Marshall Alternative, Livingston Cty, Owners Sentenced

[abe supercro]

http://www.livingstondaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013308230012

 

After two raids and selling to an undercover agent with a fake mmmj card, the proprietors of this Handy Township dispensary have been sentenced to 1 year probation. They must of had a great lawyer!

[ilynnboy]

I Effing hate fake cards.... How is that not Illegal?

How is that not entrapment by misrepresentation?

I know, it is Legal for them to lie to us but not the Other way around.

I Hated MyFather for doing that same bunny muffin. You know, do as I say do, not as I do.

Hypocrites..

[CaveatLector]

If the underlying activity is a crime then how is there entrapment?  If it is illegal to sell to a patient that is NOT registry connected then selling to any patient with a card (valid or not) is a crime.  If it were legal to sell to any patient, regardless of registry connection, then there may be a case for entrapment if the person were charged for selling to a non-patient (with a fake card). 

 

Misrepresenting whether you are a patient is not relevant if it is illegal to sell to ANY patient anyway.  Why?  Because, patient or not, you still committed a crime.

[BirdHunter]

They threw the worker in jail for 10 days because she admidded to drinking on bond.

[bobandtorey]

They threw the worker in jail for 10 days because she admidded to drinking on bond.

Did she no  or was she tricked into saying that she was?

[solabeirtan]

If the underlying activity is a crime then how is there entrapment?  If it is illegal to sell to a patient that is NOT registry connected then selling to any patient with a card (valid or not) is a crime.  If it were legal to sell to any patient, regardless of registry connection, then there may be a case for entrapment if the person were charged for selling to a non-patient (with a fake card). 

 

Misrepresenting whether you are a patient is not relevant if it is illegal to sell to ANY patient anyway.  Why?  Because, patient or not, you still committed a crime.

Is it a crime? The State requires you to commit to a Doctor for Recommendation based on your medical history. Issues a Registry Card. Authorizes its use, procurement, propagation and even the use of a caregiver to facilitate patient supplies. You could possibly make a case if you were a legitimate patient, if you were using a bogus card, not likely.   

 

   The underlying activity that the Patients are engaged in is related to their officially State Compliant registered legally permitted choice to use Cannabis. It is recomended by a State Authorized Medical Doctor, who agrees that you may benefit from its non-addictive, potential healing properties..in a safe and responsible manner.

 

   Any other unauthorized use would fall under the FED CSA Laws. Including their use as described by LEO to facilitate true violations of said CSA by appearing to be mutually complicit criminals engaged in known prohibited illegal activity.

 

However this is where the issue arrizes that the officers are authorized to engage in its CSs purchase/sale to facilitate a criminal act. Whereby the act was only criminally suspect by the fact that the Officers of the same State that issued the permits for its use are now using it to make participants criminals. By creating Laws from the Bench. 

[Chauncy Gardner]

Is it a crime? The State requires you to commit to a Doctor for Recommendation based on your medical history. Issues a Registry Card. Authorizes its use, procurement, propagation and even the use of a caregiver to facilitate patient supplies. You could possibly make a case if you were a legitimate patient, if you were using a bogus card, not likely.   

 

   The underlying activity that the Patients are engaged in is related to their officially State Compliant registered legally permitted choice to use Cannabis. It is recomended by a State Authorized Medical Doctor, who agrees that you may benefit from its non-addictive, potential healing properties..in a safe and responsible manner.

 

   Any other unauthorized use would fall under the FED CSA Laws. Including their use as described by LEO to facilitate true violations of said CSA by appearing to be mutually complicit criminals engaged in known prohibited illegal activity.

 

However this is where the issue arrizes that the officers are authorized to engage in its CSs purchase/sale to facilitate a criminal act. Whereby the act was only criminally suspect by the fact that the Officers of the same State that issued the permits for its use are now using it to make participants criminals. By creating Laws from the Bench. 

 

 Ya know, more and more these days I am believing that these people (LEO and the Courts) derive some sort of sadistic pleasure from harassing marijuana users. They have become addicted to chemicals within their bodies that fire up whenever they have the opportunity to stick it to some harmless pot user. Losing the source from which these chemicals are derived makes them apoplectic and they are no longer able to think clearly nor be able to differentiate between real crime and harmless activity.

[pergamum362]

 Ya know, more and more these days I am believing that these people (LEO and the Courts) derive some sort of sadistic pleasure from harassing marijuana users. They have become addicted to chemicals within their bodies that fire up whenever they have the opportunity to stick it to some harmless pot user. Losing the source from which these chemicals are derived makes them apoplectic and they are no longer able to think clearly nor be able to differentiate between real crime and harmless activity.

Lmao....seriously lmao....haha...totally possible.

[CaveatLector]

Is it a crime?

Yes.  Selling to an unconnected patient is a crime.

[bobandtorey]

Is it a crime? The State requires you to commit to a Doctor for Recommendation based on your medical history. Issues a Registry Card. Authorizes its use, procurement, propagation and even the use of a caregiver to facilitate patient supplies. You could possibly make a case if you were a legitimate patient, if you were using a bogus card, not likely.   

 

   The underlying activity that the Patients are engaged in is related to their officially State Compliant registered legally permitted choice to use Cannabis. It is recomended by a State Authorized Medical Doctor, who agrees that you may benefit from its non-addictive, potential healing properties..in a safe and responsible manner.

 

   Any other unauthorized use would fall under the FED CSA Laws. Including their use as described by LEO to facilitate true violations of said CSA by appearing to be mutually complicit criminals engaged in known prohibited illegal activity.

 

However this is where the issue arrizes that the officers are authorized to engage in its CSs purchase/sale to facilitate a criminal act. Whereby the act was only criminally suspect by the fact that the Officers of the same State that issued the permits for its use are now using it to make participants criminals. By creating Laws from the Bench. 

I would say you got that right

[bobandtorey]

 Ya know, more and more these days I am believing that these people (LEO and the Courts) derive some sort of sadistic pleasure from harassing marijuana users. They have become addicted to chemicals within their bodies that fire up whenever they have the opportunity to stick it to some harmless pot user. Losing the source from which these chemicals are derived makes them apoplectic and they are no longer able to think clearly nor be able to differentiate between real crime and harmless activity.

They get a rush out of it

[Chauncy Gardner]

They get a rush out of it

 

Eggs Ackley. That is what I think it is, coupled with the fact that they fear losing this source for their power rush.

[Dr. Bob]

Is it a crime? The State requires you to commit to a Doctor for Recommendation based on your medical history. Issues a Registry Card. Authorizes its use, procurement, propagation and even the use of a caregiver to facilitate patient supplies. You could possibly make a case if you were a legitimate patient, if you were using a bogus card, not likely.   

 

   The underlying activity that the Patients are engaged in is related to their officially State Compliant registered legally permitted choice to use Cannabis. It is recomended by a State Authorized Medical Doctor, who agrees that you may benefit from its non-addictive, potential healing properties..in a safe and responsible manner.

 

   Any other unauthorized use would fall under the FED CSA Laws. Including their use as described by LEO to facilitate true violations of said CSA by appearing to be mutually complicit criminals engaged in known prohibited illegal activity.

 

However this is where the issue arrizes that the officers are authorized to engage in its CSs purchase/sale to facilitate a criminal act. Whereby the act was only criminally suspect by the fact that the Officers of the same State that issued the permits for its use are now using it to make participants criminals. By creating Laws from the Bench. 

perhaps it is unclear as presented.  so let me take a stab at it.  if a patient has a card, fake or not, that doesn't have your name on the back and you sell to them, you committed a crime.  since what you did (ie sell to someone with a real/fake card that didn't have your name on the back) was clearly illegal, there is no entrapment.

 

Dr. Bob

[cristinew]

We need to take the crime out of cannabis ,

[greenleaf]

I Effing hate fake cards.... How is that not Illegal?

How is that not entrapment by misrepresentation?

I know, it is Legal for them to lie to us but not the Other way around.

I Hated MyFather for doing that same bunny muffin. You know, do as I say do, not as I do.

Hypocrites..

 

Police Officers have governmental immunity from prosecution of misdemeanor offenses that occur while performing their official duties.  Judges benefit from judicial immunity.

[CaveatLector]

Police Officers have governmental immunity from prosecution of misdemeanor offenses that occur while performing their official duties. 

No they don't.

[greenleaf]

 Ya know, more and more these days I am believing that these people (LEO and the Courts) derive some sort of sadistic pleasure from harassing marijuana users. They have become addicted to chemicals within their bodies that fire up whenever they have the opportunity to stick it to some harmless pot user. Losing the source from which these chemicals are derived makes them apoplectic and they are no longer able to think clearly nor be able to differentiate between real crime and harmless activity.

 

It has to be something like a sport. And, people are proud of what they do for a living and take pride in their work.  At least some people.

 

There is likely truth to what you're saying about the endorphin rush.  It's a drug of sorts.  A friend jumps out of perfectly good airplanes for a similar reason.

 

The judges probably like the dollars, because they have a financial responsibility to the city.  So it's more of a problem solving issue.  Which I'm betting someone in BIG government has already devised a replacement that's just over the hill.  Something has to fill that money & power vacuum.

[bobandtorey]

No they don't.

They can lie and do so  it's ok ?

[Dr. Bob]

They can lie and do so  it's ok ?

Yes.

[solabeirtan]

perhaps it is unclear as presented.  so let me take a stab at it.  if a patient has a card, fake or not, that doesn't have your name on the back and you sell to them, you committed a crime.  since what you did (ie sell to someone with a real/fake card that didn't have your name on the back) was clearly illegal, there is no entrapment.

 

Dr. Bob

 

 

Very good, Dr Bob, glad to see you're a sporting type! hehehe Ok so say LEO comes in the Shop looks over some goods decides to make a purchase. So if the Officer was a legitimate Registered Patient/Caregiver he would be 100% Legal to procure Cannabis. So where's the crime?

 

The Cop makes you a criminal by illegaly commiting [mis-representation] a legal act [Procure Cannabis as per MMMAof2008]. Very dodgy impo. So at the moment of  transaction LEOs crime is that he has a false Reg Card and Cannabis in his possesion. The Disp worker/owner is presumed to be operating within the confines of the Law otherwise is not intending to commit a crime. 

 

" Two competing tests exist for determining whether entrapment has taken place, known as the "subjective" and "objective" tests.

The "subjective" test looks at the defendant's state of mind; entrapment can be claimed if the defendant had no "predisposition" to commit the crime.

The "objective" test looks instead at the government's conduct; entrapment occurs when the actions of government officers would usually have caused a normally law-abiding person to commit a crime."

[BirdHunter]

No they don't.

De facto, yes, because nobody prosecutes them.

[Highlander]

Very good, Dr Bob, glad to see you're a sporting type! hehehe Ok so say LEO comes in the Shop looks over some goods decides to make a purchase. So if the Officer was a legitimate Registered Patient/Caregiver he would be 100% Legal to procure Cannabis. So where's the crime?

 

The Cop makes you a criminal by illegaly commiting [mis-representation] a legal act [Procure Cannabis as per MMMAof2008]. Very dodgy impo. So at the moment of  transaction LEOs crime is that he has a false Reg Card and Cannabis in his possesion. The Disp worker/owner is presumed to be operating within the confines of the Law otherwise is not intending to commit a crime. 

 

" Two competing tests exist for determining whether entrapment has taken place, known as the "subjective" and "objective" tests.

The "subjective" test looks at the defendant's state of mind; entrapment can be claimed if the defendant had no "predisposition" to commit the crime.

The "objective" test looks instead at the government's conduct; entrapment occurs when the actions of government officers would usually have caused a normally law-abiding person to commit a crime."

 

It doesn't matter if the LEOs were real patients or not.  The supreme court decided that if you transfer MJ to someone who isn't your registered patient, then you committed a felony....carded patient or random person......  So the LEOs could walk into the dispensary as legit patients and legally buy MMJ....It is legal for a patient to buy anywhere...so the LEOs didn't break the law.....  But if the guy selling to them isn't their CG, then he committed a felony.  It is as simple as that. 

Edited August 30, 2013 by Highlander