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in vivo

The Entourage: One Of The Many Missing Pieces To The Puzzle

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Many terpenes can readily cross the blood-brain barrier and elicit a response through olfactory senses. We know what smells "nice" to us, but I'd wager that beyond any subjective interpretation along those lines, or an association from past experience, would be as far as that could take you. I struggle to see how smelling the terpenes will provide insight into the cannabinoids. I like the smell of cannatonic #4. I can't place it. I think it smells like a power skunk I had back in the day. I enjoyed the power skunk, the cannatonic 4 isn't really my thing.

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 From the first page. Please try and do some research. I don't mind helping, but I'm trying to learn too.

 

In contrast with other senses, olfactory information can bypass the thalamus and directly link with areas of the brain involved in emotion and memory such as the amygdala, frontal cortex, hypothalamus, and hippocampus (Kandal et al., 2000). Furthermore due to their lipophilic nature terpenoids are able to pass the blood brain barrier (BBB) and interact directly with the brain. Both mechanisms are important because odorous terpenoids can have a direct pharmacological action in the brain, such as interaction with a neural receptor, and a psychological component through the olfactory system (Heuberger, 2010).

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Many terpenes can readily cross the blood-brain barrier and elicit a response through olfactory senses. We know what smells "nice" to us, but I'd wager that beyond any subjective interpretation along those lines, or an association from past experience, would be as far as that could take you. I struggle to see how smelling the terpenes will provide insight into the cannabinoids. I like the smell of cannatonic #4. I can't place it. I think it smells like a power skunk I had back in the day. I enjoyed the power skunk, the cannatonic 4 isn't really my thing.

 

 

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Are you suggesting that cannabinoids are so volatile that you they can elicit effects simply via olfactory? I don't believe that's the case. The type of terpene makes a difference. If you'd like to provide some evidence other than your personal experience, I'd be very interested in seeing it.

Edited by in vivo

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It's like this myan, you like sniff the weed and when its really fresh and like really good quality smoke, you can close your eyes and like WOW, fell the smell going through your nose and straight through your brain. Its crazy good. Its like messages turning you on and tuning you in, letting you know just the right herb to use at that moment. Eating mango's while smoking herb, well, that's maybe too deep for some, but google knows all about it. Pro extractors have added various terpenes, ones found in cannabis, to their oil, for the exact same reasons. the whole map can be assembled on the bench.

 I was taught to always take the time to smell my consumables before consuming them. like the pineapples at the market, and cantaloupes on the road side. Our brains know when we need something, and when we don't.  

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I've experimented quite a bit with the terpenes from essential oils. I didn't buy into aroma therapy at all up until I got into this research. I think I commented somewhere in here that I wonder if the "high" so many experience from nature is based on the terpenes they're smelling. I thought that after smelling the white pine and feeling 'awake', and immediately associating that with previous experiences. I'm not contesting that terpenes play a role, or that they elicit an effect by smelling them. 

 

I'm saying cannabinoids are more stable, and it takes more than smell to gain insight into them.

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I've experimented quite a bit with the terpenes from essential oils. I didn't buy into aroma therapy at all up until I got into this research. I think I commented somewhere in here that I wonder if the "high" so many experience from nature is based on the terpenes they're smelling. I thought that after smelling the white pine and feeling 'awake', and immediately associating that with previous experiences. I'm not contesting that terpenes play a role, or that they elicit an effect by smelling them. 

 

I'm saying cannabinoids are more stable, and it takes more than smell to gain insight into them.

Cannabinoids are always leaving the plant.

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Tell me, what does CBD smell like? CBG? CBC? delta8 vs delta9? Your premise is unfounded. Please don't muck up the this thread unless you're willing to provide citations for your claims. This is about learning. I learn nothing from your coy condescension. If it were in fact true there would be some science behind it at this point. I don't doubt that there is.  

 

(There's a few posts that look like I might be responding to Zap, this being one of them, while my responses are directed at Rez.)

Edited by in vivo

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Do you think that those cannabinoids do not have a smell, or is it just difficult or impossible to describe? Also, what if the person is relieved by the terpenes themselves, i.e. limonene or pinene, and can easily distinguish those strains that contain what they need simply by smell?

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Cannabinoids are always leaving the plant.

 

Cannabinoids are constantly degrading. That doesn't mean they're as volatile as other terpenoids.

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Cannabinoids are constantly degrading. That doesn't mean they're as volatile as other terpenoids.

How does a pig smell a truffle 2 feet under the soil? How does a dog smell cancer? How does a human smell cannabinoids?

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Oxford Study Shows Caryophyllene (terpene) as a Dietary Cannabinoid

 

What does this mean? Cannabis usually contains a significant amount of a terpene called beta-caryophyllenee (BCP), which contributes to the aroma and flavor of cannabis. The study shows that this terpene, also found in other legal herbs, spices and food plants, activates the CB2 receptor and acts as a non-psychoactive anti-inflammatory. Because it binds to a cannabinoid receptor, it is considered a cannabinoid. WOW!

Question: Does non-psychoactive BCP compete with psychoactive compounds for receptor binding?; Can high BCP content reduce the psychoactive effects of cannabis?

 

 

Introduction to Cannabis Aroma and Flavor

The aroma and flavor of cannabis is manipulated by selective breeding for the biosynthesis of various classes of compounds. These include terpenes, flavonoids, alkanes and esters. Aroma and flavor molecules are generally volatile and posses lower boiling points than cannabinoids, thus they are released during vaporization processes.

Let's take a look at a class of molecules known as a terpenes, which contribute to give cannabis its unique bouquet and flavor. Some terpenes are said to modulate the physiological and psychoactive effects of cannabis. Additional research is needed into how these legal compounds participate in providing medicinal properties to marijuana.  Unfortunately, unjust Schedule I classification makes it illegal to extract perfectly legal compounds from cannabis.

Cannabis-Science recognizes that many terpenes in the botanical world exhibit medicinal properties and that a great number of modern pharmaceuticals were derived from this fact. Many cannabinoids are considered terpenes since they contain 'terpene-pieces' (moieties) assembled by the plant. Often, terpenes in the plant kingdom serve as evolutionary defense mechanisms to ward off predators and pathogenic microbes such as fungi and bacteria.

TERPENES

Terpenes (isoprenoids) are small molecules that consist of repeating units of a compound called isoprene. Terpenes play many important roles in the plant kingdom from deterring insect predation, protection from environmental stresses and as chemical raw materials for more complex molecules, like cannabinoids. Many plant terpenes act synergistically with other terpenes and some serve to either catalyze or inhibit formation of other compounds within a plant. Understanding the role of certain terpenes will allow scientists to manipulate cannabinoids to desired ratios, for example.

isoprene.gif

Isoprene is classified as an alkene. Alkenes are molecules with double bonds. Isoprene has 2.

Terpenes are made by many types of plants and are often the components of "essential oils". They are often times the building blocks to make more complex plant molecules, such as in certain hormones, vitamins (Vitamin A), pigments, sterols and cannabinoids. Others terpenes have antimicrobial properties, including some found in cannabis. Many of terpenes act as natural defense mechanisms against insects as resins are often sticky (i.e. amber, sap), while other terpenes such as limonene induce 'relaxation' and have their own unique pharmacology. Because of this diversity in the many functions of terpenes, whole cannabis (a.k.a. poly-pharmaceutical cannabis) has a higher therapeutic index than single-component THC (Marinol). This means, and medical marjuana patients affirm, that raw cannabis is superior in treating various ailments versus THC alone.

There are over 120 kinds of terpenes in cannabis, some only in trace amounts with others in double-digit percentage. Being able to measure these volatile compounds before and after a breeding experiment will offer the cannabis scientist endless opportunities for developing new flavors by basing breeding decisions on real analytical data.

More on Terpenes: Glossary and here.

CITRAL A & B Geranial/Neral/Lemonal. These are terpenoid compounds that contribute lemony scents to sinse. Check out wiki's definition w/ molecular structure.

 

CANNABIS TAXONOMY

The cannabis scientist should not only consider the genus Cannabis, but the entire botanical family Cannabaceae (aka Cannabidacea), which also contains the genus Humulus that includes the vine called hops. Understanding the terpene profile and biosynthesis in Humulus may provide cannabis breeders with insight regarding flavor/aroma profile manipulation.

 

 

Humulus (Hops, as in Hoppy India Pale Ale) is the only other genus besides Cannabis that is found in the family Cannabaceae; the two are genetically similar. Go to your local Homebrew Supplier and get an ounce of hops. A skunky variety such as Saaz will do. Compare the smell and physical similarities of the two Cannabaceae products. Smell familiar? Both have glandular trichomes that exude terpenoid-rich resin. Many of these resins not only add flavor to beer, but their orginal intent was to prevent spoilage via antimicrobial activity. Side-by-side the GC chromatograms from each plant would have many similarities (peaks).

Cannabis and Hops each contain some of the same essential oils. For example, each has significant amounts of oils called myrcene and caryophyllene which contribute to their characteristic smells. They are both aromatic terpenes that contribute to the spicy smell in both flowers. Limonene, also present in Cannabaceae, is an oil with citrusy notes, and it happens to also be found in citrus fruits. Perhaps there lies utility in this genetic similarity for developing new flavor/aroma lineage. Attempts to cross-breed and graft the two species have failed. But today, cannabis scientists can influence the biosynthesis of certain compounds with advanced genetic technology. Understanding how the Humulus vine is influenced may provide insight into the nature of cannabis, and vice versa.

 

http://cannabis-science.com/aroma_flavor.html

 

another related link  http://www.hightimes.com/read/talking-terpenes

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I don't think cannabinoids have much of a smell. Synthetics might not be a good example, but they're very similar, and they don't have much of a smell. Dry ice extractions might be another example. Or any extraction really that has been cleaned up a couple times with EtOH, or is low in terpenes.

 

I think our olfactory senses have some interesting characteristics in terms of memory storage. Like the way a smell can remind you of a memory. Terpenes have their own value. Most flowers are high in THC. Similar combinations or individual terpenes with THC seem likely to elicit similar responses. So, if you've had something in the past that you liked, I wouldn't doubt if your body could associate a scent with old memories. I think there are some terpenes like linalool that I may be able to identify from a few strains, but I didn't get them all tested, so I'm still not sure.

Edited by in vivo

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I truly think it is much simpler than this. A patient that has been using cannabis for many years, even before the law passed, has tried dozens, or even hundreds of different strains. They have no idea what terpenes or cannabinoids are contained within, but they know if it works or not. Then they just remember the smells, and that it worked. Perhaps they try one that smells similar and it works again. That is a pattern that develops reliably for many people over time. Very basic, and no actual knowledge of the terpenes or mechanisms that are involved is necessary, or possibly even desired.

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grassmatch,

 

CB1 and CB2 form function heteromers. What that means is that activation of one automatically "turns down" the other. Beta-caryophyllene is a full CB2 agonist. I'd imagine that might mean it has a higher affinity for CB2 than THC, but that's not necessarily the case I guess. Activation of CB2 then might inhibit THC from activating CB1. This might not be such a bad thing for many types of pain.  

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In Vivo please keep the posts coming. I am old and stupid but can understand your posts,and appreciate you sharing them. Smell is a powerful sense,and in my opinion and experimenting,it works.

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