost to implement all this drug testing is actually more than if they didn't do anything. It will cost the state more money to kick them off.  So, are you willing to pay more money and have your taxes go up just topunish like 2% of welfare recipients?

 

It just makes no sense.

 

Here we are adopting the tactics of the drug war to ostricize people, deny them their constitutional rights to privacy and yes, arrest them.

 

It surprises me how many people have become and still are "Drug war supporters".

 

 If you support this bill,... you support the drug war.

Please define what drugs apply when you use the term "drug war" and my support of it. 

 

Edited:

 

The previous question dosen't really matter.  I am entitled to voice my opinion as long as I am not disrespectful.  I will not pass judgement on you because you disagree, as you do in your posts above.  This has NOTHING to do with christianity or my use of medical cannabis.  I respect your opinion

[Celliach]

Luke 6:26 Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the Kingdom of God.

 

Matthew 25:34-36 And then the King shall say to those at his right hand,"Come you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for for you from the foundation the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me." 

 

 

Mark 10:21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

 

 

^{Luke 14:12-14 12} Then Jesus said to his host, “When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or sisters, your relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. ¹³ But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, ¹⁴ and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”

[ozzrokk]

My thought on the matter is this......... If implementing the program DOES cost more than giving the benefits themselves then of course you don't do it, especially out of spite.........

 

 

I also see how out of the goodness of things to do.and givin the low lifetime time frame of the benefits that you could just say let it run. No one recipient will get you for more than x years..... So maybe let it ride........ But when the State doesnt have the money and they have a point about you don't need help if you have money for illegal drugs...... And if you do have a problem you can go into a program for help OR THEN you lose your benefits.....

 

 

2%???????  Really Mal?????  And what makes you think the fellow church goers that you compare are not illegal drug users??? Or FIP recipients?

 

I think Northern and Mibrains has a realistic outlook on things.......

 

 

Edited to add disclaimer....... I do not consider Medical Marijuana as an illegal drug......

Edited May 7, 2013 by ozzrokk

[Celliach]

Edited to add disclaimer....... For these purposes I do not consider Medical Marijuana as an illegal drug......

But the feds, and most conservative politicians, do.........

[+Malamute]

i really dont think  this is about moral superiority..

 

or feeling good.

 

this is about budget sequesters.

 

we the state of Michigan are broke.

 

not to mention the entire country..

 

whose paying for these programs?

 

it seems like maybe no one is...

 

sorry but cash assistance for life has ended...  there are plenty of help programs for desperate people... help with utilities, rents, food and transportation.

 

no more excuses.

 

time to figure out a better way...  one that helps more people with less drain on the economy.

 

i dont know the answers...

 

but IMHO it seems to me it's just another coverup to figure out ways to save our state some money...

 

 

 It will cost the state more money(didn't you read what I said?) to run the drug testing program than will be saved from kicking people off.  It will raise the budget problems, not lessen them.

 

And yes,... 4 year lifetime benefit.

 

 And yes they work and earn money AND receive some help for a couple years while they try to raise their kids.

[+Malamute]

My thought on the matter is this......... If implementing the program DOES cost more than giving the benefits themselves then of course you don't do it, especially out of spite.........

 

 

I also see how out of the goodness of things to do.and givin the low lifetime time frame of the benefits that you could just say let it run. No one recipient will get you for more than x years..... So maybe let it ride........ But when the State doesnt have the money and they have a point about you don't need help if you have money for illegal drugs...... And if you do have a problem you can go into a program for help OR THEN you lose your benefits.....

 

 

2%???????  Really Mal?????  And what makes you think the fellow church goers that you compare are not illegal drug users??? Or FIP recipients?

 

I think Northern and Mibrains has a realistic outlook on things.......

 

 

Edited to add disclaimer....... I do not consider Medical Marijuana as an illegal drug......

 

 Well, tought tootie, marijuana is an illegal drug.

 

 2% comes from the Florida and Tennessee numbers who have run these programs.

 

 General population is around 7%.

[ozzrokk]

But the feds, and most conservative politicians, do.........

 

 

 

See earlier post about time for descheduling.

[ozzrokk]

 Well, tought tootie, marijuana is an illegal drug.

 

 2% comes from the Florida and Tennessee numbers who have run these programs.

 

 General population is around 7%.

 

 

Maybe an illegal drug in your mind but not in mine.....

 

Numbers seem low to me but hey I didnt do the testing so........

[Celliach]

See earlier post about time for descheduling.

 

I understand that, but what we want and what is are two different things.

 

As it stands, MMJ IS an illegal drug in the USA as far as the federal government is concerned.....period.

[+Malamute]

Please define what drugs apply when you use the term "drug war" and my support of it. 

 

The ones labeled in the drug war. I mean.. 

 

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/schedules/orangebook/c_cs_alpha.pdf

[Celliach]

Maybe an illegal drug in your mind but not in mine.....

 

Numbers seem low to me but hey I didnt do the testing so........

 

Your mind doesn't trump federal law.

[ozzrokk]

Your mind doesn't trump federal law.

 

 

Clearly......

[mibrains]

this is a state run program so federal doesn't apply.

 

i heard that the person who is accused and sent to be tested has to show signs of using an illegal drug? not just cannabis... and it is up to their case worker to require the test... so its like they have to have some kind of probable cause a person is abusing illegal drugs.. then they order a test to confirm before taking corrective actions.

wheres the problem here?  this is a tool to stop state run cash assistance violations.

 

and yes that will probably cost more than letting them abuse the system further...

 

and i would venture a guess since this is a state run program... the MICHIGAN MEDICAL MARIHUANA ACT might protect a medical card holder if they were to explain to their caseworker the nature of their medical use....

[+Malamute]

The TANF block grant fundamentally altered both the structure and the allowable uses of federal and state dollars previously spent on AFDC and related programs.  Under TANF, the federal government gives states a fixed block grant totaling $16.5 billion each year and requires them to maintain a certain level of state spending (totaling $10 billion-11 billion a year), based on a state’s level of spending for AFDC and related programs prior to its conversion to TANF in 1996.  (This state funding requirement is known as the “maintenance of effort” requirement, or MOE.) 

 

 It's a Federally funded program.

[northerngal]

The ones labeled in the drug war. I mean.. 

 

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/schedules/orangebook/c_cs_alpha.pdf

 

If supporting the war on drugs means I do not condone the abuse of the drugs listed then I suppose I do support the war on drugs............ 

 

Do I believe that all of those drugs belong in that classification.....NO!   Some of them are on that list for good reason though. 

[Celliach]

Seriously, if this isn't about getting down on poor people to make themselves look good, and it is about fiscal matters, then why isn't everyone getting state money being tested, including the guys that voted for this?

[Celliach]

You know, Section 8 housing is funded in the exact same way with federal matching funds.  because it is federally funded, MMJ patients are not allowed to use MMJ and still live in funded housing.  Many Michigan MMJ lost their home when this law was passed.  Careful what you guys are wishing for.  All these programs could be cut off from all MMJ patients in the future if we start down that path.  Most MMJ PTs in Michigan get the discount for registration.  IT was about 56% the first year of the program.  

 

Just food for thought.

[Celliach]

Maybe we should just drug test ALL Medicaid recipients.

[mibrains]

fair enough.....

 

so it sounds like no scheduled drugs in your system if your on any kind of assistance programs..

 

makes sense... Not...   

 

everything is connected /  controlled by the Fed.  so they got us there...

 

 

to be clear..

 

i don't wish for this..

 

or any more rules.

Edited May 7, 2013 by mibrains

[Celliach]

So what do we do about the 95 year old man in the nursing home with no family that's living on federal funding?  D we make him take a test?  What if he ate a pot brownie to help with pain?

[mibrains]

hes in jeopardy apparently if he uses any illegal drugs...

 

sounds like hes forced by implication to stay on their plan... or move to the streets.

[northerngal]

Since when is getting money (in this case) and health benefits an entitlement?  

 

It makes me understand the thought process of some peoples expectations on getting there "free ounce" of mmj!

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand why we have programs like F.I.P and medicaid, if they are being utilized in the manner they were created for.