We All Need Each Other: A Multi-Faceted Coalition

[greenbuddha]

This is something we don't have to compromise on though.  If we can get partial legalization, why not hold out for full legalization?  How do you know we can;t get it?  Why are you so convinced we HAVE to compromise?  

 

The majority of people in the US now agree with us, according to polls.  Why should we give in now when we are finally winning?

 

 

Not you, me, NO ONE is going to be allowed to grow cannabis like you would grow tomatoes, no one, no where, isn't going to happen.

 

And to demand that condition as a pre-qualification for 'legalization' means we would NEVER see ANY type of legalization, EVER.

 

To try and get the home-growing of X-number of plants, UNTAXED might just be possible, they did it in Colorado, it can be done here as well.

 

But I'm still going to hold out for being able to drive that fire truck in the nude while I partake of my herb... now THAT I'm certain could be passed into legislation  

[bobandtorey]

My reply may not come out well but it is only my opinion we may have the people on our side i can agree to that but we still don't have Leo or the Courts on our side they are the ones that matter most to me

 

i still believe that the Medical Marihuana Law we have now has not been totally implemented by Leo nor the Courts and soon it will be 5 years old and i still get calls from people telling their War stores just yesterday someone told of one he was somewhat over his plant count and usable Cannabis but Leo waited 3 months for his Cannabis to dry until they charged him 

 

and it cost him $10,000 dollars and one year of probation 

[bobandtorey]

Not you, me, NO ONE is going to be allowed to grow cannabis like you would grow tomatoes, no one, no where, isn't going to happen.

 

And to demand that condition as a pre-qualification for 'legalization' means we would NEVER see ANY type of legalization, EVER.

 

To try and get the home-growing of X-number of plants, UNTAXED might just be possible, they did it in Colorado, it can be done here as well.

 

But I'm still going to hold out for being able to drive that fire truck in the nude while I partake of my herb... now THAT I'm certain could be passed into legislation

 

 

no one is going to be allowed to grow cannabis like you would grow tomatoes 

 

you are right IMHO the plant is still in a cage even in Colorado 

[bobandtorey]

What is the advantage of this type of pseudo-legalization over the MMMA?

 pretending to be something it is not ?

[imiubu]

Cell, I totally agree about freedom to grow...heck I'd like to be able to run around in the nude while driving a fire engine as I partake of my homegrown untaxed cannabis, but I doubt I'll ever be allowed to do that, I'm sure some of my neighbors would probably object. But I'll keep on pushing for the right to do it, reasonable or not.

 

But for right now I'll settle for the right to grow some plants at home and enjoy my cannabis without the law kicking my door in and throwing azz into a privatized jail cell.

 

Sometimes you have to compromise, even when we hate it.

 

In the mean time I'll keep pushing for the right to home-grow my herb for personal use... UNTAXED, the rest can happen as it may.

 

Whoo whoo, me too!!!

Come pick me up gb, it sounds like fun

 

Can I blast the Buell ?

[imiubu]

This is something we don't have to compromise on though.  If we can get partial legalization, why not hold out for full legalization?  How do you know we can;t get it?  Why are you so convinced we HAVE to compromise?  

 

The majority of people in the US now agree with us, according to polls.  Why should we give in now when we are finally winning?

 

I may not have the greatest command of 'legalese' but I can read a dictionary and clearly understand the difference between

legalization and decriminalization.  They are vast although they appear similar.

 

IMO, until the Fed Gov reschedules cannabis this discussion is moot.

 

conjecture :  I put a nice cannabis crop out in my field, Monsanto plants a crop of their gmo cannabis down the way... unbeknownst to me.

Monsanto doesn't cull males of course, shrug... so the pollen is flying.  Next thing you know this huge corp is suing me for using their

patented cannabis genetics... they take everything I own and I will still owe them. 

Yes, this is happening all too often, right here in the good ole US of A.

 

Okay that ^^ was not on point.  I just wanted to show what 'might' occur in the event of allowing (yes legalization would be to 'allow') us

to cultivate cannabis 'freely'.

[greenbuddha]

I may not have the greatest command of 'legalese' but I can read a dictionary and clearly understand the difference between

legalization and decriminalization.  They are vast although they appear similar.

 

IMO, until the Fed Gov reschedules cannabis this discussion is moot.

 

conjecture :  I put a nice cannabis crop out in my field, Monsanto plants a crop of their gmo cannabis down the way... unbeknownst to me.

Monsanto doesn't cull males of course, shrug... so the pollen is flying.  Next thing you know this huge corp is suing me for using their

patented cannabis genetics... they take everything I own and I will still owe them. 

Yes, this is happening all too often, right here in the good ole US of A.

 

Okay that ^^ was not on point.  I just wanted to show what 'might' occur in the event of allowing (yes legalization would be to 'allow') us

to cultivate cannabis 'freely'.

 

 

Imi, the problem as I see it with 'decriminalizing' as opposed to 'legalization' (unless it's done dam carefully) is that the decriminalization will only allow you to have possession of X amount, but the 'growing', 'obtaining' and 'transporting'  WON'T be decriminalized and LEO will still be kicking doors in and filling the privatized jails with our butts to keep 'their' money/income flowing to themselves.

 

AND we'd still have the 'forfeiture' laws taking everything we own.

 

It's a tuff one but I'm sure we'll figure it out.

 

And as soon as the fire truck is done with the repaint job, I'll grab my birthday suit and be right over.

 

 

[bobandtorey]

i can see your point on decriminalizing Cannabis and i am not for that i am for what we have now not some pipe dream of growing Cannabis in my back yard

 

we need to stay the course for Cannabis to be used for medical reason's as the great people of this State have allowed us to do

 

 but  Leo and the Courts have denied us to even do that in most cases i do sometimes think things are getting better but when i sit down to write letters to the people i know that our in jail i don't think they would agree to that

[greenbuddha]

i can see your point on decriminalizing Cannabis and i am not for that i am for what we have now not some pipe dream of growing Cannabis in my back yard

 

we need to stay the course for Cannabis to be used for medical reason's as the great people of this State have allowed us to do

 

 but  Leo and the Courts have denied us to even do that in most cases i do sometimes think things are getting better but when i sit down to write letters to the people i know that our in jail i don't think they would agree to that

 

I always have and always will support the MMMA as it was written and as it should be followed.

 

But I will also continue to support those people that want to have the right to use MJ for other than medical reasons.

 

There are also all the other 'medical conditions' that people have that LARA and its boards are not going to include on the treatment list... what about those people? Do we let them just be thrown in jail for using a plant that should never have been outlawed?

 

And all of us 'medical' users should remember, it was the 'recreational users' (who out number medical users) that helped us get the right to use MJ medically.

 

And, as IMIUBU said, (I think?) all this talk is going nowhere for us here in Michigan.  A number of other states will have to have the courage to vote in a 'legalization law' before Michigan will ever get around to it.

 

But NONE of us should be surprised if Lansing in the very near future starts to put together a 'recreational use' law that WE (MMJ users, recreational users and the general public) WON'T be ready to deal with.

 

Said about all I have to say on the subject, so it's outside to enjoy the sunshine while it lasts.

 

Choi and peace.

[jointedone]

Edited October 16, 2013 by jointedone

[greenbuddha]

You have declared this, though I question your rationale for saying it. The idea that it is probable that the Michigan Legislature will write a bad legalization bill, yet impossible to pass a good voter initiative seems, to me, preposterous.

 

So you think a 'voter' legalization initiative is likely???

 

Have a time table in mind???

 

And I've been on the planet long enough to know that NOTHING is so preposterous as to be an impossibility.

 

Just months ago none of us would have guessed that the DEA would get out of the way of MJ legalization, and THAT certainly bordered on the preposterous as a possibility if ANY thing did.

 

But then life is always full of surprises, ain't it?

[greenbuddha]

Do you really believe the Michigan Legislature will independently write, then vote for, a marijuana legalization bill? What are the political forces that would lead to this happening? What forces are in place to oppose such a change and why would the opposition suddenly lose its power?

 

I just don't see it happening except by voter initiative, in which case, we might as well go for legal like tomatoes, with restrictions on driving while impaired and selling to minors. Much better than some cockamamie 6 plant/1 ounce "legalization." That is simply not legalization.

 

 

"What are the political forces that would lead to this happening?"

 

A little thing called MONEY.

 

What makes any of this happen in Lansing or any other capital???

 

With enough money behind it Michigan could have a 'recreational law' right now... wouldn't count on growing your cannabis next to your tomatoes though.

[greenbuddha]

Do you really believe the Michigan Legislature will independently write, then vote for, a marijuana legalization bill? What are the political forces that would lead to this happening? What forces are in place to oppose such a change and why would the opposition suddenly lose its power?

 

I just don't see it happening except by voter initiative, in which case, we might as well go for legal like tomatoes, with restrictions on driving while impaired and selling to minors. Much better than some cockamamie 6 plant/1 ounce "legalization." That is simply not legalization.

 

Be more than glad to be proven wrong!!!

[Celliach]

Well we will never get full legalization as long as everyone thinks the way you do.

 

Twenty years ago people were saying that we'd never get medical marijuana legal and despite the naysayers we did it.  

 

As long as you think they should impose restrictions  or that's it's OK to impose restrictions you will lose the fight.  In the meantime there are those of us, the same ones that didn't listen when they told us we'd never get medical legal, that are willing to continue to fight for what's right, even if people on our side have given up and won't fight with us.

[greenbuddha]

Well we will never get full legalization as long as everyone thinks the way you do.

 

Twenty years ago people were saying that we'd never get medical marijuana legal and despite the naysayers we did it.  

 

As long as you think they should impose restrictions  or that's it's OK to impose restrictions you will lose the fight.  In the meantime there are those of us, the same ones that didn't listen when they told us we'd never get medical legal, that are willing to continue to fight for what's right, even if people on our side have given up and won't fight with us.

 

Cell, if you're referring to me, please produce the post where I said it was 'OK' to 'impose restrictions' on 'legalization'. Never advocated it or thought it was a good idea.

 

At the very most I believe I said we might have to 'compromise' in order to get some form of legalization.

 

Would love to grow any number of plants in my backyard with NO RESTRICTIONS whatsoever.

 

Do I think you or I will ever be legally allowed to do it... no.

 

But, please, do all you can to prove me wrong... would be great if I'm wrong. Nothing would make me happier.

 

I'm even going to work to prove me wrong.

 

Choi.

[greenbuddha]

Well we will never get full legalization as long as everyone thinks the way you do.

 

Twenty years ago people were saying that we'd never get medical marijuana legal and despite the naysayers we did it.  

 

As long as you think they should impose restrictions  or that's it's OK to impose restrictions you will lose the fight.  In the meantime there are those of us, the same ones that didn't listen when they told us we'd never get medical legal, that are willing to continue to fight for what's right, even if people on our side have given up and won't fight with us.

 

Don't know about you, but I was one of those guys out there collecting signatures for 'medical marijuana' here in Michigan as well as making whatever donations I could come up with.

 

The way you talk I'm going to assume you did the same thing?

[bobandtorey]

I always have and always will support the MMMA as it was written and as it should be followed.

 

But I will also continue to support those people that want to have the right to use MJ for other than medical reasons.

 

There are also all the other 'medical conditions' that people have that LARA and its boards are not going to include on the treatment list... what about those people? Do we let them just be thrown in jail for using a plant that should never have been outlawed?

 

And all of us 'medical' users should remember, it was the 'recreational users' (who out number medical users) that helped us get the right to use MJ medically.

 

And, as IMIUBU said, (I think?) all this talk is going nowhere for us here in Michigan.  A number of other states will have to have the courage to vote in a 'legalization law' before Michigan will ever get around to it.

 

But NONE of us should be surprised if Lansing in the very near future starts to put together a 'recreational use' law that WE (MMJ users, recreational users and the general public) WON'T be ready to deal with.

 

Said about all I have to say on the subject, so it's outside to enjoy the sunshine while it lasts.

 

Choi and peace.

There are also all the other 'medical conditions' that people have that LARA and its boards are not going to include on the treatment list... what about those people?

 

i can answer this one for now IMHO it's mot that hard to get a Medical Card if you take just about any kind of medication so thats how i feel on that one

[bobandtorey]

So you think a 'voter' legalization initiative is likely???

 

Have a time table in mind???  far as i  know that table would be 10 years away

 

And I've been on the planet long enough to know that NOTHING is so preposterous as to be an impossibility.

 

Just months ago none of us would have guessed that the DEA would get out of the way of MJ legalization, and THAT certainly bordered on the preposterous as a possibility if ANY thing did.

 

But then life is always full of surprises, ain't it?

[bobandtorey]

Don't know about you, but I was one of those guys out there collecting signatures for 'medical marijuana' here in Michigan as well as making whatever donations I could come up with.

 

The way you talk I'm going to assume you did the same thing?

 

 

For me it was on thanksgiving day in the D

[greenbuddha]

For me it was on thanksgiving day in the D

 

And if a 'recreational use' voter initiative comes up that I think is a good one, I'll be right back out there again, just like I was with MMJ.

[imiubu]

I still wanna ride in the fire engine

[Celliach]

I was referring to anyone that doesn't think we can get full legalization.  There are/were several people that didn't think we could get it.   When someone says we can't get it, it seems as though they've already given up, and that's fine.  Not everyone is resigned to the same outcome, nor do they want or believe in the same goals.  I'm saying that I'm not discouraged by anyone's pessimism and I'm trying to convince those that don't think we can do this that we, in fact, can.  Instead of saying that we have to give into big government and money, why not stand up and fight for it?  As I said before, twenty years ago a lot of people thought marijuana wouldn't be legal in any way, and here we are now with legal medical marijuana.  As long as there are rules or stipulations on how we can use and grow marijuana, people will be arrested and taken to jail for it.  Why not shoot for a law that would prevent anyone from ever getting arrested for marijuana again? 

 

As far as my activism goes, I've done a lot over the last four years, including running a compassion club.  Before I knew better back in the 80s, I, myself, gave NORML over $5000, and sponsored dozens and dozens of fund-raisers for them.  

[bobandtorey]

And if a 'recreational use' voter initiative comes up that I think is a good one, I'll be right back out there again, just like I was with MMJ.

Oh me too

[bobandtorey]

I was referring to anyone that doesn't think we can get full legalization.  There are/were several people that didn't think we could get it.   When someone says we can't get it, it seems as though they've already given up, and that's fine.  Not everyone is resigned to the same outcome, nor do they want or believe in the same goals.  I'm saying that I'm not discouraged by anyone's pessimism and I'm trying to convince those that don't think we can do this that we, in fact, can.  Instead of saying that we have to give into big government and money, why not stand up and fight for it?  As I said before, twenty years ago a lot of people thought marijuana wouldn't be legal in any way, and here we are now with legal medical marijuana.  As long as there are rules or stipulations on how we can use and grow marijuana, people will be arrested and taken to jail for it.  Why not shoot for a law that would prevent anyone from ever getting arrested for marijuana again? 

 

As far as my activism goes, I've done a lot over the last four years, including running a compassion club.  Before I knew better back in the 80s, I, myself, gave NORML over $5000, and sponsored dozens and dozens of fund-raisers for them.  

 I have given to NORML as well and i am sure many did back in the 70s  and 80s sorry but even the 90s and  Michigan had a Medical Cannabis Law back in the 80s

 

IMHO i think we have a  Medical Marihuana Law now because it was a so called prefect storm 

i am all for any Law about Cannabis and believe that No One Should Go To Jail for A Plant so i don't need to be convince it's the right thing to do 

 

Do you think that both Laws could live side by side that being Medical and full legalization ?

[Celliach]

We won't need a medical law with full legalization.  Anyone could use it for any reason whenever they wanted.....just like spearmint.