I Say, Yes: Put People In Prison For A Plant

[pic book]

The poppy, coca, and peyote cactus have good uses but when man misuses anything(think guns) prison is sometimes justified. Heroin is the driver for the girls out my window working Fort Street, and when they can't get johns anymore some turn to home invasions--and worse, to get heroin, which comes from a plant. The plant is both good (morphine), and bad(heroin). It's not the plant per se--it's what people do with it.

 

It grates to read some slogans, like "You don't put people in prision for a plant". Like moth-eaten blankets, the maxim is full of holes.

Edited June 28, 2013 by pic book

[Wild Bill]

I disagree. No one has harmed anyone else until the home invasion. Put them in prison for that.

[cristinew]

When you make things illegal this is the result

[Dr. Bob]

I don't agree that someone should be put in jail for a plant.  I think they should be put in jail if they use a plant to exploit or damage others.  Home invasions/turf wars/fraud- these are things that people go to jail for.  When people took plants and gave them extraordinary prices the value brought out the worst in some.  The vast majority are honest, fair people looking for relief of suffering.

 

You don't put the heroin user in jail unless they resort to crime to feed their habit (then you put them in jail for the crime), you give them treatment.  The ones you go after are the ones that exploit them because of their addiction and drive them to crime.

 

We have a medical marijuana act to allow patients access to this wonderful, helpful medication.  Follow the limits and all is well.  I don't know where an 8000 plant grow fits in that spectrum.  Foolishness, Greed, Criminal?  I don't know.  I think if we want to punish users of a plant, we need to look at the activity and circumstances surrounding the use and the impact it has on society rather than the use itself when we decide if it is criminal or not.

 

Dr. Bob

[OG Fire Beaster]

Poppy and coca require a great deal of manipulation to become a dangerous drug. It is not the plant that is the problem. In Bolivia people buy coca leaves at the grocery store and chew them. Poppy's make a beautiful ornamental flower and are perfectly legal. I've never actually seen live peyote in the wild, only potted plants for sale in Amsterdam. It is the act of trying to control others through violence that is the problem. The world is not safe, it never will be. Trying to make it "safe" is what is causing many of our problems. Should metal or polymers be illegal? They are the ingredients of guns and blades, which are dangerous, and often empower people to commit violent acts. No, of course they shouldn't.

 

Government was never meant to be our pre-crime fighting nanny IMO.

[greenbuddha]

I believe that no one should be thrown in jail for the 'personal use' of a 'chemical / plant' (taking the plant / chemical internally into your own body).

'Use', when brought to the attention of 'authorities', should be treated as a problem of addiction and a medical problem, NOT as a crime issue.

Of course I'm not a chemical expert or an LEO... BUT I did stay at a Holliday Inn last night

[Celliach]

What if I, personally, was using castor bean plants to make ricin?

[greenbuddha]

What if I, personally, was using castor bean plants to make ricin?

 

If you are personally using this drug (as in taking the drug internally, which I think was the meaning in previous posts) there is no problem; you would be deceased, as in dead, as in croaked, as in gone .

 

P.S. Changed my previous post so that there was no confusion on how  "I", personally was using the term 'use'.

[OG Fire Beaster]

What if.......

 

Well the Castor oil plant is ornamental and the beans can be used to make a poison. There is nothing currently illegal about having castor beans, or the castor oil plant. Not sure why you even posted that other than to be obnoxious. Global production of castor beans is around 1 million tons a year. Castor oil is very common and perfectly safe in normal doses. If you make a poison out of it, you have created something other than the plant/seed. Why even post that?

 

Cyanide comes from almonds.... so what.

[greenbuddha]

What if.......

 

Well the Castor oil plant is ornamental and the beans can be used to make a poison. There is nothing currently illegal about having castor beans, or the castor oil plant. Not sure why you even posted that other than to be obnoxious. Global production of castor beans is around 1 million tons a year. Castor oil is very common and perfectly safe in normal doses. If you make a poison out of it, you have created something other than the plant/seed. Why even post that?

 

Cyanide comes from almonds.... so what.

 

Was a bit confused, myself.

[thanks2]

Great posts in this thread!

 

There is absolutely no difference between morphine("good") and heroin("bad") besides heroin is illegal and only 1/3 the dose is needed to achieve the same effect relative to morphine.  They both are metabolized into the exact same drug and have the exact same effect.  As was said above, the legal status has caused the problem.

[Celliach]

I'm just pointing out that sweeping generalizations like "You don't put people in prision (sic) for a plant" aren't as cut and dry as they seem to be.

[OG Fire Beaster]

I got you. Most things in life are not black and white, as I am sure you know. When there is a question or uncertainty, I try to err on the side of freedom. People can not be protected from everything all the time. Trying to do so creates the problems we now face. Jailing people, mostly minorities, in the name of saving children is nonsense to me. Bad things are going to happen to good people in life, that we can be sure of.

[cristinew]

yes its cut and dry you should not be putting people in jail that do no harm to others,, whether a plant or a stone ,,,

[phaquetoo]

The poppy, coca, and peyote cactus have good uses but when man misuses anything(think guns) prison is sometimes justified. Heroin is the driver for the girls out my window working Fort Street, and when they can't get johns anymore some turn to home invasions--and worse, to get heroin, which comes from a plant. The plant is both good (morphine), and bad(heroin). It's not the plant per se--it's what people do with it.

 

It grates to read some slogans, like "You don't put people in prision for a plant". Like moth-eaten blankets, the maxim is full of holes.

plants and guns dont kill, people do!

 

It is a choice of life for most of the people on the streets under the bridge, next time you see some one holding a sign that reads will work for food or a donation stop and let them do a lil work for you, let me know how that works out, ive done it, Ive not found one that was realy willing to work, people make bad choices in life and some of them choices may lead to the grave or prison, and the only reason their are more minoritys in prison is because they dont work their way out of the poor house, every one has the same chances in life to improve and get a good education, every one! people that choose to go down the wrong path, well that path usualy leads to 6ft under or prison!

 

Alot of my old friends who never grew up are either dead or in prison, and quit a few have done both, been to prison came out and did the same thing and killed them selves, Im not gonna blame a plant for people killing themselves or selling their body's to get their fix!

 

every one can become some one, look at who we have for our president for the last 4 1/2 yrs!

 

Peace

Jim

[OG Fire Beaster]

Phaq

 

I agree with you for the most part. The exception is that it is a documented fact that LEO targets minorities for drug crimes. Usage rates are nearly identical, arrest and incarceration rates are not.

[Celliach]

ChristineW, you do see the difference between this statement...

"You don't put people in prision for a plant".

 

and this statement, right?

yes its cut and dry you should not be putting people in jail that do no harm to others

They aren't the same thing.

[phaquetoo]

Phaq

 

I agree with you for the most part. The exception is that it is a documented fact that LEO targets minorities for drug crimes. Usage rates are nearly identical, arrest and incarceration rates are not.

well in that case it comes down to who has the $$$ to get out of the trouble, and I do believe the war on drugs during the reagan aka ollie north war, the gov turning a blind eye to drugs heading to L,A to fund the war between the sandanista's and the other group, again that was one of our wars to take one dictator out and put another in, they couldnt get congress to support it  so they turned to drug dealing in the large city, now where do most minoritys live? in the city's, at one time detroit was all white folks, other folks moved there for the work that was there, and things were going well, untill modern machinery eliminated alot of jobs, or you needed special schooling to make these lines run!

 

Im pos as many minority's and non minoritys are pretty close to equal when it comes to drug use, sales and b&e's  it is not a race thing when it comes to commiting the crimes!

 

Ive said this before, and I will say it again, anytime I found myself in jail, I was the only  guilty one in there, every one else claimed they were inocent, I sure hope that is not part of the equazion you found lol!

 

I hear ya though, all we can hope is one day we realy are all treated equal, it was only in the mid 1900's that woman and blacks got there right to vote, and that happened because of people who believed in what they were doing and they got it done with followers, alot of people died just so their children could have a better life,

 

But while we are at it, how much dif is there in divorce rates, now there may be more cuacasions getting divorced, but im willing to bet it is because the minoritys dont get married as much, but they have more babys, and their daddy's split and dont help pay or raise them children, wouldnt you think that makes a difference, Ive been divorced 3 times. Ive only made one child though and he had his mom and dad in his life, and I was paying alot more child support than alot of people I knew at some of the places ive worked in detroit making the same amount of money as the guy next to me. and not becuase I wanted to, they have a formula they use at the friend of the court, it goes by what both the man and woman make and what it is, is what it is, some choose not to use the f..o.c sure I would have liked that but I still would have taken care of my son, I know it cost more than 10 bucks a week to raise a kid!  yea people with the same amount of children as me were paying 5 or 10 bucks a wk making the same as me and I was paying 169.00 per wk!  I would have to think that makes a big difference also!

 

That is just my opinion!

 

Peace

Jim

[OG Fire Beaster]

I agree that a stable family environment is very important in the raising of children. A stable family can be many things, even in divorce and unwed situations.

[phaquetoo]

I agree that a stable family environment is very important in the raising of children. A stable family can be many things, even in divorce and unwed situations.

my woman and her 2 kids(i consider them mine) have a stable living situation, they are nurtured and taught right from wrong, but we all know teen agers are gonna mess up now and than and some more then others, lmao, oh man, I have not regrets of becoming a step dad to my daughter and young son here, and they are good kids,,I Think the best way to raise kids is not to forget what it was like when you were their age and go from there, I made plenty of stupid mistakes when I was young, it didnt make me a bad person, alot of good people do stupid things!

 

Peace

Jim

[Highlander]

my woman and her 2 kids(i consider them mine) have a stable living situation, they are nurtured and taught right from wrong, but we all know teen agers are gonna mess up now and than and some more then others, lmao, oh man, I have not regrets of becoming a step dad to my daughter and young son here, and they are good kids,,I Think the best way to raise kids is not to forget what it was like when you were their age and go from there, I made plenty of stupid mistakes when I was young, it didnt make me a bad person, alot of good people do stupid things!

 

Peace

Jim

 

Yep.  Keep them from overly hurting themselves and let them learn from there.

[pergamum362]

Portugal?