We All Need Each Other: A Multi-Faceted Coalition

[bobandtorey]

[Celliach]

That's how we advance as a society, by making our dreams come true.

[bobandtorey]

I do not want to disagree with the Staff here

But if you could tell me how would someone could/would replace the $$ money that Leo would loos if Cannabis would be Legal  for all ?

[Celliach]

I do not want to disagree with the Staff here

But if you could tell me how would someone could/would replace the $$ money that Leo would loos if Cannabis would be Legal  for all ?

 

They aren't making tax money now, there's nothing to lose.

 

You can disagree all you want Bob, as long as you aren't spreading info that could get someone landed in a jail cell.

[greenbuddha]

I was referring to anyone that doesn't think we can get full legalization.  There are/were several people that didn't think we could get it.   When someone says we can't get it, it seems as though they've already given up, and that's fine.  Not everyone is resigned to the same outcome, nor do they want or believe in the same goals.  I'm saying that I'm not discouraged by anyone's pessimism and I'm trying to convince those that don't think we can do this that we, in fact, can.  Instead of saying that we have to give into big government and money, why not stand up and fight for it?  As I said before, twenty years ago a lot of people thought marijuana wouldn't be legal in any way, and here we are now with legal medical marijuana.  As long as there are rules or stipulations on how we can use and grow marijuana, people will be arrested and taken to jail for it.  Why not shoot for a law that would prevent anyone from ever getting arrested for marijuana again? 

 

As far as my activism goes, I've done a lot over the last four years, including running a compassion club.  Before I knew better back in the 80s, I, myself, gave NORML over $5000, and sponsored dozens and dozens of fund-raisers for them.  

 

We are working for the very same thing.

 

No one should be going to jail over cannabis in any form.

 

And we should certainly go for the best pro-cannabis laws we can get... zero restrictions if at all possible. 

 

Someone has to at times play 'devil's advocate'... I did it this time, someone else's turn next.

 

And as I said before, I hope I'm proven wrong about what we finally end up with as a 'recreational use' law.

 

And a genuine 'thank you' to you and everyone else that has helped with making the legal right to use cannabis more and more a reality. 

[greenbuddha]

They aren't making tax money now, there's nothing to lose.

 

You can disagree all you want Bob, as long as you aren't spreading info that could get someone landed in a jail cell.

 

Cell, they (LEO) will be losing money. If cannabis is made legal LEO's cash flow will be decreased when the federal government no longer pays them to do raids and the 'forfeiture' laws will not be bringing in the money it once did.

 

The prison systems / administrative personnel will see less money coming their way because the court / legal structure that processes those people arrested will also see reduced incomes.

 

The court / legal system and LEO have a lot to lose if cannabis is legalized, that's why they are fighting it and that's why we have to stay on top of the situation as much as we can.

 

Just look at how much grief our MMJ law here in Michigan still receives.

[greenbuddha]

I still wanna ride in the fire engine

 

 

The new candy apple red paint is drying right now... and I just got a brand new chrome-plated bell for it.

 

Ring-a-ding ding, Baby.

[Celliach]

Cell, they (LEO) will be losing money. If cannabis is made legal LEO's cash flow will be decreased when the federal government no longer pays them to do raids and the 'forfeiture' laws will not be bringing in the money it once did.

 

The prison systems / administrative personnel will see less money coming their way because the court / legal structure that processes those people arrested will also see reduced incomes.

 

The court / legal system and LEO have a lot to lose if cannabis is legalized, that's why they are fighting it and that's why we have to stay on top of the situation as much as we can.

 

Just look at how much grief our MMJ law here in Michigan still receives.

 

They're already going to lose that money with regulated legalization.

[greenbuddha]

They're already going to lose that money with regulated legalization.

 

But they (LEO) have not lost that money yet.

 

Cannabis hasn't been 'legalized' for it to be 'regulated'.

 

Not here in Michigan anyway.

 

But perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean.

 

Can you be more specific?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Wild Bill]

Cell, they (LEO) will be losing money. If cannabis is made legal LEO's cash flow will be decreased when the federal government no longer pays them to do raids and the 'forfeiture' laws will not be bringing in the money it once did.

 

The prison systems / administrative personnel will see less money coming their way because the court / legal structure that processes those people arrested will also see reduced incomes.

 

The court / legal system and LEO have a lot to lose if cannabis is legalized, that's why they are fighting it and that's why we have to stay on top of the situation as much as we can.

 

Just look at how much grief our MMJ law here in Michigan still receives.

 

Exactly!

 

We are fighting a huge industry, not just the government. When I was raided, in addition to the cash and property that was stolen by the police, I had to pay a lawyer, the court, a drug abuse counselor and do forty hours of community service (slave labor). I was fortunate in the fact that my initial urine test was clean so I didn't have to pay for regular testing.This was for 7 grams of fan leaves. The Justice Department’s asset forfeiture fund was $1.8 billion in 2011.

 

Don't forget the money made from selling urban assault vehicles, helicopters, guns, body armor, spy gadgets, office equipment and God knows what else they buy to persecute us.

 

Police and court salaries, paid informants, clerks, janitors and anyone else who makes a living working for the legal system.

 

And let's not forget the prison industry. Construction of new prisons, guards, office personnel, all of their weapons and gadgets, food service to feed the inmates, medical personnel, prison uniforms and furnishings etc. Oh yeah, I almost forgot the "prison industries" that inmates work in for little to no pay.

 

We have all seen the figures for money wasted on the "war on drugs" but from their perspective it is not waste it is "meat and potatoes".

 

Ever try to take a bone away from a hungry dog?

Edited October 15, 2013 by Wild Bill

[bobandtorey]

They aren't making tax money now, there's nothing to lose.

 

You can disagree all you want Bob, as long as you aren't spreading info that could get someone landed in a jail cell.

OK thanks

IMHO back when this site came to be the founders made it a point to not be  a Legalization site so that is why 

[bobandtorey]

Exactly!

 

We are fighting a huge industry, not just the government. When I was raided, in addition to the cash and property that was stolen by the police, I had to pay a lawyer, the court, a drug abuse counselor and do forty hours of community service (slave labor). I was fortunate in the fact that my initial urine test was clean so I didn't have to pay for regular testing.This was for 7 grams of fan leaves. The Justice Department’s asset forfeiture fund was $1.8 billion in 2011.

 

Don't forget the money made from selling urban assault vehicles, helicopters, guns, body armor, spy gadgets, office equipment and God knows what else they buy to persecute us.

 

Police and court salaries, paid informants, clerks, janitors and anyone else who makes a living working for the legal system.

 

And let's not forget the prison industry. Construction of new prisons, guards, office personnel, all of their weapons and gadgets, food service to feed the inmates, medical personnel, prison uniforms and furnishings etc. Oh yeah, I almost forgot the "prison industries" that inmates work in for little to no pay.

 

We have all seen the figures for money wasted on the "war on drugs" but from their perspective it is not waste it is "meat and potatoes".

 

Ever try to take a bone away from a hungry dog?

Thank you i can agree 

 

Cell needs to take a step back and think about what he may want and what can happen 

IMHO we need to fight for what we have not what we may have 

please don't take my post wrong it's only my opinion 

[greenbuddha]

Exactly!

 

We are fighting a huge industry, not just the government. When I was raided, in addition to the cash and property that was stolen by the police, I had to pay a lawyer, the court, a drug abuse counselor and do forty hours of community service (slave labor). I was fortunate in the fact that my initial urine test was clean so I didn't have to pay for regular testing.This was for 7 grams of fan leaves. The Justice Department’s asset forfeiture fund was $1.8 billion in 2011.

 

Don't forget the money made from selling urban assault vehicles, helicopters, guns, body armor, spy gadgets, office equipment and God knows what else they buy to persecute us.

 

Police and court salaries, paid informants, clerks, janitors and anyone else who makes a living working for the legal system.

 

And let's not forget the prison industry. Construction of new prisons, guards, office personnel, all of their weapons and gadgets, food service to feed the inmates, medical personnel, prison uniforms and furnishings etc. Oh yeah, I almost forgot the "prison industries" that inmates work in for little to no pay.

 

We have all seen the figures for money wasted on the "war on drugs" but from their perspective it is not waste it is "meat and potatoes".

 

Ever try to take a bone away from a hungry dog?

 

Thanks for putting the problem together so well.

 

I think a lot of people don't see the issue as clearly as you have.

 

Thanks again.

[Celliach]

But they (LEO) have not lost that money yet.

 

Cannabis hasn't been 'legalized' for it to be 'regulated'.

 

Not here in Michigan anyway.

 

But perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean.

 

Can you be more specific?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

That's not the point.  The point was made that LEO wouldn't allow it to be fully legal because they would lose money.  However, they will lose money whether it is regulated, or it is fully legal.  I don't understand why LEO's money is part of the debate when that money will be dried up no matter which outcome that we are debating is instituted.

[Celliach]

Thank you i can agree 

 

Cell needs to take a step back and think about what he may want and what can happen 

IMHO we need to fight for what we have not what we may have 

please don't take my post wrong it's only my opinion 

 

Know your limitations, and sure enough they are yours.

[imiubu]

They're already going to lose that money with regulated legalization.

 

How exactly does regulated legalization equate to growing cannabis like tomatoes???

[Celliach]

Exactly!

 

We are fighting a huge industry, not just the government. When I was raided, in addition to the cash and property that was stolen by the police, I had to pay a lawyer, the court, a drug abuse counselor and do forty hours of community service (slave labor). I was fortunate in the fact that my initial urine test was clean so I didn't have to pay for regular testing.This was for 7 grams of fan leaves. The Justice Department’s asset forfeiture fund was $1.8 billion in 2011.

 

Don't forget the money made from selling urban assault vehicles, helicopters, guns, body armor, spy gadgets, office equipment and God knows what else they buy to persecute us.

 

Police and court salaries, paid informants, clerks, janitors and anyone else who makes a living working for the legal system.

 

And let's not forget the prison industry. Construction of new prisons, guards, office personnel, all of their weapons and gadgets, food service to feed the inmates, medical personnel, prison uniforms and furnishings etc. Oh yeah, I almost forgot the "prison industries" that inmates work in for little to no pay.

 

We have all seen the figures for money wasted on the "war on drugs" but from their perspective it is not waste it is "meat and potatoes".

 

Ever try to take a bone away from a hungry dog?

 

All of that money will dry up with regulated or full legalization.  It's a moot point.

[Celliach]

How exactly does regulated legalization equate to growing cannabis like tomatoes???

 

It doesn't.  We are talking about the money generated by law enforcement.

[Celliach]

Do you think law enforcement, and DAs and prisons are going to make a bunch of money off of recreational smokers in Colorado or Washington?

[greenbuddha]

 

That's not the point.  The point was made that LEO wouldn't allow it to be fully legal because they would lose money.  However, they will lose money whether it is regulated, or it is fully legal.  I don't understand why LEO's money is part of the debate when that money will be dried up no matter which outcome that we are debating is instituted.

 

 

"I don't understand why LEO's money is part of the debate when that money will be dried up no matter which outcome that we are debating is instituted."

 

That's the entire point of the issue of LEO / courts losing money.

 

They will be against WHATEVER we attempt to do that is 'pro-cannabis'.

 

They will lose money regardless of which new cannabis laws are put into place.

[Celliach]

"I don't understand why LEO's money is part of the debate when that money will be dried up no matter which outcome that we are debating is instituted."

 

That's the entire point of the issue of LEO / courts losing money.

 

They will be against WHATEVER we attempt to do that is 'pro-cannabis'.

 

They will lose money regardless of which new cannabis laws are put into place.

OK, so if they are against any reform, why not go for the one that works the best for us?  Why limit ourselves?

[greenbuddha]

Do you think law enforcement, and DAs and prisons are going to make a bunch of money off of recreational smokers in Colorado or Washington?

 

Most of the money made off of recreational users in Washington and Colorado is, by law, going to go toward schools, roads and infrastructure... NOT LEO.

 

Perhaps if more of the money is earmarked for LEO, they wouldn't be so firmly against pro-cannabis laws...  MAYBE!

[greenbuddha]

OK, so if they are against any reform, why not go for the one that works the best for us?  Why limit ourselves?

 

 

Ok... I give up... why limit ourselves???

[imiubu]

Celli, I am not trying to cause an argument here... I am only curious what exactly you mean when you say:

 

"...marijuana should be legal the same way that tomatoes are."

 

Like... I can I just get a vending license, set up a little stand and sell my maters & cannabis together? 

Gov't wants their cut always and forever.

I am not an Econ major (or minor ) so, maybe I just don't grasp how this would be feasible...

most likely I still have a bit of 'refer madness' restrictions on my thought process on this subject also. 

 

I am all for the farmers market model, just so that is clear.

Decriminalization over legalization (if I do indeed understand the two terms correctly).

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Do any of you realize that a lot of those little roadside stands selling the great food we grow in Michigan have to have a PERMIT? To sit on the side of a road that we all paid for? The property they grow it on is taxed,they do not get paid for picking their own produce,just count on that little extra bit of money from their own hard work to help squeeze by. Wasn't unfair taxation the REASON our Country was founded? Now we punish people for trying to help themselves.....and make them depend on the Govt. What a scam.

 

Yep, see above ^^

[Celliach]

Most of the money made off of recreational users in Washington and Colorado is, by law, going to go toward schools, roads and infrastructure... NOT LEO.

 

Perhaps if more of the money is earmarked for LEO, they wouldn't be so firmly against pro-cannabis laws...  MAYBE!

 

So the money that LEO is going to fight to save will go away whether we have regulated or full legalization.  That was my point, and why I said that argument was moot in this debate.  

 

The debate was whether we should go for regulated or full legalization.  The argument was LEO, and "the machine" wouldn't allow full legalization because they would lose money.

 

We agree that LEO will lose the money with full legalization, or regulated legalization.  Therefore, the point of LEO's money doesn't really mean anything in whether we go for full or regulated legalization.