Is There An Organic End To Your Mites ? Yes !

[trichcycler]

reincarnation? Not sure how long your harvest cycle is, and if you continue to practice habits conducive to pest infestations while at the same time treating them. I assure you though, bugs that breathe oxygen will die, and will not come back to life in my rooms, or any I've experienced. Perhaps you have other pest issues to address?  Like re infestations, new buggy clones, dogs, cats, unfiltered intakes, etc?  A "crop" should never have been infested in the first place. to "crop" here would put me over weight limits. If pests are attacking more than a couple of your weakest hosts, there are other underlying issues. A few plants can always be culled  if infested. Nobody wants dead spiders and webbing in their medicine, yuck.

 

my c02 "runs" daily, at light on, and maintains 1500ppm's during those times. turning on a c02 generator is not like a spray bomb, more like a suffocation. It should be used as I do for best results.  

We can explore your situation if you like, and hopefully find the culprit(s). I assure you I am not a c02 salesman, and I don't speak lies. I have no dogs in the race against pests, but wish to educate the infected is all.

[Restorium2]

Mites lay their eggs as they die. Egg hatch times vary from 4 to 30 days. Eggs don't need to breath oxygen.

[trichcycler]

eggs do need oxygen. mites and their eggs are aerobic. this is why botanical oils kill them, through suffocation.

Even using the co02 as you suggested is a healthier alternative to commercial pesticides designed for ornamental plants right?

[Restorium2]

Yes, CO2 is a good tool to finish infested plants that are in flower. It works if you keep applying it as the eggs hatch.  CO2 does not kill mite eggs even if you dump a 30 pound bottle in a sealed 8' by 12' room.

[trichcycler]

this is one reason you may have a problem with them. its a matter of biology, not opinion. Mites do indeed need oxygen. I would like you to try a controlled operation within a jar. use a meter, so you can be more accurate than "dumping a "whole" bottle" into a room.

Where is your science showing you "whole bottle" is enough to attain 10000 ppm for a couple hours?

 

eggs need oxygen. spider mites need oxygen or they will die. you can drown them and see for yourself with a micron scope, or remove o2 form the container with c02 and watch the eggs die too.

[Restorium2]

I posted to help other people understand the limitations of CO2. I'm not looking for help right now.

 

The Science: The only thing I left out for your math equation is that the ceiling height is 8' foot.  Do the math. I didn't think it was necessary for me to do it for you.

 

CO2 does not kill all kinds of mite eggs. It kills the mites, then the eggs hatch in 4 - 30 days. That makes it possible to save a crop, but not totally eradicate all the mites/eggs, in a major infestation.

[trichcycler]

Respiration in the egg is carried on through an aeropyle, a system of air passages in the shell (chorion) that enables oxygen exchange with the environment to occur whether the egg is dry or wet.

 

Vitellinemembrane: The cellmembrane of an insect egg is called vitellinemembrane,which is a phospholipid

bilayer that surrouds the contents of the egg cell.

Cytoplasm: The cytoplasm is distributed as thin band just inside the vitelline membrane. The nucleus of the

egg cell lies within the yolk, usually close to one end of the eggs.

Chorion: Inmost insects a protective shell called chorion

covers the egg. Chorion is perforated by many microscopic

pores called aeropyles, which allow gaseous exchange

without much loss of water.

Micropyle: It is a special opening near t

 

Now, ready to rid your garden of mites forever?

[trichcycler]

The only limitations are in the grower's ability to succeed using c02. Its not a no brainer, and I suggest your room is not sealed, OR, your "whole bottle" is not enough to reach 10000 ppm for hours straight, leaving you with survivors. This works man, google it, ask the pros, like I did, and learned the genius in the technique. It may be expensive, and maybe out of reach for some, but it does work, and has worked in gardens for many years. I didn't invent it, neither did the growers who use it here.

 

the size of your bottle definitely is the first point, lack of a meter may be the second . My plants will consume 1500ppm right down to 400 in a matter of a couple hours. You can test this also with a sealed bag, a c02 meter(have one?). I did, others did too. you think they are lying? really?

 

here's the thing. if you believe you can do something, or even if you don't, you're right either way.

 

peace and luck with a majestic garden!

[Restorium2]

I believed it might work until it did not.  The room is sealed.  if you did the math you know the amount of CO2 went way past your prescribed amount.

 

Ask a pro? You just did. Thanks for posting this topic. Live and learn my friend, or die ignorant. CO2 is a great tool but it has it's limitations.

[trichcycler]

and you actually believe that spider mite eggs don't need oxygen. thanks, pro, for your opinions.

you have no c02 meter? how would you know anything of the saturation, leaks, or even plant use over a few hours with

one cracked tank? your results are ambiguous at minimum, and anecdotal. oxygen breathing pests die when there is no oxygen to breathe, I assure you.

[Restorium2]

Mite eggs, at very early stages, do not need enough oxygen to kill them by displacing it how you have described.

[GregS]

When I have grown I used neem. Mixing at the recommended ratio and generously spraying the root balls kept mites away. I understand the stuff is a systemic pest control measure. My plants were initially in plastic cups, then xferred to one gallon pots, and later to 3 or 4 gallon pots. Spraying occurred at each stage when the plants were repotted. At a later time, having become unable to do the work, the individual who helped me out used different methods, to include Mighty Wash which was their treatment of choice, but they were not as effective.

 

I would like to try this again myself to confirm those findings, but my condition limits me. Mobility is a hard thing for me.

Edited November 24, 2013 by GregS

[trichcycler]

Neem Is approved as a soil treatment, and is effective at killing pests there. That's the part that bugged me, I work really hard to propagate the beneficial herds down there, and killing them off didn't seem right to me. After worm farming I learned how to torture a worm, and neem is very effective at this. They squirm and die as if they were burning. Anything killing my worms, is not welcome now. I used neem in my reservoirs when I grow in hydro, with wicked awesome results against all kinds of hydro pests, with no negative results.

 

I am not sure how neem killed mites on buds though. Our plants do not uptake the oils in the form we add them. It would take a long process of composting fresh neem tree parts and then I think so maybe some parts would be absorbed, most likely in a positive outcome. good thought there.

Edited November 24, 2013 by grassmatch

[solabeirtan]

Ok lets look at your proposed scenario, in the kitchen nad with the bottles.  For practical purposes let's say the Kitchen is in the basement, for a minute. Then someone loses their balance and knocks over a full bottle of co2. Chances are the valve will hit something breaking off, this isth  most likely scenario for these types of accidents.

 

Unless it hits the block wall dead on and sticks in it, it will crush everything in its path untill it finds something as hard as the bottom corner of that bottle. Most likely that will be another concrete wall, then it will ricochette, find another and another... till it purges out 140 cu ft of pure co2 throughout the rooom.

 

If you happen to evade the missile like bottle flying around the room, [good luck] you probably will notice it is at least a little harder to breath. As the contents of the atmosphere in the room has just changed from .04% co2 or 16 liters in a room of 12x12x8 to a room with 4000 liters of pure co2 dispersed about. Since it was under pressure it has displaced the two most voluminous gasses Nitrogen and most importantly your Oxygen, as the co2 reaches 13% of the atmosphere:

 

Norm Atmosphere in room |  After displacing the O2 (only)

 

Ni   25470.4768      78.5%                  25470                 78.5%

O₂   6830.8374       20%                      2830.8347         8.5%

Ar      303.3753         1%                          303                 1%         

CO₂   16.3105         .05%                    4016                 12%

        32,621 liters

Room I used was 12x12x8 is 1152 ft/3  = 32621 liters of air in the room

 

Use those Lg bottles with great caution!  The burners too. Is that fire suppresssion you have installed as redundant safety measures?

 

Outside air is 350-400 ppm co2. Inside can get much higher here in MI in the winter. Depending on how many people in the house, etc...

 

Keep your priorities in order. Watch the co2! With friends like this, you could get killed!

[trichcycler]

assume you asking me of redundant controls?  yes, I have fire control/monitoring. I don't use tanks of co2. I'm not sure of the size of these "whole bottles" and "one of those big ones" really is, but trust your numbers, I suck in math. I use a meter, and a little window with a couple real life spiders, or a moth, or even a worm for monitoring. I don't grow inside my home, but in a dedicated outdoor steel building, constructed solely for my craft. My gen hangs unobstructed from the ceiling by a chain, and a wire wrap> It is equipped with a dangle tip switch for shutoff, and is made of steel entirely encompassing the small burners, and the pilot light. I never heard of anyone being concerned with the c02 saturation in a home at a party before, but you are correct, it does rise up quickly. My pilot lite does most of the work honestly, with only a couple cycles daily necessary, automated. always when I enter/leave the room. They burn for a minute or two and shut off. I'm sure mine is not a unique experience, I learned of it from growers and breeders, and have successfully used the technique for years. It's near fool proof, and much safer than your bbq sitting atop of a propane tank. 

 

Nobody is allowed in my rooms but me, and I don't lose my balance. If I had a tank inside it would be mounted to a wall, maybe in a locker or enclosed closet, or even outside of the room. common sense precautions apply to compressed air tanks also, and moms oxygen tank is far more dangerous to cart around. I've never heard of a co2 tank falling over in havoc in a grow room, no doubt it happens. I did see an acetylene tank knocked over in metal shop and it went through the concrete wall to the outside of the building and into the school pool ! no injuries, but a lifelong of lessons.

 

 

Ok lets look at your proposed scenario, in the kitchen nad with the bottles.  For practical purposes let's say the Kitchen is in the basement, for a minute. Then someone loses their balance and knocks over a full bottle of co2. Chances are the valve will hit something breaking off, this isth  most likely scenario for these types of accidents.

 

Unless it hits the block wall dead on and sticks in it, it will crush everything in its path untill it finds something as hard as the bottom corner of that bottle. Most likely that will be another concrete wall, then it will ricochette, find another and another... till it purges out 140 cu ft of pure co2 throughout the rooom.

 

If you happen to evade the missile like bottle flying around the room, [good luck] you probably will notice it is at least a little harder to breath. As the contents of the atmosphere in the room has just changed from .04% co2 or 16 liters in a room of 12x12x8 to a room with 4000 liters of pure co2 dispersed about. Since it was under pressure it has displaced the two most voluminous gasses Nitrogen and most importantly your Oxygen, as the co2 reaches 13% of the atmosphere:

 

Norm Atmosphere in room |  After displacing the O2 (only)

 

Ni   25470.4768      78.5%                  25470                 78.5%

O₂   6830.8374       20%                      2830.8347         8.5%

Ar      303.3753         1%                          303                 1%         

CO₂   16.3105         .05%                    4016                 12%

        32,621 liters

Room I used was 12x12x8 is 1152 ft/3  = 32621 liters of air in the room

 

Use those Lg bottles with great caution!  The burners too. Is that fire suppresssion you have installed as redundant safety measures?

 

Outside air is 350-400 ppm co2. Inside can get much higher here in MI in the winter. Depending on how many people in the house, etc...

 

Keep your priorities in order. Watch the co2! With friends like this, you could get killed!