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Card Expiration Leads To Getting Arrest


Dermotthedude
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I have been a patient since 2010, I run a lawn service and am very busy this year. My mmmp card expired in July and I haven't had time to renew it. I was on my way to a hydroponic store in livonia and as I got into the left hand turn lane I notice the shop isn't open yet. I put my blinker back on and get back on the road I was driving down and immediately spot a cop watching the entrance of the shop. They pull me over for having a pine tree air fresher on my mirror tell me to turn my car off and step out of the car and ask to search. I say yea go ahead I knew I didn't have any marijuana but they did find a pipe I had lost about a month ago. So they arrested me and threw me in jail. Charged me with paraphernalia and obstructed vision. My question is if I renew my card before court in two weeks can I possibly avoid probation and avoid having this on my record forever?

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But with a good lawyer you might have a shot on a section 8.  This is a good time for everyone to check their expiration dates.  Renewing your card has a low priority UNTIL you need it.  

 

Now that you are looking at hiring an attorney and spending a little time in the criminal justice system, where would you put renewing your card on the relative scale of importance Dermot?

 

Dr. Bob

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Yes the courts don't care how busy you are they only care about the law and how much they can make you pay in fines.

 

But  if its just a misdemeanor paraphernalia charge it shouldn't affect you much though it could be much worse they could have scraped the resin and tested it and charged you with possession of a controlled substance .

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You have been seen by a doc, certified, and expired.  A lawyer might be able to work with that to help.  But the question becomes is it worth it?

 

Not making light of your situation, but your case really speaks to following the rules and staying on top of things- There are so many times I see folks assign wrong priorities to things in this field.

 

I don't have insurance, so I can't afford to go to the doc to get medical records, but I can afford to buy meds and set up a grow.

I don't have to see a doctor, because my last clinic just sent me a renewal in the mail and it is too much trouble to go see them.

Sure officer, you can search my car.

If I can save $25 on a cert and don't need records, why get records and go to a reputable doc?  I'll never end up in court and need that doc, right???

 

HEY, I DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW THE RULES---  SECTION 8 IS ALL I NEED.

 

And the list goes on and on.

 

Really man, I am sorry for your situation, but why don't you share the experience with others?  Maybe someone will learn something and you can save another patient from a heartache later.

 

How much do the attorneys want to defend you?

How many days off of work are required to go to court?

How did this affect your home life?

 

Give folks that don't assign a high priority to section 4 and playing by the rules a taste of what you are going through.

 

Dr. Bob

Edited by Dr. Bob
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The AD may be asserted by a patient or the patients “primary caregiver” for any marijuana charge(s) pending on or issued after December 4, 2008. A case is considered “pending” from the time the charge(s) is formally issued until there is a resolution of the charge(s) by a guilty/no contest plea, a finding of guilt after a trial, or the outright dismissal.

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Definitley get renewed, asap. Paraphernalia ? man that's grasping, ehh

Obstructed vision ? Hopefully they will get tossed.

 

#1. You were not drug tested. Right?

a. What reason did they give to get you out of the vehicle?

#2 You were not in an accident? How could the AF be criminally obstructing vision? It wasn't adhered or afixed in any way to the windshield? It was hanging from the mirror. Right? Why wasn't the Mirror obstructing your vision. Perhaps it even enhanced your vision! The stimulating scent ?

 

fact: DocB has the plan. Smooth operator ....

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Definitley get renewed, asap. Paraphernalia ? man that's grasping, ehh

Obstructed vision ? Hopefully they will get tossed.

 

#1. You were not drug tested. Right?

a. What reason did they give to get you out of the vehicle?

#2 You were not in an accident? How could the AF be criminally obstructing vision? It wasn't adhered or afixed in any way to the windshield? It was hanging from the mirror. Right? Why wasn't the Mirror obstructing your vision. Perhaps it even enhanced your vision! The stimulating scent ?

 

fact: DocB has the plan. Smooth operator ....

I do agree with what you are saying but most people don't know that there is a Law that say's you can't hang anything from your Mirror and Leo will use it all the time to get you pulled over and off your Square

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(Bob this isn't directed at you)

 

This and other MMJ forums are full of Section 8 'experts'-most of which have their own pet theory on what section 8 allows them to do beyond the section 4 have a card, stay in the limits, use it for your medical use and had your grow secured definition of what the MMMA allows you to do.  These 'experts' will tell you what you want to hear, they will tell you p2p is ok, that you can have a dispensary or farmers market, or that a caregiver is anyone that says they are are caregiver and they can have all the patients they can supply- and they can grow enough to supply all their 'patients'.  The common theme of these theories is that someone wants to turn MMJ into a business and make some money.

 

These same people have never actually run a section 8 defense and are unwilling to take their own advice on what section 8 is and the associated risk.  But they will be quick to suggest YOU take it.

 

Section 8 of the mmma is simply the ability of a patient to try to explain to the court why they didn't follow the limitations of Section 4.  It is basically admitting you didn't follow the rules, but trying to explain yourself and ask the court to grant you mercy.  Nothing more.  If you make a good case, meet the three prongs of the defense,  and the court accepts it, you can get your charges dismissed.  You are already in the hot seat, you have been arrested and charged, this is your punt on 4th and 30 to try and avoid FURTHER jail.

Edited by Dr. Bob
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I do agree with what you are saying but most people don't know that there is a Law that say's you can't hang anything from your Mirror and Leo will use it all the time to get you pulled over and off your Square

I never have nothing afixed to my windsheild accept my mirror,  I have been pulled over for many stupid things on my windsheild, including a pine air freshener, a radar detector, phone holder, you name it lol, ive been pulled over for it, now I dont have no kind of obstructions and I drive like a lil old man on sunday going to church!

 

Peace

Jim

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I have been a patient. They pull me over for having a pine tree air fresher on my mirror tell me to turn my car off and step out of the car and ask to search.

 

I say yea go ahead

 

I knew I didn't have any marijuana....they did find a pipe I had lost about a month ago. So they arrested me and threw me in jail. Charged me with paraphernalia

"I said, "Yea, I'm not gonna use any of my rights."

 

Edited by pic book
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I never have nothing afixed to my windsheild accept my mirror,  I have been pulled over for many stupid things on my windsheild, including a pine air freshener, a radar detector, phone holder, you name it lol, ive been pulled over for it, now I dont have no kind of obstructions and I drive like a lil old man on sunday going to church!

 

Peace

Jim

 

I took the mirror off too. Cause it was obstructing my Vision. Esp the GPS part of it [/w On-star]!  How many mirrors does one need?

Edited by solabeirtan
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Section 8 of the mmma is simply the ability of a patient to try to explain to the court why they didn't follow the limitations of Section 4.  It is basically admitting you didn't follow the rules, but trying to explain yourself and ask the court to grant you mercy.  Nothing more.  

 

section 8 is there for registered and unregistered patients who are following the law as well.

sec8 is protection against kangaroo courts and dirty cops.

 

 

If you make a good case, meet the three prongs of the defense,  and the court accepts it, you can get your charges dismissed.  You are already in the hot seat, you have been arrested and charged, this is your punt on 4th and 30 to try and avoid FURTHER jail.

 

could you please name me a single section 8 case that failed?

 

kolanek's did, he got screwed by not getting a rec after the mmma became a law.

but another person who fulfilled the three prongs of king/kolanek opinion and lost?

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Here is a possible way out if you really want to take a paraphernalia charge to trial.

 

In order to commit a crime you must have intent.  You must have had conscious possession of the illegal item.  There is an argument to be made in your case that you lost the pipe at a time when you were legally allowed to possess it and just figured it was long gone.  After your card expired, then so did your protection for possession of the pipe but if you didn't know it was still in the car then you didn't have the criminal intent to possess the pipe.

 

Explain to the prosecutor your dilemma.  Maybe they will offer a civil infraction.  They may anyway.  Do you have any priors?

 

Also, how was the pipe found?  Did you give consent to search?

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the police are always near the walmarts in livonia.

i try to avoid the walmart roads (middlebelt + 7mile or plymouth).

try parking at walgreens and walking over to SGS? who knows.

 

My question is if I renew my card before court in two weeks can I possibly avoid probation and avoid having this on my record forever?

 

1. it takes about 30 days for lara to get you a new card.

2. i would renew. the cards are good for 2 years now.

3. you maybe able to argue you thought the card you were issued was good for 2 years due to the new rule.

i wouldnt bet money on it.

 

the law currently says:

 

(e) The department shall issue registry identification cards within 5 business days of approving an application or renewal, which shall expire 2 years after the date of issuance. Registry identification cards shall contain all of the following:

so you have a serious chance. 

 

sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the law says to get sec4 protection, you must show your card and DL. did you show the cop your mmmp card?

 

if you get real lucky you can explain to the judge and he will dismiss the pipe charge.

otherwise, the only way to get out of probation is to file a motion to dismiss under section 8 of the mmma.

 

i recommend talking to a lawyer, and ask the lawyer if the lawyer can talk directly to the prosecutor to have the charges dropped immediately instead of going to court and wasting time. dropping of charges happened in another case here on the forums.

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section 8 is there for registered and unregistered patients who are following the law as well.

sec8 is protection against kangaroo courts and dirty cops.

 

 

 

could you please name me a single section 8 case that failed?

 

kolanek's did, he got screwed by not getting a rec after the mmma became a law.

but another person who fulfilled the three prongs of king/kolanek opinion and lost?

kangaroo courts and dirty cops have something to do with section 8????  really?  that has absolutely nothing to do with section 8 at all.

 

failed section 8 defenses?  happen all the time if you can't prove the 3 prongs.  I would think that most folks that try section 8 have a pretty good story to tell the court to show they met all three prongs.  Certainly you know there is more to a section 8 defense than just saying you have a section 8 defense.  You have to prove it to the satisfaction of the court.

 

all in all, my characterization of section 8 is pretty spot on.  don't think it is anything it is not.

 

Dr. Bob

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Ok I just renewed my card as quickly as I could. Thank u everyone for the wisdom and telling me what I really needed to hear. This is an experience ill will never forget . Take it from me dermot the silly billy get your bunny muffin straight and don't take this card for granted Hopefully you all can take something from this totally unnessecary dilemma.

To answer some more questions I was given no reason why to get out and get searched. I was completely sober.

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Have your lawyer give me a call if he thinks I can help your case if it gets to that.  Just to show I wasn't picking on you and make up for any GI distress I caused, I'll be happy to donate my services to your lawyer and testify for ya by phone if need be.

 

Dr. Bob

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