Can An Unregistered Patient Have A Caregiver That Is Protected By Section 8?

[Wild Bill]

Greg, at risk of seeming nosy, have you ever personally been charged with a crime and gone in front of a judge?

 

 

Yes.

 

 

Based on your experience do you honestly believe that there is a judge in this state who would listen to an argument such as you would present? I'm not saying that it is a poor argument per se, but it seems to me that the chances of it being given any credence by anyone in our legal establishment is slim to none. They all seem too biased and entrenched in the 'dangerous drug' mentality.

[GregS]

Perhaps you should read it for the first time then.  Do you note where it talks about 'proving' ALL OVER THE DOCUMENT?  Yet you still demand to be shown where section 8 is show cause?

 

There is a difference between cutting and pasting and acutally reading and UNDERSTANDING what is being said.

 

But you have made your point and I think everyone can clearly see what your understanding of this issue is.

 

Dr. Bob

Gee. But for the insult, rhetorical question, a repetitive statement regarding a requirement to show cause, and another insult, thank you for that

[GregS]

 

Based on your experience do you honestly believe that there is a judge in this state who would listen to an argument such as you would present? I'm not saying that it is a poor argument per se, but it seems to me that the chances of it being given any credence by anyone in our legal establishment is slim to none. They all seem too biased and entrenched in the 'dangerous drug' mentality.

Sure I do.

[bobandtorey]

I've been to court and other legal venues Bob.

Great keep up the good work maybe we can meet in the court room someday soon there is a BIG one coming up

[+Malamute]

That is why Greg is unwilling to risk himself.  He wants others thrown on the sword so he can try to prove his hypothesis, which is obtuse and not anchored in reality. It is anchored in only hypothesis and generalities which completely avoids the specific details from which a defendant will be working from and exactly what proof a defendant will need and have to prove in a court room toa judge to satisy said elements.

 

Greg uses terms like "will" and "does", when he shoul dbe using terms like "might" and "maybe".

 

:-)

[GregS]

Here is a pretty good criminal procedure flow chart:

 

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/23573292/Criminal-Process-Flow-Chart

 

You would schedule your pretrial motion to dismiss between the Circuit Court (or per this document, Court of Common Pleas) arraignment and trial.

 

I am not familiar with how to post it in its entire text. If someone does, will you please?

Edited July 26, 2013 by GregS

[GregS]

Great keep up the good work maybe we can meet in the court room someday soon there is a BIG one coming up

I'll look forward to that Bob.

[bobandtorey]

i use those words like maybe , could , should, when people ask me things about the Law  that we have or had i say it may work is some towns and some city's 

or you could get Lucky as we did

[GregS]

That is why Greg is unwilling to risk himself.  He wants others thrown on the sword so he can try to prove his hypothesis, which is obtuse and not anchored in reality. It is anchored in only hypothesis and generalities which completely avoids the specific details from which a defendant will be working from and exactly what proof a defendant will need and have to prove in a court room toa judge to satisy said elements.

 

Greg uses terms like "will" and "does", when he shoul dbe using terms like "might" and "maybe".

 

:-)

Will you give me some examples?

 

I have laid out lotsa facts to support my hypotheses; almost all of them quite specific and completely contrary to your claim, which is a red herring fallacy.

Edited July 26, 2013 by GregS

[GregS]

 

Based on your experience do you honestly believe that there is a judge in this state who would listen to an argument such as you would present? I'm not saying that it is a poor argument per se, but it seems to me that the chances of it being given any credence by anyone in our legal establishment is slim to none. They all seem too biased and entrenched in the 'dangerous drug' mentality.

I am aware of six or seven cases that have been dismissed under sec. 8. Do you think there are cases we have not heard about that have?

Edited July 26, 2013 by GregS

[GregS]

What's more is that I think we can offer, say, a fifty dollar commission for every fund premium sold by anyone to any patient or caregiver who is duly registered or contracted.

Edited July 26, 2013 by GregS

[Dr. Bob]

I am aware of six or seven cases that have been dismissed under sec. 8. Do you think there are cases we have not heard about that have?

Were ANY of them unregistered caregivers?  I think not.  To simply say there have been successful section 8 defenses is nothing new, I have been part of several of them and have more in the pipe.

 

Again just because you automatically claim someone else's reasoning is flawed (though I doubt you would recognize a valid argument if it bit you) does nothing to support your own lack of a logical plan.  You believe in what you propose- fine, I have ten patients for you willing to sign your contract if you will 'sell' them 2.5 ounces apiece, at the same time, in the confrence room of the Clare Co.

Sheriff's department. 

 

Dr. Bob

[bobandtorey]

What's more is that I think we can offer, say, a fifty dollar commission for every fund premium sold by anyone to any patient or caregiver who is duly registered or contracted.

$$50 bucks 

i am all in i don't care what i must do i can use that money

[GregS]

Were ANY of them unregistered caregivers?  I think not.  To simply say there have been successful section 8 defenses is nothing new, I have been part of several of them and have more in the pipe.

 

Again just because you automatically claim someone else's reasoning is flawed (though I doubt you would recognize a valid argument if it bit you) does nothing to support your own lack of a logical plan.  You believe in what you propose- fine, I have ten patients for you willing to sign your contract if you will 'sell' them 2.5 ounces apiece, at the same time, in the confrence room of the Clare Co.

Sheriff's department. 

 

Dr. Bob

I am willing enough to do that without police involvement. Otherwise it is simply grandstanding and useless theater. You know what those are.

 

I can arrange to meet any or all of your patients at a bank.

 

If either party is a customer at that bank, notary services are free.

 

If it is their bank I can sell them a bunch.

 

The required amount is one pound.

 

The pound will cost only three thousand dollars. That is a fair enough price.

 

I would begin to grow it immediately.

 

And we will laugh.

 

Ha ha ha.

 

Do you know the Wiffenpoof Song Townsend?

Edited July 26, 2013 by GregS

[Dr. Bob]

The contracts only work without police involvement.   that is because it is illegal and not worth the paper it is written on

 

I can arrange to meet any or all of your patients at a bank.

 

If either party is a customer at that bank, notary services are free.

 

If it is their bank I can sell them a bunch.

 

The required amount is one pound.

 

The pound will cost only three thousand dollars. That is a fair enough price.

 

I would begin to grow it immediately.

 

And we will laugh.

perhaps if you re-read the above quote you might find something you overlooked.  I don't know, just a feeling I have there might be a tidbit of information there.

 

Dr. Bob

[GregS]

Let me put it this way then. I am only willing enough to do that without police involvement. I am not suggesting anyone do otherwise. In fact, I recommend they do. Otherwise it is little more than gratuitous narcissistic grandstanding and useless theater.

Edited July 26, 2013 by GregS

[GregS]

Your little engine that couldn't is off the rails.

[GregS]

You can have your patients meet me at any of my bank branches in Anywhere, Michigan. All they need are the supporting docucments, to include a solid physician's statement or a registry card, proper identification, and three thousand dollars each-in cash. Large bills are okay.

Edited July 27, 2013 by GregS

[SFC]

Gregs threads are like the movie Groundhog say.  Pity...

[GregS]

Gregs threads are like the movie Groundhog say.  Pity...

Is that the best you can do? I've always considered you an intelligent and articulate guy. I don't see any of that here

 

Apparently Townsend and a few others did not get it the first, or second, or third time around, and insisted that I restate some points. I'm happy to oblige.

Edited July 26, 2013 by GregS

[imiubu]

Alright... I am going to tell you Greg, I certainly admire your tenacity.

BUT...

I heard the words straight from the horses mouth so to speak and to infer that CL said that the contracts you presented would help is misleading.

He said that those documents 'may not hurt' the case. I do not recall him ever saying in fact that they would indeed help.

This is all very stressful and I suggested to you to make a summary of your points then leave it at that. OR to create a 'help' document or w/e about

the court process from the time of a persons arrest forward, and what is to be expected.  I feel that would be very helpful to those who may find themselves in that position.

Many have not ever been inside a court room let alone been arrested, charged and dragged through our justice system. 

I would like to see you channel your extensive energies into something that would be of greater benefit to the entire community than this

constant round and round that has become of these threads.

 

Also the constant insults and general snarkiness from yourself and other posters here do not have a positive affect upon those readers who are interested in this subject.

 

As I have told you before, I do appreciate your determination and belief that the Sec 8 did need discussion. I believe it did but has now run the gambit as I said b4.

I feel that now you are just bumping your own threads and being generally irritating on purpose Sorry to say.

 

I get totally turned off by those who post with an air of superiority and I wish it would stop.

That is all of you that do so.. you know who you are and if the shoe fits then wear it.

 

Thanks, I am finished with this thread.

[GregS]

Alright... I am going to tell you Greg, I certainly admire your tenacity.

BUT...

I heard the words straight from the horses mouth so to speak and to infer that CL said that the contracts you presented would help is misleading.

He said that those documents 'may not hurt' the case. I do not recall him ever saying in fact that they would indeed help.

This is all very stressful and I suggested to you to make a summary of your points then leave it at that. OR to create a 'help' document or w/e about

the court process from the time of a persons arrest forward, and what is to be expected.  I feel that would be very helpful to those who may find themselves in that position.

Many have not ever been inside a court room let alone been arrested, charged and dragged through our justice system. 

I would like to see you channel your extensive energies into something that would be of greater benefit to the entire community than this

constant round and round that has become of these threads.

 

Also the constant insults and general snarkiness from yourself and other posters here do not have a positive affect upon those readers who are interested in this subject.

 

As I have told you before, I do appreciate your determination and belief that the Sec 8 did need discussion. I believe it did but has now run the gambit as I said b4.

I feel that now you are just bumping your own threads and being generally irritating on purpose Sorry to say.

 

I get totally turned off by those who post with an air of superiority and I wish it would stop.

That is all of you that do so.. you know who you are and if the shoe fits then wear it.

 

Thanks, I am finished with this thread.

I have Cav's statement on the record. I will produce it only without childish demands, and only with his authorization.

 

I've been pretty much avoiding insults and untoward comments, and it's been working pretty well. I will try to rein in better what you find offensive. I respect your opinion.

 

A summary of my points is premature until we have some final questions answered.

Edited July 27, 2013 by GregS

[greenleaf]

No.  If you want protection, abide by the law.

 

If you have a crafty lawyer or activist judge, he might be able to twist the law to fit your meaning.

 

Why go through all of that for $170?  Playing by the rules is cheaper.

[phaquetoo]

its getting very old, thread after thread same ole s h i t, beachen and moaning, I say drop it an every one agree to disagree and lets move on to fixing this problem, not adding more to the problem, raising money for people doing things that are now ilegal does Not look good on any of us, I got certed so as not to break the law any longer, Ive spent most of my life skirting the law, im legal now, and im gonna follow the law. good luck finding some one to do as suggested, I would not be a part of getting an unregistered c.g in trouble, yea I can purchase my mm from any one as a pt, but the person providing it to me is the one going to get into trouble, unless they supply me with oil or medibles, than I guess we will both be in deep doo doo!

 

Its realy getting old, if people spent as much time trying to stay legal we would be better off!

 

Peace

Jim

[GregS]

its getting very old, thread after thread same ole s h i t, beachen and moaning, I say drop it an every one agree to disagree and lets move on to fixing this problem, not adding more to the problem, raising money for people doing things that are now ilegal does Not look good on any of us, I got certed so as not to break the law any longer, Ive spent most of my life skirting the law, im legal now, and im gonna follow the law. good luck finding some one to do as suggested, I would not be a part of getting an unregistered c.g in trouble, yea I can purchase my mm from any one as a pt, but the person providing it to me is the one going to get into trouble, unless they supply me with oil or medibles, than I guess we will both be in deep doo doo!

 

Its realy getting old, if people spent as much time trying to stay legal we would be better off!

 

Peace

Jim

Great Jim. Please. By all means enjoy your sec. 4 protections. I have not suggested anyone not do that. It may not be, however, acceptable for those of us with heart disease who have been told by our cardiologists not to smoke. Besides. I like pumpkin pie with a great cup of coffee. Sec. 4 does not protect me in that under any circumstance.

 

We're just waiting on a few authoritative answers. At that point the conversation should be finished.

 

Something else that comes to mind is that this might be a pretty good foil against retail regulated and taxed dispensaries. Maybe we can give 4271 the boot it deserves.

Edited July 27, 2013 by GregS