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Why not Naptha?  I've tried Everclear and ISO 99% and by far the Naptha is the best consistency and honestly, results.  That's what Rick Simpson himself says to use.  It all flashes off, unlike the 99% ISO which leaves 1% of something behind.  We've treated so many different conditions with it, having GREAT success that it's hard to comprehend why there is an issue with it, if processed according to instructions.  Would love to understand your position.  Thanks!

 

WOW You are about to become a target!

 

By political process, this site has determined talking about curing cancer with cannabis is a sin.

 

The OP can NOT receive an honest answer to his question.

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Why not Naptha?  I've tried Everclear and ISO 99% and by far the Naptha is the best consistency and honestly, results.  That's what Rick Simpson himself says to use.  It all flashes off, unlike the 99% ISO which leaves 1% of something behind.  We've treated so many different conditions with it, having GREAT success that it's hard to comprehend why there is an issue with it, if processed according to instructions.  Would love to understand your position.  Thanks!

 

It appears you didn't read throught the thread before you posted.  If you take the time to read through then you will see why some are posting against the use of naptha.  I am, however, glad you posted.  It illustrates perfectly why advocating for something without providing the necessary qualifications or disclaimers is very dangerous.  People come here and read the last few posts of a thread rather than read through the entire thing.  Then they end up with bits and pieces of the facts and assume they know it all.  They become low info users.  These people are the ones that can be harmed by people who post things like "use naptha to extract" without posting disclaimers.

WOW You are about to become a target!

 

By political process, this site has determined talking about curing cancer with cannabis is a sin.

 

The OP can NOT receive an honest answer to his question.

Obfuscation is your mantra.  No one has told you that talking about curing cancer with cannabis is a sin I would bet.  I would bet they have told you pushing it as a cure and thus confusing consumers (like the one above) can lead to a situation where some low info users will accept it as a best treatment and forego the use of traditional treatments first. 

 

Why don't you start posting with full facts instead of this piecemeal crap you do to try and mislead people?  Have you no shame?  Do you care who you hurt?  Do you?  Does it matter at all to you?  I would suggest that while you accuse some here of advocating for people to "blow themselves up" you are doing the same thing.  Flip that on its head.  Maybe you aren't doing it literally but figuratively speaking the things you post can be as harmful or more harmful than anyone using butane as an extraction method.

Edited by CaveatLector
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Do we know for sure that the naphtha from the hardware store does in fact contain compounds that boil above the bp of cannabinoids?

 

Why would you ask such a question when, with your background, you clearly should have you asking the related question "Do we know for sure that the naphtha from the hardware store does NOT in fact contain compounds that boil above the bp of cannabinoids.?

 

What exactly are you trying to convey with your post?

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please get this back on track gentlemen...

 

you can bicker someplace else can't you?

 

people want to know about the dangers... disadvantages and the advantages..of all the types of extractions. 

this is a thread about someone asking for help with information pertaining to a loved ones cancer....

quit befuddling it with trash talking and get to the point about your methods and experience in extracts that may help the OP.

 

lets cite facts and data and leave the personal attack for someplace else PLEASE.

 

 

I cited facts and data that show the dangers of using naptha to extract cannabis oil.  Are you suggesting that we ignore the dangers I have brought up?  That we don't discuss them in this thread?  You don't think this is the appropriate place to warn people about what they might be consuming if they ingest "RSO?" or some other oil extracted using questionable solvents?  I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to redirected with your modding of this thread.

 

It seems you're good with people posting about using oil but you don't want to see any discussion about how safe the oil can/should be.

 

I guess I need some more specific direction from you in order to keep my posts in-line with what you believe is appropriate for this site in general and this thread in particular.  .

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Just wondering if everyone here actually has their facts straight.

 

Have you boiled hardware store naphtha by itself to confirm the bp?

 

OMG.

 

Did you really just ask me that?

 

No.  I never boiled hardware store napththa. 

 

But if I did, it would boil around 30C until the compounds that boil at 30C boil away...then it will boil at, maybe, i dunno, maybe 35C for a time...until those compounds boil away.  And so forth until the last of the liquid evaporates.

 

Are you saying that unless I can prove that hardware store naphtha does contain heavy petroleum compounds, then I should assume that it is safe to use?  That would be foolish.  You might as well use gasoline.

 

What exactly are you saying?  That I should support use of the hardware store naphtha with unspecified contents until such time I can prove that the chosen brand is unsafe. 

 

What you are talking about is using PAINT THINNER in a medical capacity and until someone can PROVE that the PAINT THINNER is unsafe, you will assume it is safe.

 

No point in even owning a GC then.

 

Wow.  You have a chemistry background and still think this way.  Unbelievable.   "Hardware store naptha is medical grade until proven otherwise."  This is the epitome of dangerous discussion I have seen on this site, and you should be ashamed to be the one to have posted it.

 

Northern Labs:  "Paint Thinner:  Safe for medical use until proven otherwise"  You heard it here first.

Edited by Highlander
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OMG.

 

Did you really just ask me that?

 

No.  I never boiled hardware store napththa. 

 

But if I did, it would boil around 30C until the compounds that boil at 30C boil away...then it will boil at, maybe, i dunno, maybe 35C for a time...until those compounds boil away.  And so forth until the last of the liquid evaporates.

 

Are you saying that unless I can prove that hardware store naphtha does contain heavy petroleum compounds, then I should assume that it is safe to use?  That would be foolish.  You might as well use gasoline.

 

What exactly are you saying?  That I should support use of the hardware store naphtha with unspecified contents until such time I can prove that the chosen brand is unsafe. 

 

What you are talking about is using PAINT THINNER in a medical capacity and until someone can PROVE that the PAINT THINNER is unsafe, you will assume it is safe.

 

No point in even owning a GC then.

 

Wow.  You have a chemistry background and still think this way.  Unbelievable.   "Hardware store naptha is medical grade until proven otherwise."  This is the epitome of dangerous discussion I have seen on this site, and you should be ashamed to be the one to have posted it.

Settle down bro, it was just a question. You are correct that we shouldn't use something as a solvent unless we know its not harmful.

 

However many solvents, when combined, form azeotropes that boil at a lower temp than either solvent alone.

 

For example, when we mix acetone and pentane at the proper ratios, the bp of the azeotrope is lower than that of either solvent individually.

 

All I am asking is, has anyone done a confirmatory test of the notion that hardware store naphtha does/does not leave behind residue that boils above the decarb/boiling temps of cannabinoids? If not, maybe that would be in order before we make any more assumptions...

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please get this back on track gentlemen...

 

you can bicker someplace else can't you?

 

people want to know about the dangers... disadvantages and the advantages..of all the types of extractions. 

this is a thread about someone asking for help with information pertaining to a loved ones cancer....

quit befuddling it with trash talking and get to the point about your methods and experience in extracts that may help the OP.

 

lets cite facts and data and leave the personal attack for someplace else PLEASE.

 

 

I cited facts and data that show the dangers of using naptha to extract cannabis oil.  Are you suggesting that we ignore the dangers I have brought up?  That we don't discuss them in this thread?  You don't think this is the appropriate place to warn people about what they might be consuming if they ingest "RSO?" or some other oil extracted using questionable solvents?  I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to redirected with your modding of this thread.

 

It seems you're good with people posting about using oil but you don't want to see any discussion about how safe the oil can/should be.

 

I guess I need some more specific direction from you in order to keep my posts in-line with what you believe is appropriate for this site in general and this thread in particular.  .

While I can understand Mibrain's desire to keep the thread on track I also see that it evolved.  When someone recommends the use of RSO (which by peanut's own definition can only be called RSO if it utilizes naptha in its extraction) then I think the inherent dangers of the RSO should be pointed out. 

 

I think that the only way to cure the "problem" here would be to have a footnote post that reads, "see the thread named XYZ to examine the dangers of aforesaid treatment methods."  Then maybe a link could be dropped to such thread.  Maybe in the future the mods could start a secondary thread in cases like this and insert a post where appropriate with a link to the thread.  Then maybe cut the "offending" discussions and put them in the new thread?  Absent that sort of involved and structured solution I think we are stuck with hashing out issues and letting threads evolve accordingly. 

Edited by CaveatLector
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All I am asking is, has anyone done a confirmatory test of the notion that hardware store naphtha does/does not leave behind residue that boils above the decarb/boiling temps of cannabinoids? If not, maybe that would be in order before we make any more assumptions...

I think that when you are dealing with something potentially dangerous you should err on the side of it being dangerous before you engage in its use. So the assumption SHOULD be made that it is dangerous UNLESS proven otherwise. I'll borrow an adage from gun safety: Always treat a gun as if it is loaded. 

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I think that when you are dealing with something potentially dangerous you should err on the side of it being dangerous before you engage in its use. So the assumption SHOULD be made that it is dangerous UNLESS proven otherwise. I'll borrow an adage from gun safety: Always treat a gun as if it is loaded. 

I absolutely agree.

 

With all the insistence that naphtha is dangerous/not dangerous, I figured someone would have performed a cursory test before encouraging/discouraging its use. When I first started using butane in an open system with can gas, we did a spray test on a piece of glass or a mirror to see if there was any residue left.

 

I'm still not sure if anyone has performed a similar test using naphtha, which is what I'm trying to determine.

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Settle down bro, it was just a question. You are correct that we shouldn't use something as a solvent unless we know its not harmful.

 

However many solvents, when combined, form azeotropes that boil at a lower temp than either solvent alone.

 

For example, when we mix acetone and pentane at the proper ratios, the bp of the azeotrope is lower than that of either solvent individually.

 

All I am asking is, has anyone done a confirmatory test of the notion that hardware store naphtha does/does not leave behind residue that boils above the decarb/boiling temps of cannabinoids? If not, maybe that would be in order before we make any more assumptions...

 

The default assumption has to be that the average person will have average knowledge and will get average results.  You and I might have the chemistry background to see these issues up-front...but most people don't.  So when PB gets on-line and supports a naphtha extraction and the readers have no clue that "naphtha" might include compounds akin to kerosene...well, we have a problem. 

 

The fact is that there are many, many folks out there who have read about using "naphtha" as an extraction solvent. but they have no chemistry background.  So it is up to the likes of you and me to help point them in the right direction.  Hardware store naphtha should be considered "off-limits" until a specific product is identified as safe.  But when people sling the generic "naphtha" around, we set the stage for disaster.

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I absolutely agree.

 

With all the insistence that naphtha is dangerous/not dangerous, I figured someone would have performed a cursory test before encouraging/discouraging its use. When I first started using butane in an open system with can gas, we did a spray test on a piece of glass or a mirror to see if there was any residue left.

 

I'm still not sure if anyone has performed a similar test using naphtha, which is what I'm trying to determine.

 

I'm still at the "gimme a break" stage.

 

What could/would a "spray test" or similar prove with naphtha?

 

That the human eye can't see impurities....?  That the human nose can't smell them?

 

If I put a few ML of hardware store naphtha on a sheet of glass and heat it up and then see no evidence of residuals, should I be satisfied that it is safe.

 

I'm telling people not to use naphtha- PERIOD.

 

You seem to think that there is a good way to determine if whatever can of naphtha one pulls off the shelf is good for medical use.    OK...fine.

 

What procedures would you expect the advanced average user...say PB.....undergo to ensure that his extractions are free of residual petroleum?

 

That's the question.  We have two choices.. 1.)  Shut down naphtha use altogether or 2.) come up with a way for people to know for sure that they are using naphtha safety....

 

How do you propose to guide folks to determine if the naptha they use is safe and if the manner in which they use it is also safe?  This is the question of the day.

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The default assumption has to be that the average person will have average knowledge and will get average results.  You and I might have the chemistry background to see these issues up-front...but most people don't.  So when PB gets on-line and supports a naphtha extraction and the readers have no clue that "naphtha" might include compounds akin to kerosene...well, we have a problem. 

 

The fact is that there are many, many folks out there who have read about using "naphtha" as an extraction solvent. but they have no chemistry background.  So it is up to the likes of you and me to help point them in the right direction.  Hardware store naphtha should be considered "off-limits" until a specific product is identified as safe.  But when people sling the generic "naphtha" around, we set the stage for disaster.

Agreed. A boil test of these various solvents is in order. I've heard of people using naphtha, denatured alcohol, iso, and acetone from the hardware/grocery store. A residue analysis is definitely in order, but even still, manus can change a product slight that may not be a big deal to anyone but oil makers, so doing a preliminary crude residue test is something that should be done as part of the extraction process.

 

Another thing some may want to consider - if you have a DBA, it's fairly easy to get verifiably pure solvents sent to you. Generally it requires a commercial address, but maybe a local grow shop or pipe store would be willing to receive shipments for this purpose.

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Agreed. A boil test of these various solvents is in order. I've heard of people using naphtha, denatured alcohol, iso, and acetone from the hardware/grocery store. A residue analysis is definitely in order, but even still, manus can change a product slight that may not be a big deal to anyone but oil makers, so doing a preliminary crude residue test is something that should be done as part of the extraction process.

 

Another thing some may want to consider - if you have a DBA, it's fairly easy to get verifiably pure solvents sent to you. Generally it requires a commercial address, but maybe a local grow shop or pipe store would be willing to receive shipments for this purpose.

 

All very true and very helpful info.

 

My reaction is to people supporting using "naphtha" without also including the needed warnings.  If I tell a patient "do a naphtha extraction" and don't also include the needed warnings, etc., then I'm no more than a scumball or a fool.  But no better than either.

 

Peanutbutter was unable to post the associated warnings because he was banned for a period of time.  He hand enough time to to falsely state that Butane is a form of naphtha...that butane can blow you up....etc.....but he got banned before he was able to warn people about extracting using naphtha.  He was able to discuss 99% ISO and 91% iso alcohol.....but dang...not enough time to get into the relevant discussions of the dangers of naphtha.  He had enough time to talk about going to Illinois to try to sell PB oil to legislators.....but still no time to address the naptha issues.....

 

So I guess I need some help spreading the word - the dangers of naptha.  You can help, or add confusion.  The choice is yours.

 

Kinda sad that a person would take the time to post the positive side of a medical treatment but run out of time to post the warnings......oh well....It's only sick people.

 

Northernlabs - do you see the problem here?

Edited by Highlander
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Agreed. A boil test of these various solvents is in order. I've heard of people using naphtha, denatured alcohol, iso, and acetone from the hardware/grocery store. A residue analysis is definitely in order, but even still, manus can change a product slight that may not be a big deal to anyone but oil makers, so doing a preliminary crude residue test is something that should be done as part of the extraction process.

 

Another thing some may want to consider - if you have a DBA, it's fairly easy to get verifiably pure solvents sent to you. Generally it requires a commercial address, but maybe a local grow shop or pipe store would be willing to receive shipments for this purpose.

 

This is exactly the problem with using a product not in accordance with its labeled instructions. 

 

The guys who make naphtha make it for people who need paint thinner and furniture polish....so their MSDS, etc. will be geared towards these industries.  These folks don't make naphtha for the medical field, so you would not expect to see such issues addressed by the manufacturer.  They guys who make  the naphtha don't consider that maybe some day someone will ingest its residuals as part of a medical treatment.

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This is exactly the problem with using a product not in accordance with its labeled instructions.

 

The guys who make naphtha make it for people who need paint thinner and furniture polish....so their MSDS, etc. will be geared towards these industries. These folks don't make naphtha for the medical field, so you would not expect to see such issues addressed by the manufacturer. They guys who make the naphtha don't consider that maybe some day someone will ingest its residuals as part of a medical treatment.

Agreed. I think we need to come up with a solution as a community so our oil makers have easy access to the proper solvents. Maybe a couple of CC's with their own buildings would be wiling to help in this area.

 

more often than not, these verifiably clean solvents are cost prohibitive for the average person, and building a solvent recovery apparatus is even more daunting a task. I'm not saying it is a justification to use questionable solvents, but explains why people will just use what they can get their hands on but more expensive solvents should force extraction makers to step up their tek.

 

I've posted links to Internet merchants that sell 190 ethanol by the bottle or case. Ethanol does have its drawbacks, but leftover residue isn't one. If you find yourself at a loss for alternatives, 190 is a good choice, especially if you're a noob.

Edited by Northern Lab
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All very true and very helpful info.

 

My reaction is to people supporting using "naphtha" without also including the needed warnings.  If I tell a patient "do a naphtha extraction" and don't also include the needed warnings, etc., then I'm no more than a scumball or a fool.  But no better than either.

 

Peanutbutter was unable to post the associated warnings because he was banned for a period of time.  He hand enough time to to falsely state that Butane is a form of naphtha...that butane can blow you up....etc.....but he got banned before he was able to warn people about extracting using naphtha.  He was able to discuss 99% ISO and 91% iso alcohol.....but dang...not enough time to get into the relevant discussions of the dangers of naphtha.  He had enough time to talk about going to Illinois to try to sell PB oil to legislators.....but still no time to address the naptha issues.....

 

So I guess I need some help spreading the word - the dangers of naptha.  You can help, or add confusion.  The choice is yours.

 

Kinda sad that a person would take the time to post the positive side of a medical treatment but run out of time to post the warnings......oh well....It's only sick people.

 

Northernlabs - do you see the problem here?

 

The "problem" is that I get buried under questions while several people do everything they can to discredit me. Two or three .. I might be able to handle. Maybe I missed the question you expect me to answer when I decided to ignore CL. With CL that time, I was fighting at least four people at the same time here.

 

HOW MANY DAYS OF THAT CAN YOU STAND?

 

So .. am I in error when I say people blow up houses with butane?

Edited by peanutbutter
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The "problem" is that I get buried under questions while several people do everything they can to discredit me.

 

So .. am I in error when I say people blow up houses with butane?

 

Yep.  Butane blows up houses.  Don't use it. 

 

Don't use naptha either.  It also blows up houses and people.  And it can leave nasty residuals behind.

 

You, for years, have advocated naphtha without bothering to tell people about the residuals that heavy naphtha will leave behind.

 

Can we focus on naphtha now?  Finally?

 

And maybe you can explain why it is that you can time and again point out the dangers of butane but you ran out of time to post the dangers of naphtha before you got banned.  That's what you said.  You couldn't warn of the dangers of naphtha because you got banned.  You had just enough time to ell people to use naphtha but not quite enough to articulate the obvious dangers.  Those are words that you must now life with.  Enjoy.

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The "problem" is that I get buried under questions while several people do everything they can to discredit me. Two or three .. I might be able to handle. Maybe I missed the question you expect me to answer when I decided to ignore CL. With CL that time, I was fighting at least four people at the same time here.

 

HOW MANY DAYS OF THAT CAN YOU STAND?

 

So .. am I in error when I say people blow up houses with butane?

 

 

The problem is that you discredit yourself.  Whether it is your "battery acid" post, or now this - or many of your misguided posts in between.

 

People are not trying to discredit you.  They are correcting the crap you post.  Was Anne Kenewell trying to discredit you when she posted against your "battery acid" nonsense?  Was Dr. Bob trying to discredit you when he warned about you injecting unsterilized goo into an open diabetic sore?

 

No.  They are discrediting the CRAP you posted.

 

Learn the difference, and grow up.  Speaking to you as an adult hasn't worked.  Time to treat you like a child I guess.

 

Fighting multiple people - maybe...on the same topic.....the topic on which you decided to go obtuse.  Maybe if there are multiple people disagreeing with you, that might be a clue that it is time to reevaluate your position, rather than defend it...or try to defend it.   Yet your defense for advocating naphtha is that some people blow up houses with butane.  It doesn't make any reasonable sense.  If you are having trouble keeping up with the reactions to the CRAP you post, maybe you should read/learn more and post less.

 

(I might add that a day ago, you said that butane is a type of naphtha.  I pointed out where you were wrong.  Now, you call butane the devil.  So two days ago when you supported "naphtha," by your own (misguided) definition of "naphtha" butane was included.  So you're all over the board...trying to misconstrue facts to support a conclusion you already came to years ago before you looked at the facts.  This never works.  It is best just to acknowledge/learn from mistakes and try to help others avoid the same mistakes.  Or you can obfuscate.  Too bad you didn't make the better choice)

Edited by Highlander
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Don't extract with butane unless you're haz-mat certified and have a fume hood, intrinsically safe fan, and a combustible gas indicator on-hand.

 

Don't extract with naphtha - ever.

 

Good enough?  Does this narrow down the discussion enough?  Can we talk about napththa now?  And the difference between light and heavy naphtha....and a patient's expectation that all naptha is boiled away?

 

can we talk about this now...FINALLY?  Or do you have some other items you want to cloud the discussion with first?

Edited by Highlander
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Better yet PB - how about this.  Rather than you recanting and admitting your foolishness and incomplete information regarding using naphtha, just do this.

 

Tell us which naphtha product you use/have used for extractions?  And the naphtha product you feel is safer (all things considered) than butane?

 

Good enough?  Let's quit dancing around the facts.

 

What naphtha do you use???

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http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/bf/bfb9e5da-773d-4116-a279-b23cf9345aaf.pdf

 

This is what is sold at Home Depot in the paint aisle, and the MSDS says the boiling point is > 242 F, and that it is not 100% volatile by weight.

No, just 99.999% volatile By weight ;)

 

Thank you for posting that. I see that sheet indicates that it is 95 to 100% light aliphatics. The boiling point listed seemed sort of high for light aliphatic hydrocarbons, tho.

 

The other 5% could be aromatics, which would not be good, And may explain the unusually high boiling point for aliphatics

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I'm sorry, I just had to restrict his posting. He'll be back in 30 days again.

 

Bummer.  I was saving the best for last.  I guess he can still read it.

 

Undecane is a component of naphtha - boils at 196C. 

 

Undecane is a mild sex attractant for moths and cockroachs

 

So when you boil off your naphtha at 200C you not only lose your THC, you lose your Undecane.  Double Whammy.

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