House Of Representatives Top Secret Hb 4271 Hearing

[in vivo]

The idea that CBD hasn't been shown to be an anticonvulsant is simply inaccurate. I would provide citations, but I don't think this is about fact as much as emotion.

[+Malamute]

I think I said it does help some people with certain types of seizures? Which refutes her comments.

 

THC helps some people with certain types of seizures. THC-V helps certain people with certain types of seizures. etc etc etc.

 

She was merely incorrect in her statements to the most important people to give facts to,... the people in control of what the future of medical cannabis will be. And, I believe she did it to merely facilitate her business interests.

 

*shrug*

[in vivo]

Thank you for clarifying your position.

 

I make no claims to understanding her intent. 

[in vivo]

I'd be very interested in reading the study about CBD that you're citing. Can you by chance provide a link?

[+Malamute]

I have them in Medical books.

 

"Molecular Neurobiology of The Cannabinoid Receptor"

 

"Marihuana as Medicine"

 

 And several studies have been done about this showing only partial effects for specific forms of epilepsy:

 

Marihuana and epilepsy: paradoxical anticonvulsant and convulsant effects

 

Interaction between delta-9-tetrahydrocannibinol and kindling by electrical and chemical stimuli

 

 

And much of it can be found in the "Cochrane Database".

 

 

Otherwise, Google is your friend?

[garyfisher]

This woman is clearly not a scientiest.  She doesn't know bunny muffin.

 

She can barely pronounce the word "phosphorus"

She cannot pronounce "mechanism"

 

What a dumb cupcake. 

Edited September 6, 2013 by garyfisher

[in vivo]

So in other words, your answer is "no". 

 

The citations you do provide are from the late seventies to the early eighties. There has been a great deal of subsequent research that's much more comprehensive.

 

Those studies are cited here. They don't support your claims about CBD causing seizures. They do however discuss THC being both a pro and anti convulsant. 

 

Perhaps there is a study that's found CBD to be a proconvulsant, I've never read one, that's why I asked for a citation. I think it's commonly accepted that CBD primarily displays anticonvulsant properties by in large.   

 

As an individual that supports your cause, I find it frustrating when claims that information is being manipulated to support an agenda, is combated with information seemingly being manipulated to support an agenda. I don't think that it helps. She omitted the word "some". In my mind, that's certainly no more misleading than presenting information as fact (without citation), that contradicts the majority of research that's publicly available. This type of behavior seems only to serve to make the opposition's argument stronger.

 

There are arguments to be made on behalf on home grows. This just doesn't seem like one of them in my mind. Your mileage may vary.  

Edited September 6, 2013 by in vivo

[in vivo]

Is anyone familiar with the "farmers market model" that's spoken about in the second video? I don't see it mentioned in the bill.  

[semicaregiver]

in vivo,

 

From my perspective we seem to have gotten off on a bit of a tangent by discussing the minutia of what is good for epilepsy and the testing that might help resolve that issue. The real issue is whether or not legalizing dispensaries to grow will lead to the ending of home grows.

 

The trend has been to eliminate home grows once dispensaries are in place. The anti crowd is convinced that tens of thousands of home grows lead to diversion to the recreational and black market. The acceptable solution to those opposed to mmj is policing a few large grows is easier than tens of thousands of small ones.

 

The witnesses presented back in May were not random, at least not in the AM, they were hand selected to present a picture of a delivery system, i.e. caregiver, that is putting patients at risk since there is no testing. Countering the argument with technical facts is almost useless. Both you and Mal make great arguments, but the decision makers are not researchers, they are politicians. To them, requiring the testing of food and drug products is a no brainer.

 

I would suggest that we as caregivers and patients create a strategy that supports the testing/product safety issues being presented. At the same time a plan to deal with the elephant in the room, diversion, should be crafted.

[in vivo]

I appreciate you helping to get us back on track.

 

I'm not sure that I'm convinced that dispensaries will lead to home grows being outlawed, but I'm not half as well versed on this as many others here seem to be (including Mal), so I tend to concede the point.  

 

A system that enforces quality control on individual caregivers seems difficult to envision, expensive, and likely repressive. As much as I'd rather not say it, I don't see an easy way to enforce quality control standards other than holding retail establishments accountable, subject to fine, and/or loss of licenses.

 

What type of strategy might you suggest?

[_abbenormal]

hey all

 

well im sorry to see no one wants to test there meds this is sad...  if you dont understand how to extract or process the plant right then your going to harm your self and others you give those meds to... any place that sells this would have a liability on this and those who dont test to know it is safe is and should be sued to the fullest extent of the law... not one lab can do all the sampling of what the dispensary will need or want but will have to be part of the lic agreement... it is going to take multiply labs to run all the samples and keep checks on those money shops so we have safe meds... im sorry if you dont agree but ive seen many plants sold out here with pm and mites thru out the raw plant material... this will cause problems and issue with a lot of our patients... kids along with aids patients are and can be harmed using these untested plants and may cause them to get sicker... sad that you or the most of you here dont like that testing is and should be a part of dispersing this med... i guess that just shows how much we care about others were trying to help... i dont see any other way to go on this and get back the rights to get back p 2 p and c 2 p or c or p to dispensary so the masses can get there meds... the state will want and should make testing of plant material thats sold in place like this mandatory... if you couldnt grow your own and know how to make rso bho or just plan old tinctures and tired then sold to a dispensary and it is bad and makes someone sicker is why testing is important... for those who think its about money and those speaking in those meetings you maybe wrong... until you get to know those who are at least speaking hold you tongue... or get off your a s s and get into those meetings and speak or make a meeting with your rep to speak for you... i personally want testing as i know i would not want to be sued for harming anyone out here but from the sounds of this theres some here who would not care if they did as it is about them making money... sad sad sad...

 

abbe

[+Malamute]

hey all

 

... this will cause problems and issue with a lot of our patients... kids along with aids patients are and can be harmed using these untested plants and may cause them to get sicker... ...

 

abbe

 

 Show me one proven case.

 

 Sounds like the ol' razor blades in the apples wives tale.

[Natesilver]

hey all

 

well im sorry to see no one wants to test there meds this is sad... if you dont understand how to extract or process the plant right then your going to harm your self and others you give those meds to... any place that sells this would have a liability on this and those who dont test to know it is safe is and should be sued to the fullest extent of the law... not one lab can do all the sampling of what the dispensary will need or want but will have to be part of the lic agreement... it is going to take multiply labs to run all the samples and keep checks on those money shops so we have safe meds... im sorry if you dont agree but ive seen many plants sold out here with pm and mites thru out the raw plant material... this will cause problems and issue with a lot of our patients... kids along with aids patients are and can be harmed using these untested plants and may cause them to get sicker... sad that you or the most of you here dont like that testing is and should be a part of dispersing this med... i guess that just shows how much we care about others were trying to help... i dont see any other way to go on this and get back the rights to get back p 2 p and c 2 p or c or p to dispensary so the masses can get there meds... the state will want and should make testing of plant material thats sold in place like this mandatory... if you couldnt grow your own and know how to make rso bho or just plan old tinctures and tired then sold to a dispensary and it is bad and makes someone sicker is why testing is important... for those who think its about money and those speaking in those meetings you maybe wrong... until you get to know those who are at least speaking hold you tongue... or get off your a s s and get into those meetings and speak or make a meeting with your rep to speak for you... i personally want testing as i know i would not want to be sued for harming anyone out here but from the sounds of this theres some here who would not care if they did as it is about them making money... sad sad sad...

 

abbe

This is as ridiculous as saying marijuana is a gateway drug. I can't decide if you are woefully ignorant, espousing an agenda, or joking around with us. "Smoking bud that hasn't been tested by cannalytics is like playing Russian roulette"

[bobandtorey]

Okeefe the writer of Michigan Medical Marijuana Act gives her view. This meeting was never placed on the agenda, yet it covered a highly controversial topic in the State of Michigan. Patients and Caregivers rights, and the distribution of medical marijuana. However, the only view points that were given during this testimony was supportive of HB 4271. Patients and Caregivers do not support HB 4271 but we were not given a chance to attend, or voice our concerns.

 

Its great to see Mrs. Okeefe supporting us

[northerngal]

hey all

 

well im sorry to see no one wants to test there meds this is sad...  if you dont understand how to extract or process the plant right then your going to harm your self and others you give those meds to... any place that sells this would have a liability on this and those who dont test to know it is safe is and should be sued to the fullest extent of the law... not one lab can do all the sampling of what the dispensary will need or want but will have to be part of the lic agreement... it is going to take multiply labs to run all the samples and keep checks on those money shops so we have safe meds... im sorry if you dont agree but ive seen many plants sold out here with pm and mites thru out the raw plant material... this will cause problems and issue with a lot of our patients... kids along with aids patients are and can be harmed using these untested plants and may cause them to get sicker... sad that you or the most of you here dont like that testing is and should be a part of dispersing this med... i guess that just shows how much we care about others were trying to help... i dont see any other way to go on this and get back the rights to get back p 2 p and c 2 p or c or p to dispensary so the masses can get there meds... the state will want and should make testing of plant material thats sold in place like this mandatory... if you couldnt grow your own and know how to make rso bho or just plan old tinctures and tired then sold to a dispensary and it is bad and makes someone sicker is why testing is important... for those who think its about money and those speaking in those meetings you maybe wrong... until you get to know those who are at least speaking hold you tongue... or get off your a s s and get into those meetings and speak or make a meeting with your rep to speak for you... i personally want testing as i know i would not want to be sued for harming anyone out here but from the sounds of this theres some here who would not care if they did as it is about them making money... sad sad sad...

 

abbe

 

Mandatory testing?  For home growers supplying their patients?  Seriously?

 

 A caregiver would have to test EVERY plant in order for testing to be accurate.  What's the point? 

 

On the hand of dispensaries, what makes you think they will actually have each strain/plant tested, even if they are required?  How hard is it to slap a testing result from one grower on to another growers meds?  How will the consumer KNOW the meds actually were tested?  A random piece of paper from a lab that can be utilized over and over??

 

Have you been to some of the labs websites to see what they have to say??

 

Here is a quote taken from Iron Labs:  With an increased spotlight on CBD related medicinal significance, untested meds are simply no better than school yard clumps of shake.

 

 

 

Cannalytics is busy mentioning the class they are offering.  Perhaps that is why this video is now being shared?  A plug for a class?  That is what the speaker is inviting people to in this video.  

 

Here is a quote from their site:  Our referral program is taking off! If you are a farmer who tests your medications with us, and are interested in referrals to legal caregivers in need of medication and clones come into our office! We are here to serve today until 5pm. 

 

These people have ulterior motives when promoting mandatory testing.  Their opinions are biased.  They support the dispensaries and mandatory testing because that's where their $$$$ comes from  

 

Imagine what's being told to our legislators this week as Cannalytics reps go to speak to over 50 of them?  (Taken from their website)

 

 

Out of curiosity, what is the difference between a caregiver and a farmer???  Those terms are used as separate entities, in one sentence, many times by Cannalytics.  Personally I believed here in Michigan they were one and the same??

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2013 by northerngal

[bobandtorey]

hey all

 

well im sorry to see no one wants to test there meds this is sad...  if you dont understand how to extract or process the plant right then your going to harm your self and others you give those meds to... any place that sells this would have a liability on this and those who dont test to know it is safe is and should be sued to the fullest extent of the law... not one lab can do all the sampling of what the dispensary will need or want but will have to be part of the lic agreement... it is going to take multiply labs to run all the samples and keep checks on those money shops so we have safe meds... im sorry if you dont agree but ive seen many plants sold out here with pm and mites thru out the raw plant material... this will cause problems and issue with a lot of our patients... kids along with aids patients are and can be harmed using these untested plants and may cause them to get sicker... sad that you or the most of you here dont like that testing is and should be a part of dispersing this med... i guess that just shows how much we care about others were trying to help... i dont see any other way to go on this and get back the rights to get back p 2 p and c 2 p or c or p to dispensary so the masses can get there meds... the state will want and should make testing of plant material thats sold in place like this mandatory... if you couldnt grow your own and know how to make rso bho or just plan old tinctures and tired then sold to a dispensary and it is bad and makes someone sicker is why testing is important... for those who think its about money and those speaking in those meetings you maybe wrong... until you get to know those who are at least speaking hold you tongue... or get off your a s s and get into those meetings and speak or make a meeting with your rep to speak for you... i personally want testing as i know i would not want to be sued for harming anyone out here but from the sounds of this theres some here who would not care if they did as it is about them making money... sad sad sad...

 

abbe

. it is going to take multiply labs to run all the samples 

do you own one of these Lab's ?

[mibrains]

I have to agree with many here.

 

if a person wants to resale their cannabis to the general public by way of a commercial venue then across the board testing should be done to ensure the end consumer is not harmed.

 

however that being said...

 I grow for my patients.  they don't need any test to see the efficiency of any particular strain.  they don't need any test to show I didn't use pesticides.  they need but ask me and see for themselves because we are state sanctioned friends and they can try it and see.

 

that is the prime difference between many testing arguments that I have seen.  those servicing their allotted patients don't need any testing other than that which would advance the genetic science and knowledge base... not for quality controls.

 

and there are many many people who would make cannabis their own if they were allowed to do so... that is why i like the idea of 10's of thousands of home grows precisely for that reason.. those who would try to "own" this miraculous plant cannot be allowed to do so.  it belongs to the human race.. to each of us.. to all of us.

[bobandtorey]

 i agree $$$$$ is their 

idea of good meds

 

 

 

Mandatory testing?  For home growers supplying their patients?  Seriously?

 

 A caregiver would have to test EVERY plant in order for testing to be accurate.  What's the point? 

 

On the hand of dispensaries, what makes you think they will actually have each strain/plant tested, even if they are required?  How hard is it to slap a testing result from one grower on to another growers meds?  How will the consumer KNOW the meds actually were tested?  A random piece of paper from a lab that can be utilized over and over??

 

Have you been to some of the labs websites to see what they have to say??

 

Here is a quote taken from Iron Labs:  With an increased spotlight on CBD related medicinal significance, untested meds are simply no better than school yard clumps of shake.

 

 

 

Cannalytics is busy mentioning the class they are offering.  Perhaps that is why this video is now being shared?  A plug for a class?  That is what the speaker is inviting people to in this video.  

 

Here is a quote from their site:  Our referral program is taking off! If you are a farmer who tests your medications with us, and are interested in referrals to legal caregivers in need of medication and clones come into our office! We are here to serve today until 5pm. 

 

These people have ulterior motives when promoting mandatory testing.  Their opinions are biased.  They support the dispensaries and mandatory testing because that's where their $$$$ comes from  

 

Imagine what's being told to our legislators this week as Cannalytics reps go to speak to over 50 of them?  (Taken from their website)

 

 

 

 

[northerngal]

I know CPU is opposed to 4271 as it is now written.  We are lucky to have them attempting to fight some of the language.  Unfortunately, I could never afford the dues to be part of CPU.  I suppose I should clarify and ask if their are effective ways "common folk" can help oppose the language in the bill.   I was approached by another activist in the community with the same questions.  How can people help and show their opposition without hindering overall? 

 

I have not received any feedback about other groups opposing the language in this bill. 

 

Is CPU the only one? 

 

So many are in opposition to the wording but what efforts are being made by anyone other than CPU? 

 

Are we just supposed to accept this chit?  Like all the other chit handed down to us? 

 

Are we just going to let it happen and then complain and moan after the decision is made for us? 

Edited September 8, 2013 by northerngal

[bobandtorey]

I have not received any feedback about other groups opposing the language in this bill. 

 

Is CPU the only one? 

 

So many are in opposition to the wording but what efforts are being made by anyone other than CPU? 

 

Are we just supposed to accept this chit?  Like all the other chit handed down to us? 

 

Are we just going to let it happen and then complain and moan after the decision is made for us? 

That does seam like what is happening but i do think the MMMA here is also  opposing this Bill

[Hayduke]

I can only speak for CPU, but we oppose HB 4271 and we strongly oppose the new MPP medible's language to modify the MMMA. That language will circulate soon enough, and it would open the act and let the freakin' same idiots who didn't do our initial law correctly, have another COMMERCIAL bite at the apple.

 

So once they get unlimited grows and unlimited transfers between provisioning centers (HB 4271), and knowing (and even Rep Callton and Robin Schneider, the NPRA legislative lobbyist admit this) the part of HB 4271 that deals with patient and caregiver "overage" transfers to provisioning centers would not pass legal muster for the patient or caregiver with overages they are attempting to transfer in regard to the MMMA law... Oh but the good part is the Provisioning Centers would be fully protected when a patient or caregiver transfers to them.... ONLY THE PATIENT AND/OR CAREGIVER WOULD BE IN DANGER OF ARREST.... So does that sound fair to you?

 

Well the answer is easy: Provisioning centers grow for themselves and then potentially use the rights of patients and caregivers rights to grow under the MMMA to "trade up" for something else down the road that their hearts desire.

 

READ HB 4271 and realize there is no H2 version (this would be the revised language we have been promised to remove the right of provisioning centers to grow for themselves).

 

Does this sound like a bill that helps anyone but the provisioning centers and the out of state WOLVES that would like to come into Michigan to monopolize the markets?

Edited September 8, 2013 by Hayduke

[GregS]

That does seam like what is happening but i do think the MMMA here is also  opposing this Bill

The mission of the organization has been changed from that of activist to a source of information. Participatory activism is no longer in its list of priorities.

 

 

Each of us has  the opportunity, and indeed the obligation, to contact our representatives to state our opposition to the bill. When it comes into play in the judiciary committee public commentary is taken, written or oral. Written testimony is kept in the record and plays into any further deliberations. Oral testimony is required to be accompanied by printed copies of said testimony. 30 copies are required. In the meantime we can and should make buzzing sounds in those representatives' ears. I have, for instance, written to reps and called offices and talked with staff or the rep themselves, and even the Governor's office.

Edited September 8, 2013 by GregS

[semicaregiver]

Greg makes a great point about testifying and visiting your rep, but nothing works like MONEY.  For a mere $200 per head you can get together next Sat PM with the reps and supporters of 4271..

 

 

[solabeirtan]

National Retail Marihuana Proponents would be much more truthful and accurate name for your Lobby Group.  

[semicaregiver]

.....for your Lobby Group.  

Not my lobby group, just pointing out what is happening with regards to promoting 4271. 

 

While we are all talking about testifying and writing to our reps and senators, the group promoting 4271 has given over $60,000 in cold hard cash to the reps and senators.  The fundraiser I posted above is a duplicate of the one they did back in the Spring.