Extracts And Solvents

[GregS]

 

 

IDK. PG boils at 187C...

 

 

I don't think it burns, just boils. Vapor is vapor, whether it is atomized thermally or mechanically.

At what temperature(s) do(es) cannabanoids go into the gaseous stage, or boil, at standard pressure?

[Northern Lab]

At what temperature(s) do(es) cannabanoids go into the gaseous stage, or boil, at standard pressure?

Thc boils at 314F and CBd boils about 350-360f.

[GregS]

Thc boils at 314F and CBd boils about 350-360f.

Subsequently it will not boil or vaporize until and unless the glycol is first entirely boiled away. Liquid filled cartridges are useless.

[GregS]

I do find that cartomizers work well, I have tried that and the single use cartomizer, which works pretty well and makes for a nice conversation piece.They offer very efficient and hard hitting delivery. Titration is simple and immediate. That some smoke is produced cannot be avoided, unless there is something I don't know. I do not see them any more dangerous than hash in a pipe, but far cleaner than smoking bud.

[Hydraulic Jack]

How many here smoke out of a pipe and use a bic lighter to light it?  Have you ever taken the flame of a bic to something metal? It turns it black...That's from the impurities in the butane they use...Think about how much of that you inhale while smoking flowers in a pipe....If you use a lighter, buy a refillable one and fill it with (quality) 5x filtered butane....HJ

[cristinew]

how many of them smoke cigarettes ,,,,,,,, 

[Northern Lab]

Subsequently it will not boil or vaporize until and unless the glycol is first entirely boiled away. Liquid filled cartridges are useless.

PG boils @ 187C/368.6F

 

THC/CBD boil @ 314-360F

 

Sorry, I probably tripped you up with the F/C thing.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Northern Lab

[GregS]

PG boils @ 187C/368.6F

 

THC/CBD boil @ 314-360F

 

Sorry, I probably tripped you up with the F/C thing.

Yah. These cart hits are magnificent.

[Northern Lab]

We've recently been experimenting with isobutane extractions. So far, we've found the extract seems to come out a shade or two lighter than the extract made with n- butane. Yields appear to be identical. We believe the color to be a function of the bp of the gas, not a difference in what is extracted. Isobutane boils at lower temps, so it requires less heat to turn to a recoverable gas form.

[GregS]

Are cannabanoids soluble in alkaline solutions?

[GregS]

Potash?

[Northern Lab]

Never heard/read one way or another.

 

I believe alkalines can be used as catalysts in isomerization/acetylation of cannabinoids.

[GregS]

Never heard/read one way or another.

 

I believe alkalines can be used as catalysts in isomerization/acetylation of cannabinoids.

Will a cannabanoid or isomer thereof bond with a hydroxide?

[Northern Lab]

Will a cannabanoid or isomer thereof bond with a hydroxide?

In an alkali catalyzed reaction, it may do so briefly, I'm not sure if a bond could be made permanently stable.

[GregS]

It would seem that decarboxylated cannabanoids would have stronger bonding qualities.

[Northern Lab]

GW pharma has figured out a way to make decarbed cannabinoids work in a spray bottle, so there has to be a way.

 

Anyone know what the components of Sativex are?

[Northern Lab]

Do you have a source for the bold? Does 190 Everclear really contain enough sugar to coat one's lungs?

 

Safe solvent extraction of botanicals has been going on for a minute now, so we have lots of data to refer to. Cannabis resin isn't much different from other plant resins. It can be extracted safely using a number of different solvents and techniques, each with it's own advantage over the next. As long as you know what you're doing and understand basic organic chemistry, you can make any solvent extract as safe or safer than mom's apple pie.

 

Problem is, of course, some folks don't know what they're doing, pass out bad product, and make a bad name for solvent extracts.

Just in case you missed it... Edited June 4, 2013 by Northern Lab

[+washtenaut]

I found this link from the Philly Children's Hospital Poison Control Center to be very informative.  They answer the question I had about naphtha residue accumulating in the body or passing with each ingestion.

Check it out.  Here is an excerpt:

Probably the most useful means of classifying hydrocarbons is with respect to their clinical effects. Two groups may be described: (1) hydrocarbons which are easily aspirated following ingestion and (2) hydrocarbons that may produce systemic toxicity in addition to their aspiration potential. The first group includes aliphatic hydrocarbons such as kerosene, mineral spirits, gasoline, naphtha and mineral seal oil. They are poorly absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract, and therefore are not expected to produce systemic effects.2-6

http://www.chop.edu/service/poison-control-center/tox-talk/hydrocarbon-ingestion.html
 

[GregS]

When we talk about hydroxides we essentially are talking about soap. How bad can that be? My mom fed it to me often.

[ozzrokk]

When we talk about hydroxides we essentially are talking about soap. How bad can that be? My mom fed it to me often.

 

 

 

Now that was funny right there....... I don't care who you are..... That's funny

[GrowGoddess]

To each their own. I am all for using my concentrated cannabis (RSO) mixed with propylene glycol, which is also used in e-cigarette oils, in my vaporizer. The vaporizer in this picture is bad a s s! It is the best vaping experience I have ever had.  It is not a pen vaporizer, this one is much bigger. It looks like a miniature light sabre! These vaporizers are considered APV (Adjustable Personal Vaporizer). These types of vaporizers can usually adjust the wattage and voltage and also has a built in ohm meter.

 

 

[OG Fire Beaster]

A lot of good info on PG

 

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp189.pdf

 

According to the MSDS it is toxic to the CNS and causes irritation of the respiratory track.

 

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927239

 

 

Some people are allergic to it. Can cause burning of the mucous membranes, swelling, and eczematous rashes. The most common sign of a PG allergy is a burning sensation when putting on deodorant.

Edited June 7, 2013 by OG Fire Beaster

[Northern Lab]

A lot of good info on PG

 

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp189.pdf

 

According to the MSDS it is toxic to the CNS and causes irritation of the respiratory track.

 

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927239

 

 

Some people are allergic to it. Can cause burning of the mucous membranes, swelling, and eczematous rashes. The most common sign of a PG allergy is a burning sensation when putting on deodorant.

 

From your link:

 

 

1.1

WHAT IS PROPYLENE GLYCOL?

Propylene glycol is a synthetic liquid substance that absorbs water. Propylene glycol is also used

to make polyester compounds, and as a base for de-icing solutions. Propylene glycol is used by

the chemical, food, and pharmaceutical industries as an antifreeze when leakage might lead to

contact with food. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has classified propylene glycol as an additive that is “generally recognized as safe” for use in food. It is used to absorb extra water and maintain moisture in certain medicines, cosmetics, or food products. It is a solvent for food

colors and flavors, and in the paint and plastics industries. Propylene glycol is also used tocreate artificial smoke or fog used in fire-fighting training and in theatrical productions. Other names for propylene glycol are 1,2-dihydroxypropane, 1,2-propanediol, methyl glycol, and

trimethyl glycol.

 

Propylene glycol is clear, colorless, slightly syrupy liquid at room temperature. It may exist in

air in the vapor form, although propylene glycol must be heated or briskly shaken to produce a

vapor. Propylene glycol is practically odorless and tasteless.

 

------------------------------------------------

 

1.4

 

HOW CAN PROPYLENE GLYCOL ENTER AND LEAVE MY BODY?

Propylene glycol can enter your bloodstream if you breathe air containing mists or vapors from

either compound. It can also enter your bloodstream through your skin if you come in direct

contact with it and do not wash it off. If you eat products that contain propylene glycol, it may

enter your bloodstream. Exposure of the general population to propylene glycol is likely since

many foods, drugs, and

cosmetics contain it.

Propylene glycol breaks down in the body in about 48 hours. However, studies of people and

animals show that if you have repeated eye, skin, nasal, or oral exposures to propylene glycol for

a short time, you may develop some irritation.

1.5

 

HOW CAN PROPYLENE GLYCOL AFFECT MY HEALTH?

Propylene glycol breaks down at the same rate as ethylene glycol, although it does not form

harmful crystals when it breaks down. Frequent skin exposure to propylene glycol can

sometimes irritate the skin.

1.6

 

ARE THERE MEDICAL TESTS TO DETERMINE WHETHER I HAVE BEEN

EXPOSED TO PROPYLENE GLYCOL?

Propylene glycol is generally considered to be a safe chemical, and is not routinely tested for,

unless specific exposure, such as to a medicine or cosmetic, can be linked with the observed bad

symptoms. Since propylene glycol breaks down very quickly in the body, it is very difficult to

detect.

[Northern Lab]

Little more, same link:

 

 

2.2.1

Inhalation Exposure

Information regarding health effects of propylene glycol following inhalation exposure is limited. No

studies of health effects in humans were found. Studies in animals were few (Konradova et al. 1978;

Robertson et al. 1947; Suber et al. 1989).

 

The amounts ingested even by nicotine based ecig users is very low. PG is also a major ingredient in asthma inhalers, and has been for 50 years or so. Also, the link indicates that PG allergy exists in about 1% of the population, so the chances for an adverse reaction are astronomically low.

[OG Fire Beaster]

Also from the links

 

MSDS:

 

Potential Acute Health Effects:

Hazardous in case of ingestion. Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant, permeator), of eye contact (irritant), of

inhalation.

Potential Chronic Health Effects:

Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact (sensitizer). CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. MUTAGENIC EFFECTS:

Not available. TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available. The substance may be

toxic to central nervous system (CNS). Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage.

 

Precautions:

Keep away from heat. Keep away from sources of ignition. Empty containers pose a fire risk, evaporate the residue under a

fume hood. Ground all equipment containing material. Do not ingest. Do not breathe gas/fumes/ vapor/spray. Wear suitable

protective clothing. In case of insufficient ventilation, wear suitable respiratory equipment. If ingested, seek medical advice

immediately and show the container or the label. Avoid contact with skin and eyes. Keep away from incompatibles such as

oxidizing agents, reducing agents, acids, alkalis, moisture.

 

Special Remarks on other Toxic Effects on Humans:

Acute Potential Health Effects: Skin: May cause mild skin irritation. It may be absorbed through the skin and cause systemic

effects similar to those of ingestion. Eyes: May cause mild eye irritation with some immediate, transitory stinging, lacrimation,

blepharospasm, and mild transient conjunctival hyperemia. There is no residual discomfort or injury once it is washed

away. Inhalation: May cause respiratory tract irritation. Ingestion: It may cause gastrointestinal tract irritation. It may affect

behavior/central nervous system(CNS depression, general anesthetic, convulsions, seizures, somnolence, stupor, muscle

contraction or spasticity, coma), brain (changes in surface EEG), metabolism, blood (intravascular hemolysis, white blood

cells - decreased neutrophil function), respiration (respiratory stimulation, chronic pulmonary edema, cyanosis), cardiovascular

system(hypotension, bradycardia, arrhythmias, cardiac arrest), endocrine system (hypoglycemia), urinary system (kidneys),

and liver. Chronic Potential Health Effects: Skin: Prolonged or repeated skin contact may cause allergic contact dermatitis.

Ingestion: Prolonged or repeated ingestion may cause hyperglycemia and may affect behavior/CNS (symptoms similar to that

of acute ingestion). Inhalation: Prolonged or repeated inhalation may affect behavior/CNS (with symptoms similar to ingestion),

and spleen

 

The other link:

 

TOXICOLOGICAL PROFILE FOR

 

PROPYLENE GLYCOL

 

2.2.2.4

Neurologi

cal Effects

Adverse neurological reactions were observed in patients who tested positive in a propylene glycol patch

test after an acute oral challenge with 2

-15 mL of propylene glycol (Hannuksela and Forström 1978).

Although the observed neurotoxicity is attributed to propylene glycol, the study reports that this response

was seen in allergic individuals. In a case of acute propylene glycol poisoning, neurotoxic symptoms

included stupor and repetitive convulsions (Lolin et al. 1988). The study does not s

pecify the amount of

propylene glycol that caused neurotoxicity. Various degrees of propylene glycol neurotoxicity were also

observed in a group of 16 outpatients of a neurology clinic after acute oral exposure to 887 mg/kg 3 times

per day for at least 3 d

ays, using a formulation containing phenytoin and ethanol (Yu et al. 1985). Very

severe mental symptoms (not specified) were observed in one patient who had the highest overall

propylene glycol plasma concentration, although patients with lower plasma prop

ylene glycol levels

showed similar neurotoxicity. The estimated half-life of propylene glycol is 3.8 hours. This means that

there is a measurable accumulation of propylene glycol if it is ingested in the course of a multiple

-dosing

regimen (Yu et al. 1985). The limitation of the study is that it does not specify if the observed propylene

glycol effects may have been associated with the neurological problems already present in those patients

or with concomitant ingestion of ethanol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not saying it is certainly harmful, it is in many many products. The literature indicates that there are not that many studies about its effects. I just would not be repeatedly "vaporizing" and inhaling it.

 

I tried e-cigs for a couple weeks and I really did not like the way I felt compared to "traditional" smokes.

Edited June 7, 2013 by OG Fire Beaster