The Entourage: One Of The Many Missing Pieces To The Puzzle

[in vivo]

Isn't CBC the precursor to THC, CBD, and CBG?

 

Olivetolic acid --> CBGA --> CBDA, CBG, THCA, CBCA (but not THCV/CBDV)

 

Olivetolic acid is where it's at. It would be interesting to experiment with ways of increasing it.

 

Here's a good paper on this:

Introduction to secondary metabolism in cannabis

Edited March 6, 2014 by in vivo

[earthling]

This is also not true. If patients were to wait on science to tell them how to find relief with cannabis, they would be lost down a rabbit hole of unsubstantiated and incomplete, albeit fascinating, scientific papers. No relief in that, but lots of relief in old wives tales, so to speak.

 

I may be wrong on this. Perhaps reading these papers has really led a large number of patients to better results with their cannabis therapy. But I don't think so.

 

I do love the papers, and find them fascinating, especially when they echo something that I have heard in an anecdotal report, or an old wives tale. That makes me think the paper might be correct.

 

 

I agree that science has a lot of catching up to do in regard to just how broad a spectrum of ailments cannabis is effective in treating, and the mechanisms by which it achieves relief.  My point is that through analysis of the research and further experimentation we can more quickly and easily couple patients with the strains/extracts that specifically suit their unique needs.

 

The continued confirmation of cannabis remedies through science is certainly fascinating and fulfilling to experience, we are lucky to witness it.  It is, however, important to note the countless folk remedies that have fallen by the wayside, and even continue in use in modern times, regardless of readily available evidence showing their ineffectiveness.  That said, I do encourage people to use whatever they derive benefit from, regardless of what data from a clinical, double blind, study may show, when a patient believes what they are taking will help, the placebo effect takes hold and alleviates part of their discomfort.  Placebo relief is still relief.

 

Promotion of folk remedies can have dire pitfalls with life threatening consequences.  There are suffering people forestalling effective treatments backed up by evidence, for those they choose to believe may work.  Frequently these folk remedies are much less threatening than the clinical treatments.  Some folk remedies have true therapeutic value, some provide benefit only through placebo, while others may exacerbate the patient's symptoms (or even provide more symptoms for the patient to deal with).  We cannot know which is which without experimentation and scientific analysis.  Therefore, when someone's life and/or wellbeing is at stake, it is important to go with what is understood and repeatable, if such an option exists.  This is why it is important to thoroughly understand how and why different cannabis chemotypes effect symptoms and patients differently.

 

edit:  I have completed a report on the subjective effects of Sour OG with time stamps, I'll write it up and post it tommorow.

 

edit 3: a lot has occurred in this thread since I began writing my response and I feel it may no longer be relevant, I hope it doesn't derail this thread.

Edited March 7, 2014 by earthling

[in vivo]

I'd like any input I can get on this. I'm trying to draw up a strain review document. This is a rough draft. It's basically just the leafly strain review. I've been using a different one for topical trials, so it doesn't take into account for strains, it's a useful pain assessment document and can be found here: Patient Comfort Assessment Guide

 

I'd like to meld the one above to the one below. I'm a little concerned it'll be too long though. 

 

 

Strain Review

 

Strain name:_________________________ Date:____________

 

Please circle the method of consumption being reviewed:    Smoked    Vaporized      Oral

 

What time of day do you think this strain is most suitable?   Day      Night    Both

 

Please circle the effects that best describe this strain:

 

Anxious         Body Load      Creative    Dizzy    Dry Eyes   Dry Mouth     Energetic     Euphoric     Focused    Giggly     Happy

 

Headache      Heavy      Hungry     Relaxed    Sedated   Sleepy    Talkative    Tingly    Uplifted      Paranoid

 

Other:____________________________________________________________

 

 

Please circle any aromas you may associate that you may associate with this strain:

 

Sweet

Berry   Blueberry   Strawberry   Grape     Citrus  Orange   Lime   Grapefruit   Lemon   Tropical  Pineapple  

 

Mango    Apple  Pear  Peach  Apricot  Plum    Flowery  Lavender  Rose  Violet  Honey

 

Earthy

Pungent  Skunky   Blue Cheese   Cheese  Saw Dust    Pine  Tea   Tobacco   Nutty  Vanilla  Chestnut   Coffee

 

Chemical Tar  Ammonia  Diesel  Menthol   Spicy/Herbal: Sage  Mint  Pepper

 

Other: ______________________________________________________________

 

 

 

Short Description

____________________________________________________________________________________

____________________________________________________________________________________

____________________________________________________________________________________

Edited March 13, 2014 by in vivo

[in vivo]

Can you think of any effects to add?

Edited March 12, 2014 by in vivo

[Restorium2]

Expectorant

[earthling]

Yesterday I smoked 500mg of ground Sour OG flower material taking continuous notes and time notations concerning the effects I subjectively perceived.  No objective measurements were made during the process besides the initial weight of the flower material and time notations.

Previously in the day I had my normal breakfast after ingesting my usual morning dose of 90mg Caffeine and 130mg L-Theanine.  I had been dealing with some minor constipation the previous few days, so I added two cups of coffee to my normal routine, after breakfast, to help things move along.  An unweighed bowl of Hindu Kush was smoked throughout the morning until about 12:30pm, while the last cup of coffee was finished around 1:00pm.  It should also be noted I deal with intermittent abdominal cramping and bloating on most days.

Immediately prior to the reporting period I consumed my normal afternoon dose of 40mg Caffeine and 60mg L-Theanine along with a dinner consisting of a grilled ham and cheese sandwich and a salad.

 

500mg Sour OG weighed on seemingly accurate but cheap .001g accuracy scale, amounting to two fills of my pipe.  Each inhalation (inh. for the sake of brevity) of smoke was held for ten seconds unless otherwise noted.

5:00pm     Inh. 1 - After exhale warm wave felt over body subsiding within 30 seconds.  Face remains slightly warm.
5:02    Headspace feels more expansive, mind clearing.  Body feels heavier but movement seems more fluid.
5:05    Inh. 2 - Forgot to hold it in for 10sec.
5:07    Head continues to increase spaceous feeling.  Tendency to stare.  Body feels heavier.
5:09     Pulse can be felt under bottom of eyelids, also aware of heart movement.
5:10    Inh. 3 - While holding in the smoke I feel a slight warmth on my face as well as a slight mist of sweat.  Eyelids auto-adjust to half-mast.
5:12    Heaspace very spaceous
5:14    Abdominal cramping decreasing, feel motion under navel, bloating shifts from left to right
5:15    Heaspace clearing, easier to focus and stay on task.
5:16    Inh. 4 - Spaceyness increase to previous state, less easy to focus and direct thoughts.
5:18    Headspace clearing, easier to fully open eyes.
5:19    Perception of non moving body parts very low.
5:20    Breathing very easy, lungs feel clear and open.
5:21    Abdominal cramping pain almost completely gone, bloated feeling continues.
5:22    Inh. 5 - Attempt to finish bowl resulted in los of smoke, remainder held for 10sec.  Face feels warm with slight sweat fealing.  Momentarily felt pulse in back of scalp.  Bloated feeling decreases slightly.
5:24    Increase in humore low level smile on face without effort.
5:27    Inh. 6 - Forget to hold.  Face warmth again and slight sweat again.  Unbuttoning flannel
5:29    Headspace clearing, slight smile gone, yawn.
5:30    Warmth felt inside back of skull.  Bloat decreasing and shifted, even on both sides of abdomen.
5:31    Headspace feeling more sluggish, eyelids heavy, eyes feel warm.
5:32    Inh. 7 - Heart perceived for a few seconds.
5:34    Yawn.  Feeling tired.
5:36    Slightly cold, buttoning flannel.
5:37    Yawn.  Inh. 8 -
5:38    Reduced perception of lower face and extremeties.  Cramping almost gone, bloating felt on right side of abdomen.
5:39    Eyes warm.  Perception of self and surrounding in 'observer mode,' just taking in my surroundings.  Normally anxiety inducing thoughts are less anxiogenic.
5:41    Yawn.  Pressure felt in front of face above eyebrows, possibly the hat I'm wearing.  Sinus can be felt draining relieving sinus pressure.
5:43    Head sluggish.  Sinus drain may be slowing.
5:44    Inh. 9 - Pressure felt inside top area of my head. Yawwwn.
5:45    Head less sluggish but very spaceous.
5:47    Sluggish and spacey. Yawn.  Bloating very slight now.
5:48    Whats lest of the abdominal cramp pain is gone.  Body feels very at ease, zero pain (which is nice).
5:49    Upon 'early morning' type stretch tight muscle felt, stretching posture held, tension subsides.  GI motion felt, posture released, now leaning back in chair.
5:51    Inh. 10 - Feeling chilled in general, but warmth on face returns during hold of Inh.
5:54    Eyes easier to keep open.  Head feels less sluggish, but still spaceious.
5:55    Very slight abdominal cramping felt.
5:57    Cramping gone, bloating persists on right side.
5:58    Bloating subsiding.
6:00    Feel jolly, slight smile.
6:01    Inh. 11 - Final inh.  Wave of warmth on face and scalp, persists on eyes.
6:02    Negligable perception of limbs not in motion.
6:03    Slight sweat on forhead.
6:06    Very spacey, staring.
6:08    Headspace clearing, tired, eyes dry, minor bloat right side.
6:13    Motion felt in abdomen.  Bloating subsiding, body feels heavy but ver comfortable.
6:16    Slight muscle pain rib cage left.
6:17    Less tired, eyelids remain heavy.
6:18    Colors appear more warm/vivid, reflections more intense.
6:19    Persistent slight grin, good humor, body pain free, slight right bloat.
6:21    Warmth felt under skin of entire body.
6:23    Head spacey but clear.  Blank expression on face, tend to stare.
6:24    Feel slight chill in extremeties.  Noting us use of unnecessary words impeding fluid note taking.
6:27    Feeling more tired. Body heavy, no pain, slight bloat right side.
6:30    Very relaxed, slightly disconnected from body.
6:32    Thirsty.  
6:36    Acquire glass of tap water. Movement fluid, body heavy.
6:37    Pressure felt in top of head.
6:41    Good mood, eyelids heavy, feel good.
6:44    Head clear but spaceous, slightly tired, slight right side bloating, tendency to stare.
6:51    Increase in tiredness, decrease in spaceous feeling in brain.
6:55    Tiredness decreasing, body pain free, slight balanced abdominal bloating.

 

[in vivo]

Thanks for the review! Though it's more thorough than I could have ever imagined, I'm not sure what to draw from it. I'm glad we put together this review form. Hopefully it will help in deciphering effects.    

 

For anyone interested I posted a generalized strain review form on scribd that can be viewed/downloaded. There are a couple of us that are going to ask our patients to fill these out on various strains. Over time I'm hoping that these types of reviews that coincide with known ratios of cannabinoids and terpenes may provide valuable insight. It'd be great if others joined the party. I think we can accomplish much more, in a shorter period of time, by working together.

 

Even if you're not interested in known ratios, it might not be a bad idea for caregivers to print something like this off to use, and have on record.

 

I'm not certain that the right questions are being asked in this review form. There are some much more insightful pain assessment logs and forms that can be found online, that I've used in the past. One is linked on the previous page. They come across as quite the chore, and I've found that most patients aren't too keen on them. With that in mind I'm trying to keep this as short and sweet as possible, but it will likely change over time.

Edited March 8, 2014 by in vivo

[in vivo]

There appears to be some confusion about some of the characteristics of cannabinoids. This is likely in large part due to my failure to properly explain the relevance of some of the graphics on the first page. I'll go through and attempt to work on that. The confusion I'm referring to is the idea that a person might be able to boil a concentrate that's high in delta9 in order to acquire CBC and CBD. I apologize for being rude about it, I thought I was being heckled with.

 

There are three things that need to be considered in order for this to be thought about critically. One is the way in which these compounds synthesis and degrade. The second is the boiling points of these compounds, which is different for each, and is much different from boiling a concentrate at 400+ degrees (or whatever was cited). Third is chemotypes.

 

The first thing I'd like to point out is the way in which cannabinoids synthesis and degrade. This graphic shows secondary metabolism (where the cannabinoids come from) in the plant, it shows how cannabinoids degrade via exposure to air/light, decarboxylation, and metabolism in the body. What I'd like to point out is that the delta9 and CBD both break down into CBN. Delta9 can't break down into CBC or CBD.

 

 

I guess the next thing would be chemotypes and boiling point. Since we know that delta9 can't turn into anything other than CBN, we know that it's not likely that any strain or chemotype that's not already known to be high in CBD or CBC is likely to be a practical source for procuring those cannabinoids.

 

What can be done with this? If your concentrate has a high ratio of delta9 and CBC, you could potentially decarboxylize it in a very controlled way to convert the delta9 (157 boiling point) and CBD (160-180 boiling point) into a ratio high in CBN (185 boiling point), leaving the CBC (220 boiling point) intact with a higher ratio of CBN. Similar situation for a high ratio of delta9 and CBD. It could potentially become a higher ratio of CBD and CBN (but it would be more difficult given the possible 3 degree difference). There's not much more play than that without getting into chemistry, and I'm not sure how practical of an idea it is due to accuracy needed and losses of active cannabinoids throughout the process.

     

You can view the boiling points on the first page of this thread.

Edited March 8, 2014 by in vivo

[Restorium2]

There appears to be some confusion about some of the characteristics of cannabinoids. This is likely in large part due to my failure to properly explain the relevance of some of the graphics on the first page. I'll go through and attempt to work on that. The confusion I'm referring to is the idea that a person might be able to boil a concentrate that's high in delta9 in order to acquire CBC and CBD. I apologize for being rude about it, I thought I was being heckled with.

 

There are three things that need to be considered in order for this to be thought about critically. One is the way in which these compounds synthesis and degrade. The second is the boiling points of these compounds, which is different for each, and is much different from boiling a concentrate at 400+ degrees (or whatever was cited). Third is chemotypes.

 

The first thing I'd like to point out is the way in which cannabinoids synthesis and degrade. This graphic shows secondary metabolism (where the cannabinoids come from) in the plant, it shows how cannabinoids degrade via exposure to air/light, decarboxylation, and metabolism in the body. What I'd like to point out is that the delta9 and CBD both break down into CBN. Delta9 can't break down into CBC or CBD.

 

 

I guess the next thing would be chemotypes and boiling point. Since we know that delta9 can't turn into anything other than CBN, we know that it's not likely that any strain or chemotype that's not already known to be high in CBD or CBC is likely to be a practical source for procuring those cannabinoids.

 

What can be done with this? If your concentrate has a high ratio of delta nice and CBC, you could potentially decarboxylize it in a very controlled way to convert the delta9 (157 boiling point) and CBD (160-180 boiling point) into a ratio high in CBN (185 boiling point), leaving the CBC (220 boiling point) intact with a higher ratio of CBN. Similar situation for like a high ratio of delta9 and CBD could potentially become a higher ratio of CBD and CBN. There's not much more play than that without getting into chemistry, and I'm not sure how practical of an idea it is due to accuracy needed and losses of active cannabinoids throughout the process.

     

You can view the boiling points on the first page of this thread.

You can remove the THC. I wasn't attempting to say you can convert anything.

[in vivo]

I must have misinterpreted. When I read this:

 

When is the cat going to come out of the bag that you can take any cannabis oil and cook off the THC and have this CBD rich oil?

 

I assumed you meant conversion, and weren't implying that all chemotypes have the same amount, or even much CBD.

[Restorium2]

I must have misinterpreted. When I read this:

 

 

I assumed you meant conversion, and weren't implying that all chemotypes have the same amount, or even much CBD.

All you need is a well rounded oil with all the right parts, then taylor it to a patient or usage.

[in vivo]

That's what this thread is all about. Trying to correlate compounds and ratios to specific therapeutic value, or at the very least getting an idea for the differences between sativa or indica dominant hybrids. If we can get more people sharing profiles and strain reviews I think us layman have the potential to get out in front of Big Pharma in ways that extend beyond art/trial and error, and into more systematic and scientifically based approaches. You post the profile and review, and I'll gladly research the terpenes for you. That goes for anybody willing to add their piece to the puzzle.

[in vivo]

Terpenes are strongly inherited and little influenced by environmental factors and,

therefore, have been widely used as biochemical marker in chemosystematic studies to

characterize plant species, provenances, clones and hybrids. A wide variability in

terpenoids content in different strains of Cannabis have been reported (Mediavilla and

Steinemann, 1997; Novak et al., 2001; Hillig, 2004; Fischedick et al., 2010).

 

CONCLUSIONS

 

The main differences between terpene profiles of the evaluated strains belonging

to the two principal biotypes were that ‘mostly indica’ strains were characterized by

dominancy of β-myrcene, present in high relative contents, with limonene or α-pinene as

second most abundant terpenoid, while ‘mostly sativa’ strains were characterized by more

complex terpene profiles, with some strains having α-terpinolene or α-pinene as dominant

terpenoid, and some strains having β-myrcene as dominant terpenoid with α-terpinolene

or trans-β-ocimene as second most abundant terpenoid.

 

This wide variability in terpene composition can provide a potential tool for the

characterization of Cannabis biotypes, and warrant further researches in order to evaluate

the drug’s medical value and, at the same time, to select less susceptible chemotypes to

the attack of herbivores and diseases. More detailed studies on the variability in

monoterpenes and sesquiterpenes are needed. Breeding for specific terpenoids in plants is

a fascinating research topic; in fact, the various biological activities of these compounds

make the analysis of terpenoids a valuable tool for improving a considerable number of

traits in pharmaceutical and industrial cultivars of Cannabis.

 

Terpenoids analysis, combined with cannabinoids and flavonoids analyses, are

essential for the metabolic fingerprinting of pharmaceutical cultivars. Pharmaceutical

cultivars of the two principal biotypes may exhibit distinctive medicinal properties due to

significant differences in relative contents of terpenoids, thus the synergy between the

various secondary metabolites must be investigated in deeper details in the future in order

to better elucidate the phytocomplex of Cannabis and to allow selection of chemotypes

with specific medical effects.

 

Variations in Terpene Profiles of Different Strains of Cannabis sativa L.

 

I can't link it directly, but if you search Google Scholar you can get a free pdf.

[in vivo]

Lemon Skunk Review:

 

Method of consumption being reviewed: Smoked

 

The period of the day you use this strain the most: Evening

 

Please circle the effects that may best describe this strain:

 

Headache, Relief, Relaxed, Sedated, Sleepy, Soothing, Tired, Therapeutic, Heavy

 

Other:_________need to add heavy_______

 

Please circle any aromas that you may associate with this strain:

 

Sweet, Lemon, Pineapple

 

Other: _______a hint of astringent and bubblegum mixed with a pungent lemon/pineapple aroma_____________

 

I used to love this strain, bit it's a bit too much for me during the day as of late. I think it's good for pain relief, muscle relaxation, and sleep. It also smells and tastes amazing.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2014 by in vivo

[Norby]

Wow, Lemon Skunk is too much during the day?  That was too much for me during the day because of jitteriness and paranoia. This was also the strain that seemed to increase throbbing pain for me and others.  Which seeds did it come from?  DNA or greenhouse?  I'll be taking one down in about a week.  I'm excited to know it may be indica dom.  The last cut I had was from greenhouse and when I crossed it to white widow it took on the indica hi.  Even when I backcrossed to the lemon skunk the lemon75 all had heavy indica qualities.  I had to cut down the second ls seed because it looked too sativa.  Looked like it would've taken 111-13 weeks to finish and got way too tall.

[trichcycler]

I'm not sure of reviews, although I read them often, and even have made choices based on them. But at the end of the day every strain seems to produce differing results depending on grow room parameters like temps, air quality, humidity, nutrient supply, water quality, etc. End user chemotypes, diets, health, experience, affect every individual experience with cannabis. One that causes me Chinese eyes and uncontrollable laughter may provide a deep sleep to the next guy for example. The effect I get from a strain smoked one week after harvest is different than a two week sample. Harvesting a week or two later/earlier, dry room conditions, etc also affect my experience.

Some experienced breeders/growers have attempted to publish some standards for our craft, but are often not followed, evident by the questions, concerns, and issues arising daily in rooms. Grow ego's, finances, location, all play heavy in our grow standards indoors.  I've jumped on a hundred strains because of someone's reviews, and always found my review different than theirs. Sometimes more favorable, some not so much. I consider the reason to be the above mentioned conditions.  

 

How can we get past knowing that a "Lemon Skunk" will make some patients lethargic yet others are agitated by the "strain" ?  I see similar concerns with pharma drugs like antidepressants and analgesics, affecting each user differently, like hit or miss.

 

thank you so much for this treasure trove of information. Being in one spot its sure to be a resource lasting forever I hope.

[Restorium2]

I'm not sure of reviews, although I read them often, and even have made choices based on them. But at the end of the day every strain seems to produce differing results depending on grow room parameters like temps, air quality, humidity, nutrient supply, water quality, etc. End user chemotypes, diets, health, experience, affect every individual experience with cannabis. One that causes me Chinese eyes and uncontrollable laughter may provide a deep sleep to the next guy for example. The effect I get from a strain smoked one week after harvest is different than a two week sample. Harvesting a week or two later/earlier, dry room conditions, etc also affect my experience.

Some experienced breeders/growers have attempted to publish some standards for our craft, but are often not followed, evident by the questions, concerns, and issues arising daily in rooms. Grow ego's, finances, location, all play heavy in our grow standards indoors.  I've jumped on a hundred strains because of someone's reviews, and always found my review different than theirs. Sometimes more favorable, some not so much. I consider the reason to be the above mentioned conditions.  

 

How can we get past knowing that a "Lemon Skunk" will make some patients lethargic yet others are agitated by the "strain" ?  I see similar concerns with pharma drugs like antidepressants and analgesics, affecting each user differently, like hit or miss.

 

thank you so much for this treasure trove of information. Being in one spot its sure to be a resource lasting forever I hope.

I agree 100%. Not only does one strain work differently for each person, you can manipulate a strain to do different things for the same person. You can manipulate the way you grow it and you can manipulate the product, giving you a variety of results from each strain.

[Norby]

I noticed this fem seed does not have the thick white hair like the sativa dom version did.  I think this is just a sign of genetic diversity in fem seeds.  Everyone had similar experiences as it being an awake strain to anxious for those so inclined.  Although it never went more than 8 weeks so it may have become heavy if let go to 100%red.

I agree that there is diversity in the same cut because of env factors but I think there is even moreso in seeds, even if they are feminized from the same cut. 

[trichcycler]

you use the "hair" color as opposed to the trichome condition to determine harvest date ?  I know others that do this too.

[in vivo]

This lemon skunk is from GHS. I should have stated that. It's a tank of a plant, completely done in 8-9 weeks, and has been around for about five years now. I'm guessing that the high myrcene might be responsible for some of the sedation and muscle fatigue. I'll have to go back over the alpha Humulene. I think I need to make threads for each of these terpenes to make retrieving of the info easier. It's tedious trying to scan through this whole thread, and I'm not as familiar with them yet as I'd like to be.

 

I agree that it's difficult at best to gauge a single review on a specific chemotype. I hope to be able to provide more for each.  We should be able to get about 12 hopefully for each one. It's really very subjective and without having personal knowledge of the reviewer a single review might be close to meaningless. There are a number of factors that come into play in an individual's subjective experience. Including other medications, diet, disease (expression of cannabinoid receptors can change). Lastly I'm in here calling these hk or ls, but does that mean your cut is going to be the same, or similar to mine? I don't know, probably not. I do want to learn how much different they can be. I suspect that would come down to how stabilized the breeding line is. The more phenotypes you find the more likely that two strain from the same breeder can be different. Playing along with this and trading cuts with others that are playing along might be one way to investigate that.

 

One thing I'd like to point out is that the terpene profiles are supposedly much more fixed than the cannabinoids. Time will tell if that's true.   

 

I might need to start posting the amounts of cannabinoids and terpenes in addition to the ratios. I think it provides a little more insight. I just wanted to avoid focusing on that more than the ratios. 

[in vivo]

Differentiating the effects of these ratios and compounds is only part of what we can learn through this. There's enough information to lead one to believe that there are ways in which we can levy more control through the growing process to help promote an increase in various cannabinoids and ratios. One example would be the possibility that UV-B will increase THC content. After I've got a few profiles on a particular chemotype I plan to play around with adding UV-B lighting in flower to find out how well that might work. Understanding the metabolism in the plant might also help us to find ways to promote changes in cannabinoid content and ratios via nute regiments as well. They studied that in the GW thesis on growing, but omitted it because they said it could be used by illicit growers. I don't know about you, but I'm certainly intrigued by that.

[Norby]

Not necessarily.  I used to strictly use hair color 20 years ago. Now I harvest around when it starts to sparkle at me.  Seems to be a certain day that it just glows compared to the day before.  Then I usually harvest within a week.  For most of my strains this was within a couple days of 8 weeks.  I never let the trichs go amber.  May try with all of them at one point or another.  Or just leave a branch or 2 to go the extra week now that I'll have the plant count.  I love experimenting.  it's the only way to get to know the parameters of a strain.

you use the "hair" color as opposed to the trichome condition to determine harvest date ?  I know others that do this too.

[in vivo]

I noticed this fem seed does not have the thick white hair like the sativa dom version did.  I think this is just a sign of genetic diversity in fem seeds. 

 

This one has relatively large pistils, fat calyxes that swell quickly, and not much stretch at all. I never intended on posting pics of them. Maybe I should. A picture in a word is worth a bush in the hand, or something like that.

 

What I've done in the past in terms of harvesting is either look at the 'ripening of the plant', or a majority of cloudiness with minimal amber. I figure it'll keep degrading on its own. Once they go cloudy the plant does seem to glisten a bit more in the light, more of a contrast against darkening pigments as well. I've seen a number of strains go 12+ weeks without seeing much amber.   

 

Everyone had similar experiences as it being an awake strain to anxious for those so inclined.

 

I am finding more and more that I prefer the type of strains that deliver a creative and energetic feeling, particularly during the day. My current daytime go-to is the sour og. I find that many strains can deliver this for me initially, but 15-60 minutes later muscle fatigue and tiring seem to often set in. Lemon skunk sort of delivers more of a stupefying and and heavy body load sensation about 15 minutes after smoking it (for me). It's not the kind of strain I can smoke all day and get much done. That's why I tend to associate it with pain relief.  It should probably be noted that due to my tolerance my reviews might not correlate that well with the majority of patients. 

[in vivo]

(edit: moved table to first page.)

Edited March 12, 2014 by in vivo

[+washtenaut]

Very interesting thread.  Thanks.

 

In Vivo, just a very minor point to mention about your Lemon Skunk Review.  Did you forget to fill in the part of the review form shown below? 

 

Isn't legal use of medical cannabis in Michigan just to relieve symptoms of qualifying conditions?  If I am remembering that correctly, one wouldn't want it to appear in the write up that they were using this medicine without any symptoms

 

Severity of your symptoms at the time of ingestion: 0