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CHLORAMINE

Chloramine is a mixture of chlorine and ammonia and is added to public water systems in addition to chlorine. It takes on many chemical forms depending on the mineral content and the pH of the water, monochloramine (NH2Cl), dichloramine (NHCl2, trichloramine (NCl3) and as a group they are often referred as chloramines. In water systems they shift from one form to the other. All three forms are respiratory irritants and tricloramine is the worst.

When chlorine combines with organic matter in the water or elsewhere, disinfection byproducts are formed such as Trihalomethanes (THMs) and to a lesser degree when combined with chloramines. THMs are possible cancer causing byproducts. To remove THM's, disinfection methods such as ultraviolet light or chlorine dioxide must be used. However these have not been studied for their health effects. According to the World Health Organization (WHO) the best way to remove organic matter is first through prefiltration before disinfection.

Note: Water systems often claim they use mono-chloramines. However, these break down relatively quickly in the water system into the other more toxic forms.

Chloramines are not as effective and do not dissipate as easily as chlorine. Chloramines are difficult to remove and cannot be removed by boiling, distilling, standing uncovered or by some reverse osmosis filters. The disinfection byproducts of chloramines (iodoacids) are more toxic than chlorine. Chloramine vapors can accumulate in indoor air (small areas, bathrooms, kitchens, etc.).

There are not a lot of studies on chloramines and how it relates to cancer. However one study found that it causes a type of cancer in female rats. Other studies have shown that it causes reproductive toxicity and reduced reproductivity in mice and hamsters. Chloramines have also been found to cause DNA damage when ingested. For additional information on the known health effects see http://www.chloramine.org/chloraminefacts.htm

Note: Chloramines are not nearly an effective disinfectant as chlorine, "monochloramine is about 2,000 to 100,000 times less effective than free chlorine for the inactivation of E. coli and rotaviruses". Also it does not dissipate easily as compared to chlorine and is difficult to remove.

Not a lot of studies have been done on the skin or respiratory effects. One study does show clear mononuclear cancer in female rats. Another shows reproductive toxicity and reduced reproductivity in mice and hamsters.

See Citizens Concerned About Chloramine (CCAC) http://www.chloramine.org for a more detailed list of health effects.

Note: Chloramine has been banned in Germany, France and most of Europe.

 

Landscaping Problems Associated with Chloramines

Chloramines are highly toxic to fish, amphibians and other aquatic life forms (Note - Canada's EPA has ruled chloramines as toxic). If one overwaters their landscape the water will enter our streams and may cause fish kills. If one has a pond in their landscape it may kill your fish as water from irrigation collects in the pond. Not to mention the runoff from broken water mains that enter our storm sewers and into our rivers and streams. This kills the minnows and crayfish that eat the mosquito eggs and larva aggravating the mosquito problem.

Note: Chloramines can also be formed in the soil when ammonia (from artificial fertilizers, animal waste, pesticides, etc.) is combined with chlorine in the water.

Chloramines make the water acidic which over time can change soil pH. This may result in nutrient tie-up and create yellowing (chlorosis) problems in many plants. Chloramines prevent the absorption of other nutrients which also may lead to yellowing.

The action of chlorine and chloramines kill bacteria both good and bad. Many good bacteria that live in the soil control fungal diseases. When we lose these good bacteria there is no natural control and turf grass diseases like "Brown Patch, Take All and St. Augustine Decline" become rampant. In other words the more one waters, the greater the chance that one will experience disease problems in their grass and other plants.

Chlorine and chloramines kill the nitrifying bacteria that fix nitrogen from the air into the soil. Hence additional nitrogen must be supplied to the plants to replace the loss of free nitrogen from nature.

Container plants (hanging baskets, pots, etc.) are more susceptible to damage from chloramines as they tend to require more watering.

Studies have shown that chloramines hurt the germination of seeds from many species of plants.

Chloramine is neutralized in the soil by reactions with organic matter, destroying it in the process. Organic matter in the form of humus can hold 15 times its weight in water, hence the soil loses some of its ability to hold and store water.

Chloramine hurts the production of compost tea as it kills off some of the microbial species that one is trying to grow to high densities. Note: One teaspoon of humic acid (liquid form of humate) can neutralize the chloramines in 100 gallons of water depending on the exact concentration of chloramines.

Using high humus products like compost, native mulches (that have been composted) and humate in ones landscape is the easiest way to minimize the damage from chloramines and chlorine. This ensures that even if some of the organic matter is destroyed and some of the beneficial microbes are killed, the soil life can quickly regenerate and prevent problems.

Chloramine Removal:

Carbon filters remove this chemical but the filter is used up much faster than for other chemicals and takes much longer to do the job. A special form of carbon, "Catalytic carbon", as it works better than standard carbon (sometimes called Centaur). In other words it will require a larger and more expensive filter to remove it.

Carbon filters remove the chlorine portion of the molecule leaving the ammonia behind hence it requires another stage of filtration such as reverse osmosis to remove it.

Vitamin C filters - For showers this works better than other types at removing chloramines. It takes about 1,000 mg of vitamin C (ascorbic acid form) to remove chloramines from 40 gallons of water.

Reverse osmosis units do remove chloramines as they generally have a couple carbon filters but they often produce large amounts of salt (sodium) in the water which can also cause problems if used to water plants.

Double counter top units work better than single stage filters for drinking water (Cool water must be used for these filters to work effectively).

Note: When chloramines is coupled with chlorine and fluoride the combined negative effects on plant and soil health is much greater.

References

Removing Chloramines from Water, Pure Water Products, LLC.

Citizens Concerned about Chloramine, http://www.chloramine.org/chloraminefacts.htm

Citizens Concerned About Chloramine (CCAC)http://www.chloramine.org

Alternative Disinfectants and Oxidants Guidance Manual, EPA 815-R-99-014,
April 1999

WHO's Guidelines for Drinking Water Quality. PDF 145KB

Wikipedia - Chloramine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/chloramine

Catalytic Carbons Help Remove Chloramine, by Stephen Spotts
Calagon Carbon Corporation

HTG Supplys "Ask The Doc",
http://htgsupplyaskthedoc.blogspot.com/2010/04/tab-water-and-chloramine

"Chloramines Can Kill Your Plants",
http://www.boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/196699-chloramines-can-kill-your-plants

"Water Problems and Ornamental Plants"
http://www.grownotes/com/water-quality-plants

"Watering the Vegetable Garden with City Water"
http://www.veggiegardener.com/watering-vegetable-garden-city-water

The Case Against Fluoride, Paul Connett, PhD, James Beck, MD, PhD and H.S. Micklem, DPhil, Chelsa Green Publishing, Copyright 2010, ISBN 978-1-60358-287-2

 

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You'd think that municipalities are actually adding elements to our water to cause us cancer, crime, and other diseases on society. America kneels for their daily dosages of fluoride, the active ingredient drug  in the majority of antidepressants(Prozac, paxil, etc) .

the scary thing is, as with all other drugs, one dose does not fit all.  How would an adult forced dose of 8 cups of fluoridated water be safe for a child of 6 years old forced to drink the same amount? 

Why does Amerika stand(kneel) for forced medication of all of its city dwellers?

what effect is this having on pubescent children already prescribed the dangerous experimental drugs utilizing the psychotropic effects, both desired and non desired ones, the kind that shoot others at schools?

I read that every school shooter in our country was forced medicated fluoride, by doctors, and then more by municipal water suppliers. Since people that are not given the extra dose do not historically commit mass school murders, could there be a link?  Maybe a big enough one to put a foot up, and stop the kneeling?

 

Detroit spends over 70 thousand dollars per month drugging their residents with this experiment I read. They get it from China, the place that adds melamine to our babies formula every chance it gets. The bags say "Pesticide" "Insecticide", and "some countries like the US add to water supplies ! right on the bags !. I wonder what else is added to this pesticide, since its sold by weight and not for human consumption?  

 

Fluoride is approved by our EPA as a safe and effective pesticide. Citrus fruits, it turns out, are allowed by law to be contaminated with up to 95 parts per million (ppm) of sodium aluminum fluoride, while potatoes are permitted to have up to 22 ppm on the outside skin, and two ppm on the inside flesh. Raisins are allowed to have 55 ppm of the chemical, while romaine lettuce can have up to 40 ppm. But perhaps the worst offender is iceberg lettuce, which is allowed to have a whopping 180 ppm of sodium aluminum fluoride, or 180 times the amount of fluoride typically added to municipal water supplies.

Conventional cereals, which are often made with pesticide-ridden grains, tend to contain high levels of fluoride as well. tests have revealed that the popular breakfast cereal Wheaties, for instance, contains an average 10 ppm of fluoride, while Post Shredded Wheat contains 9.4 ppm. Conventional juices made using highly-fluoridated fruits such as grapes, apples, and cranberries also tend to test high for fluoride as well.

 

One thing I have noticed in my life is this; The folks that pretend these dangers don't exist, drink plenty of city water themselves. They don't believe this drug can even harm them and they don't take precautions to avoid them. I think this tells us that the drug itself is still every bit as effective today as it ever was, at controlling human behavior, brain activity, and common sense. The toothpaste most use says if "more than a pea size ball is swallowed call poison control center immediately". Even the producers couldn't spend enough cash to lobby this warning off of the childrens and adults toothpaste tubes.  There are brands that contain no poison, but most pass these up,....... for some fluoridated reasoning response? 

 

Dentists want fluoride in our diet for the protection of our teeth?  Since when does the medical profession give two shitz about our health, until it fails? we get flouridosis and they give us more fluoride, we get diabetes, and they serve pop in the bed! we get cancer from radiation, and they give us more radiation. fuk that, I'll take my chances without them. good life, good death! no worries. sickest folks I know were always the ones that took the most meds, and saw the most doctors. All died terribly, except the ones that quit the doctor show nonsense.

cut it out or radiate it, that's the best they can offer, still?  like Hyster-ectomy(google that shiit, or frontal lobotomy. sickos I tell you. avoid them at all costs
 

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I read that every school shooter in our country was forced medicated fluoride, by doctors, and then more by municipal water suppliers. Since people that are not given the extra dose do not historically commit mass school murders, could there be a link?  Maybe a big enough one to put a foot up, and stop the kneeling?

I read that every Somali pirate hasn't had fluoride forced on them.  Since people given the extra dose do not historically become pirates, could there be a link?  Maybe a big enough one to put a peg leg up, and stop the deck swabbing?

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When hundreds of millions of people have taken the drug and only a small handful have the reaction you are describing, no, I don't see a connection.  No one who understands causation at all sees a connection.  Tin foil hat wearing stoners on the other hand.....

 

Furthermore, you really see no connection to a lack of medication being the same, in a group of adults over a 10 year period?  Coupled with the fact that no pirate has been apprehended that was medicated with the same drug?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_fallacy

Edited by Petyr
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It also seems like drinking too much chlorinated water would kill off the natural gut flora, leading to illness in some.

Any chlorine would be negated by organic material (i.e. saliva, mucous, etc) long before it got to your stomach.  Now drinking water before we started putting chlorine in it, that will get you sick.  In fact it killed millions and millions of people but then we got microscopes and figured out what was actually going on.

 

But hey, if you guys want to go back to the days of rotting teeth and dysentery, move to Africa.  The rest of us will be over here enjoying the fruits of 19th century science.

Edited by Petyr
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i personally dont like drinking anything toxic. chlorine is toxic. thats why i drink filtered water.

 

however, its important to have clean drinking water.

 

does chlorine affect your gut bacteria? absolutely. ever had chlorine smelling burps/farts after drinking pool water?

is chlorinated water better than getting polio? yes.

 

should we just get rid of all the chemicals in our water and boil everything? yes.

or use ultraviolet light to disinfect water? yes.

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Other countries dont flouridate there water and there teeth and health are much better than ours. They have mcdonalds too. Could this be why when i visit my family in texas and drink well water for a week i feel better? I drink mostly water, a caffiene free pop with dinner... Usually sierA mist or sprite.

Edited by pergamum362
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chlorine outgases very quickly and then evaporates into the air

however once you mix it with ammonium it becomes chloramine... that hangs around much longer to go through longer sections of pipelines.

 

once you bind the molecule to ammonium it becomes very difficult to remove... until and unless it comes into contact with organic materials in the water where it then breaks down the chloramine and as a result makes a group of harmful offgas called THM

 

the thing is.. yes its ok to send the water to the end user with these containment blockers in there... but no as a conscience consumer i don't want to consume those...so i will be removing it from all my water sources as soon as i can...currently i only have a R/O at the kitchen for all my drinking or cooking water...  i don't eat the wrapper my food comes in.. even tho it is designed to keep my food safe and fresh from the point of origin to the point of consumption.

 

funny thing is i have a had a reoccurring face rash for over a decade and could not find the trigger... it may very well be its been triggered by me moving into a home with a municipal water source instead of a well.

Edited by mibrains
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Peace of mind and help understanding the unknown:

 

Is it in there? Could it be making me sick?

 

Do a personal assessment. In the winter months when it is cold out, water treatment uses much less chlorine to purify your drinking water. If your symptoms change with the seasons then it could be the chlorine in the water. If not, then it's probably something else.

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i am not entirely convinced it is the chloramine.

 

it may be any number volatile compounds... many of which some bureaucrat said are at an acceptable level of a containment in my life sustaining water source...

 

no thanks...

 

i drink RO

 

and now after some pretty considerable research...i would like to bath in it too

 

the problem with my face rash is it comes out and inflames at the strangest of times...most likely it is associated with the Gulf war antigens my body was forced to endure.. close government oversight eh? Ha Ha      NOT...

 

i can't pin point any triggers.. we are working on it at the VA but its a long process of elimination... we haven't even gotten to my water source yet :(

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i have... :)

 

thank you.

 

there is many soldiers who were a part of Desert Storm much like myself who also suffer from unexplained rashes.. it is one of many of the "clusters of symptoms" that make up the gulf war syndrome.

 

i have spent years trying to figure it out on my own...

 

different soaps..

different food

tracked stress and anxiety

different laundry methods

ect ect..

 

i am at a loss as to the triggers still to this day...

 

the one thing i have not been able to pursue to the levels i would like to because it is cost prohibitive is the municipal water.

 

it is one major common denominator that i have not been able to fully put to rest with research yet.

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my mom would get terrible rashes from perfumes in the laundry detergent.

it took a considerable amount of time to find detergent without perfumes.

 

i think the problem is that products produced today are scented and flavored with all kinds of chemicals and natural and artificial things we have no idea what they are (and its not listed on the ingredients). every time i walked into a department store the perfume area would make me sneeze. at work if someone comes in with strong perfume it makes me sneeze. do you know whats in perfume? whats in your glade air wick air freshener? what country its made in? what relaxed laws and regulations there are for putting bad things in it?

 

maybe i just got a sensitive nose?

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http://water.epa.gov/drink/contaminants/basicinformation/disinfectants.cfm

 

 

Basic Information about Disinfectants in Drinking Water: Chloramine, Chlorine and Chlorine Dioxide

To protect drinking water from disease-causing organisms, or pathogens, water suppliers often add a disinfectant, such as chlorine, to drinking water. However, disinfection practices can be complicated because certain microbial pathogens, such as Cryptosporidium, are highly resistant to traditional disinfection practices. Also, disinfectants themselves can react with naturally-occurring materials in the water to form byproducts, such as trihalomethanes and haloacetic acids, which may pose health risks.

A major challenge for water suppliers is how to control and limit the risks from pathogens and disinfection byproducts. It is important to provide protection from pathogens while simultaneously minimizing health risks to the population from disinfection byproducts. For more information, see fact sheets on Pathogens and Indicators and Disinfection Byproducts.

What are disinfectants, how are they used, and what are their health effects in drinking water at levels above the maximum residual disinfectant level? Disinfectant (Chemical Abstract Service Registry Number) Definition and uses Health Effects Chloramine (as Cl2) (10599-90-3) Chloramine (as CI2) is a water additive used to control microbes, particularly as a residual disinfectant in distribution system pipes. It is formed when ammonia is added to water containing free chlorine. Monochloramine is one form of chloramines commonly used for disinfection by municipal water systems. Other chloramines (di- and tri-) are not intentionally used to disinfect drinking water and are generally not formed during the drinking water disinfection process. Some people who use water containing chloramine in excess of the maximum residual disinfectant level could experience irritating effects to their eyes and nose, stomach discomfort or anemia. Chlorine (as Cl2)(10049-04-4) The gaseous or liquid form of chlorine (CL2) is a water additive used by municipal water systems to control microbes. It is relatively inexpensive and has the lowest production and operating costs and longest history for large continuous disinfection operations. Chlorine is a powerful oxidant. Some people who use water containing chlorine well in excess of the maximum residual disinfectant level could experience irritating effects to their eyes and nose. Some people who drink water containing chlorine well in excess of the maximum residual disinfectant level could experience stomach discomfort. Chlorine dioxide (as ClO2)(10049-04-4) Chlorine dioxide is a water additive used to control microbes and can be used to control tastes and odors. It rapidly disappears from stored water. Some infants, young children, and fetuses of pregnant women who drink water containing chlorine dioxide in excess of the maximum residual disinfectant level could experience nervous system effects. Some people who drink water containingchlorine dioxide well in excess of the MRDL for many years may experience anemia.

This health effects language is not intended to catalog all possible health effects for disinfectants. Rather, it is intended to inform consumers of some of the possible health effects associated with disinfectants in drinking water when the rule was finalized.

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What are EPA’s drinking water regulations for disinfectants?
In 1974, Congress passed the Safe Drinking Water Act. This law requires EPA to determine the level of residual disinfectants in drinking water at which no adverse health effects are likely to occur. These non-enforceable health goals, based solely on possible health risks and exposure over a lifetime, with an adequate margin of safety, are called maximum residual disinfectant level goals (MRDLG). Contaminants are any physical, chemical, biological or radiological substances or matter in water. EPA sets MRDLGs based on the best available science to prevent potential health problems.

Based on the MRDLG, EPA has set enforceable regulations for disinfectants, called a maximum residual disinfectant level (MRDL), at the following levels:

Disinfectant MRDLG MRDL Chloramine 4 milligrams per liter (mg/L) or 4 parts per million (ppm) 4.0 mg/L or 4 ppm as an annual average Chlorine 4 mg/L or 4 ppm 4.0 mg/L or 4 ppm as an annual average Chlorine Dioxide 0.8 mg/L or 800 parts per billion (ppb) 0.8 mg/L or 800 ppb

MRDLs are set as close to the health goals as possible, considering cost, benefits and the ability of public water systems to detect and remove contaminants using suitable treatment technologies. In this case, the MRDL equals the MRDLG, because analytical methods or treatment technology do not pose any limitation. States may set more stringent drinking water MRDLGs and MRDLs for disinfectants than EPA.

The following drinking water regulations apply to disinfectants and disinfection byproducts:

  • Stage 1 Disinfectants and Disinfection Byproducts Rule (Stage 1 DBP) (December 16, 1998)
    The Stage 1 Disinfectants and Disinfection Byproducts Rule reduces exposure to disinfection byproducts for customers of community water systems and non-transient non-community systems, including those serving fewer than 10,000 people, that add a disinfectant to the drinking water during any part of the treatment process.
  • Stage 2 Disinfectants and Disinfection Byproducts Rule (Stage 2 DBP) (December 15, 2005)
    Stage 2 DBP rule builds upon earlier rules that addressed disinfection byproducts to improve your drinking water quality and provide additional public health protection from disinfection byproducts.

The Safe Drinking Water Act requires EPA to periodically review the national primary drinking water regulation for each contaminant and revise the regulation, if appropriate, based on new scientific data. EPA will include the Disinfectants and Disinfection Byproducts rules in future review cycles.

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How will I know if disinfectants are in my drinking water?
Public water systems using surface water or ground water under the direct influence of surface water are required to maintain a detectible disinfectant residual in the distribution system. When routine monitoring indicates that disinfectant levels are above the MRDL, your water supplier must take steps to reduce the amount of disinfectant so that it is below that level. For chlorine dioxide, water suppliers must notify their customers as soon as practical, but no later than 24 hours after the system learns of the violation. For chloramine and chlorine, water suppliers must notify their customers as soon as practical, but no later than 30 days after the system learns of the violation. Additional actions, such as providing alternative drinking water supplies, may be required to prevent serious risks to public health.

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How are disinfectants controlled in my drinking water?
The following treatment method(s) have proven to be effective for removing chloramines, chlorine, and chlorine dioxide to below their MRDLs: control of treatment processes to reduce disinfectant demand and control of disinfection treatment processes to reduce disinfectant levels.

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How do I learn more about my drinking water?
EPA strongly encourages people to learn more about their drinking water, and to support local efforts to protect the supply of safe drinking water and upgrade the community water system. Your water bill or telephone book’s government listings are a good starting point for local information.

Contact your water utility. EPA requires all community water systems to prepare and deliver an annual consumer confidence report (CCR) (sometimes called a water quality report) for their customers by July 1 of each year. If your water provider is not a community water system, or if you have a private water supply, request a copy from a nearby community water system.

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Other EPA websites

Other Federal Departments and Agencies

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http://iaspub.epa.gov/enviro/sdw_form_v2.create_page?state_abbr=MI

 

Safe Drinking Water Search for the State of Michigan

This search allows you to retrieve Safe Drinking Water data from the SDWIS database in Envirofacts. You may select among four possible search options: water system name, county name, population served, and/or system status.

Disclaimer: Some data may have been entered into SDWIS without a "county served" designation. In those cases, you will either need to search by "Water System Name" (check your water bill for that information), or create a STATE search (click on "Search" button without any other entries), and select your water system from that list.

 

Water System Search

Enter a complete or partial Water System Name. If a partial name is entered, select the "Beginning With" or "Containing" criteria.

 

Water System Name:   Beginning With  Exact Match  Containing County Search

Use the pull-down menu to select the name of the county. EPA does not have county information for all water systems and a search by county may not produce all systems within that county. Only counties with at least one associated water system are listed.

 

County Name:  
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RO water has its own problems. Ro water can potentially strip minerals out of your body. If you are drinking it regularly you should re-mineralize the water. RO water systems create a lot of waste water. Money and resources were spent treating that water which you will be throwing away.

 

Cloramine can be broken down and the resulting clorine and ammonia removed all done with a coconut carbon filter. These filters create no additional waste water. A unit that can filter all the incoming water for your house can be had for a few hundred dollars. The actual RO portion of a RO system doesn't remove chlorine or chloramine. They are removed by the prefilters. The coconut carbon filter will as well as removing VOCs and pharmaceuticals from the water.

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excellent thanks rest..

 

the more i read the more i understand that R/O may not be as necessary as i thought.. well kinda.. but more important is the carbon type filters to remove the chlorine and chloramides.

 

pretty scary stuff when you start reading what it can do..

 

not as scary as the bacterium it kills and the job it performs is of course for sure necessary... but as the end user to my water i think i wana filter it off right before i use it.

 

the whole house is a great option for me i think.

 

thanks

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Make sure if you pick up a whole house carbon filter that the carbon comes from coconut. This carbon is more effective at removing chloramine. Chloramine is more difficult to remove than chlorine. It will wear out the filter faster. To remove chloramine the moecule must be broken down first into chlorine and ammonia. The filter then needs to remove both the resulting chlorine and ammonia. Ammonia in your water is worse than the chloramine you want to remove.

 

I have a whole house filter by Aqua Pure model AP917HD, I think the filter and quick change filter head are about $150. I had the filtered water tested and there was no trace of chloramine, chlorine or ammonia. Detroit adds chloramine to the water supply down here.

 

Aquasana make nice whole house filters as well. They use more stages to extend the life of the more expensive coconut charcoal filter. As a result they run up around $800 and up. If you wanted you could get a cheaper whole house unit from the home improvement stores to use as a prefilter to the Aqua Pure model I listed.

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What about the fluoride?

It may help protect teeth as a topical application, not meant to be ingested.

How were we 'sold' on the idea that fluoride in our water protects our teeth?

 

Chlorine and ammonia mixed together is a huge no no, the gas will kill you if

inhaled even if only briefly. How is this safe to ingest?

 

I have a 98% failure rate growing from seed. I use ph'd municipal water, as it is

very alkaline. I let the jugs set open prior to use. I have never had issue with

any of my house plants using this same water. I did have a fungus gnat issue that

has been corrected. I use pro mix only. I germ my seeds prior to placing in the

cup of pro mix. I follow instructions precisely yet FAIL @ growing cannabis from

seed.

Might my chitty city water be the/a cause for my mega failure @ growing from seed?

Side note, my house plants are almost all from cuttings. I do very well that way.

However, I do not want to have to depend upon a caregiver to provide cuttings for me.

I want my independence darn it! :)

Edited by imiubu
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