Duckduckgo, The Prism-Proof Search Engine That The Nsa Just Can’T Track

[Celliach]

But doing that costs everyone else money.  Who do you think pays for that Bob?  The taxpayers of Michigan.  Everybody posting on this board pays for it.  That's one of the reasons why they passed the ACA.  So we all wouldn't have to keep paying for expensive visits to the ER for people that couldn't afford a doctor.  Using the ER as a doctor is costing the citizens of the US millions of dollars every year.  I understand you don't have a choice Bob.  That's the real travesty.  

 

Is Torey getting better?  Or are they just making it so she's not in immediate danger?  We're paying inflated medical costs so she doesn't get better.  It's a messed up problem, and one that will actually be solved by the ACA. (Obamacare)

[bobandtorey]

So then when it does kick in we can look forward to our Tax dollars going down?

as far as Torey health thats a long winded story most of her Health is worrying about court if all go"s well the 27th maybe things with her will be better 

 

we shall see after that

[OG Fire Beaster]

The VA is the epitome of poor health care. It is not way better than the ER, that is if you are willing to make the drive just to get to a VA hospital in the first place.

 

VET

Former DOD hospital employee

 

The Claim that California is/will save money has been debunked. I will gladly show the proof but I know the source will be attacked.

The new insurance plans are not comparable to the old plans. Sky high deductibles as well.

[bobandtorey]

With 3.000 pages in it theirs not going to be much in it for us IMHO 

[Celliach]

So then when it does kick in we can look forward to our Tax dollars going down?

as far as Torey health thats a long winded story most of her Health is worrying about court if all go"s well the 27th maybe things with her will be better 

 

we shall see after that

Well, I hope she starts getting better soon.

[OG Fire Beaster]

Oh there will be stuff in it for us. Whether we want it or not is the question. They'll send your request for treatment to Cincy and let it sit for a couple years while they determine what you have been praying about.

[Celliach]

The VA is the epitome of poor health care. It is not way better than the ER, that is if you are willing to make the drive just to get to a VA hospital in the first place.

 

VET

Former DOD hospital employee

 

The Claim that California is/will save money has been debunked. I will gladly show the proof but I know the source will be attacked.

The new insurance plans are not comparable to the old plans. Sky high deductibles as well.

 

Keep believing the right-wing propaganda.  Remember these were the same people that said we would be communist by now because of Medicare.  The very same people.  

 

Here's an article by a health industry organization,not a political one, that shows the ACA is already saving money.

http://yourhealthsecurity.org/posts/3620-obamacare-already-saving-millions-improving-care

 

I'd like to see you show me the opposite from a non-political organization.

[bobandtorey]

i agree if the president would have come out  on TV and said look people you are going to have the same care as i do

 

people would be standing in line to sign up

[bobandtorey]

Keep believing the right-wing propaganda.  Remember these were the same people that said we would be communist by now because of Medicare.  The very same people.  

 

Here's an article by a health industry organization,not a political one, that shows the ACA is already saving money.

http://yourhealthsecurity.org/posts/3620-obamacare-already-saving-millions-improving-care

 

I'd like to see you show me the opposite from a non-political organization.

 

 

Thanks i will read it later

[OG Fire Beaster]

Sure thing.

 

By the way your non political article sites Bloomberg and The Urban Institute as its sources. Non Political? ok. Let me know what the guidelines for being a non bias source are so that we can continue.

[OG Fire Beaster]

On the "act now" link of the page you provided it openly advocates for the ACA. How is what you presented non biased or non political?

 

Consumers union aka "consumers reports" is the parent organization of the group you just provided. They frequently advocate for the democrat party.

 

http://www.examiner.com/article/is-consumer-reports-an-advocate-for-liberal-policies

Edited June 16, 2013 by OG Fire Beaster

[OG Fire Beaster]

Lets start with this one.

 

Actually read the article and please comment on what it contains.

The article that you gave me used WSJ as a source. So I will also use it as a source.

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323469804578523623272958456.html

[OG Fire Beaster]

Lets add this one as well.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/06/03/democrats-new-argument-its-a-good-thing-that-obamacare-doubles-individual-health-insurance-premiums/

 

Here is a quote from this article where the author states he is a supporter of universal coverage. Facts are not biased.

 

And I appreciate Ezra’s perspective. I, too, am a supporter of universal coverage, so I understand Ezra’s passion for providing health insurance to the sick. But what we didn’t know last week—and we do now—is how much more the healthy will have to pay for that insurance, under Obamacare. In Orange County, where Irvine is located, the three-fourths of the 25-year-old population that is in good health will have their premiums jacked by 95 percent.

Edited June 16, 2013 by OG Fire Beaster

[OG Fire Beaster]

Please view this one as well. It contains many relevant charts and data sets.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/05/30/rate-shock-in-california-obamacare-to-increase-individual-insurance-premiums-by-64-146/

[Celliach]

Oh there will be stuff in it for us. Whether we want it or not is the question. They'll send your request for treatment to Cincy and let it sit for a couple years while they determine what you have been praying about.

 

You do realize that it was a Republican that ordered the extra scrutiny on the tea party IRS applications.  Applications that the Tea Party didn't even have to file.  That's allegedly why Issa hasn't released the transcripts from the investigation yet, and why Cummings said he would make it all public next week if Issa didn't.

[Celliach]

Sorry, I looked at the website's name and assumed it was nonpolitical.  Apparently a huge mistake on my part.  I was admittedly in a hurry this morning and didn't spend as much time as I should have.

[OG Fire Beaster]

I'm not a fan of team R or team D.

[Celliach]

I'm not either.  I would rather vote for someone I really think should be in office rather than vote for the lesser of two evils.  At this point in time, I honestly believe most of the Republicans are crazy though.  The hard bend to the right with no compromise is killing this country slowly.  It's what we get, I guess, for electing people that publicly say government is the problem.  How do we expect them to make it work, if they think most of it shouldn't even exist?

 

Our founding fathers set up a good system for us to use, but it depends on the people actually being involved in it.  Apathy is, and has been, a rampant problem with governing this country.  Most people just don't care, and the minority of people began to take over the government using that apathy....and a lot of money.  By spreading distrust in the government they make the problem even worse, putting the idea that we can change things through interaction farther and farther from our thoughts.  By making the government "the problem" as Reagan said, they've made the government a separate entity from the people by characterizing it as the enemy, when in fact, it was set up by our founding fathers as the tool to be used against these very same people.

 

But we have to use it to make it work, not fight against it.  As the great Abe Lincoln said, " ...government of the people, by the people, for the people..."

 

I'd actually like to see more parties so we'd have coalition governments like Britain or Israel.

[OG Fire Beaster]

I can agree with much of what you said. I think the craziness is rampant in both parties. Part of the problem is the government has been set up as a different entity than the rest of the citizens. It uses the coercive power of law, violence, and imprisonment to enforce its will. The majority of the actions taken by it is through unelected bureaucrats that have made careers out of civil service. Their is two distinct classes of people in this country. Government and public employees have become a club. The country was not set up to have almost 1/3 of the population getting paid by tax dollars. That is where my mistrust comes from. It is a clear conflict of interest to survive off the tax of your fellow citizens by threat of the gun. Making it bigger just makes it worse. Somethings become so big that they cease to function. That is where we are. Meanwhile the people that get voted into office are the ones that promise to take more from your opponent and give it to you for whichever pet projects they represent.

[OG Fire Beaster]

Back to the topic of the OP

 

This is a good article about it.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/14/nsa-partisanship-propaganda-prism

 

 

this too

 

Edited June 16, 2013 by OG Fire Beaster

[OG Fire Beaster]

One more.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/14/the-sickening-snowden-backlash.html

 

This one goes into detail about how this situation highlights the need for mistrust of government, especially during "the most transparent administration" in history.

[1lluminated1]

I can agree with much of what you said. I think the craziness is rampant in both parties. Part of the problem is the government has been set up as a different entity than the rest of the citizens. It uses the coercive power of law, violence, and imprisonment to enforce its will. The majority of the actions taken by it is through unelected bureaucrats that have made careers out of civil service. Their is two distinct classes of people in this country. Government and public employees have become a club. The country was not set up to have almost 1/3 of the population getting paid by tax dollars. That is where my mistrust comes from. It is a clear conflict of interest to survive off the tax of your fellow citizens by threat of the gun. Making it bigger just makes it worse. Somethings become so big that they cease to function. That is where we are. Meanwhile the people that get voted into office are the ones that promise to take more from your opponent and give it to you for whichever pet projects they represent.

 

Good post OG Fire!  Both parties are corrupt and have made us the lesser class treating us as peasants. 

 

And Celiach?  Why do you keep blaming the republicans?  Why can't you accept that barry is a fraud and hasn't kept one campaign promise he made?  Never once do I bring up partisan politics like you do.  They are both working for the same team and that is the global bankers and lobbyists. 

 

[Celliach]

I can agree with much of what you said. I think the craziness is rampant in both parties. Part of the problem is the government has been set up as a different entity than the rest of the citizens. It uses the coercive power of law, violence, and imprisonment to enforce its will. The majority of the actions taken by it is through unelected bureaucrats that have made careers out of civil service. Their is two distinct classes of people in this country. Government and public employees have become a club. The country was not set up to have almost 1/3 of the population getting paid by tax dollars. That is where my mistrust comes from. It is a clear conflict of interest to survive off the tax of your fellow citizens by threat of the gun. Making it bigger just makes it worse. Somethings become so big that they cease to function. That is where we are. Meanwhile the people that get voted into office are the ones that promise to take more from your opponent and give it to you for whichever pet projects they represent.

 

That's the attitude that i was talking about in my post above.  They've convinced you that the government is a separate entity than the people thereby keeping control of it.  It's an interactive political system, and if you believe it's separate from you then you won't participate.  The less people that participate, the easier it is to control the legislation.  The people that are getting voted into office are getting there because half the people don't vote and half that do vote don't pay attention to anything but jingos, slogans and sound-bytes.

[Celliach]

Good post OG Fire!  Both parties are corrupt and have made us the lesser class treating us as peasants. 

 

And Celiach?  Why do you keep blaming the republicans?  Why can't you accept that barry is a fraud and hasn't kept one campaign promise he made?  Never once do I bring up partisan politics like you do.  They are both working for the same team and that is the global bankers and lobbyists. 

 

 

I'm blaming the tea party republicans for the financial situation because it is their fault.  I'm blaming the same people for social legislation that is based on 1950s philosophy.  I'm blaming the same people for screwing up the government by going to Washington and treating the government as a a problem, not a tool to be used to make life better for everyone.  They've gone off on a crazy bend, and won't even talk about compromise.  That's what our country was founded on, compromise.  I'm blaming them for filing a record number of filibusters assuring the senate gets nothing done.

 

I can blame the democrats for stuff too.  Political correctness can go too far.  Many of them are just as much of a corporate shill as most of the republicans.  In that respect, both parties are very much the same.  I think they often push through legislation without thinking of the long term ramifications of the entire society, not just about the scope of the bill being passed.  I think the dems are a bunch of non-organized pansies for the most part.  I think they pushed through too much law and order BS in the 1990s.  I don't agree with a lot of the drone program.  I think Guantanamo is creating more enemies and should be closed.

 

There are things I will defend on both sides too.  One of those things is the ACA.  I really think that, like Medicare and Social Security, everyone will be darn glad they have it 10 years up the road and won't be willing to give it up. I'd even be willing to bet on that.

 

The thing that bothers me the most about these debates is the people that sit and make the government some superpower that lords over us when it's actually supposed to be our servant.  The only way to make it serve us though is to give it directions, and most of us don't think they can change it, or think they shouldn't participate or just don't give a flyingfuck at all.  That's how big corporations took over our government and are using it as their tool, instead of us, and they keep spreading the idea of dissent against the government so people think it's their enemy instead of participating in it.  You don't think we can  change things?  We got the MMMA passed directly through public involvement!

 

If you don't like the government, change it.  It was set up that way.  However it was set up to change slowly.  The society as a whole sticks together better when change comes slowly.  It sucks for some of us, but it's better for all of us.

[bobandtorey]

 We got the MMMA passed directly through public involvement 

 

And a lot of Money