Secret Ways To Avoid Marijuana Arrests

[mibrains]

You do way too much editing after you are replied to. I'm done with this circus.

 

all i did was further my explanation.

 

so it made sense.

 

i also included the edited by so it was clear i expounded upon my position..

 

i never changed my position since the first time i said it was the person who made the mistake on the applications fault... 

 

I'm done with this circus.

 

do go away angry just uhm... oh wait.. my other favorite one.. don't let the door hit ya..

[mibrains]

You do way too much editing after you are replied to. I'm done with this circus.

 

all i did was further my explanation.

 

so it made sense.

 

i also included the edited by so it was clear i expounded upon my position..

 

i never changed my position since the first time i said it was the person who made the mistake on the applications fault... 

Edited January 11, 2014 by mibrains

[mibrains]

i apologize rest.

 

let me see if i can clear up my position so you understand what i mean better. i would hate to be responsible for someone making a mistake.

 

so lets do a sorta time line thing..

 

first a patient goes in to establish a relationship with a certification doctor.

 

once the doctor reviews the patients case-file, records and after discussion on the various components of their condition - decides that cannabis can help the person - the doctor signs the application document under the physicians section where appropriate.

- person is now a patient and would have to use section 8 to justify any use of cannabis.

next..

they take that form (and any supporting documents) and drive to the to the post office to mail the package to LARA.

a person could mail your document certified return receipt if it makes you comfortable here...personally i wait until the check is cashed. 

 

the clock is now ticking.

LARA has 15 business days to review the accuracy of your application and approve or deny it.

section 9 b says 20 days later if you have not heard anything from LARA you would move from defending yourself under section 8 to defending yourself under section 9.

 

if you made a mistake or were fraudulent in the course of filling out your application..you could not argue a section 9 defense..  it is up to the applicant to ensure the documents are accurate and correct.

LARA's only responsibility is to verify the data and ensure you are compliant with all the documents in the proper order... thats what we pay them to do...

nitpick and ensure we were diligent filling out the paperwork.

 

if a mistake was made then the person must correct the problems and remail the package to LARA...the patient is still a patient and is qualified to defend themselves under section 8... after 20 days pass from the date LARA receives the "new corrected information/application request" the patient would then go back from section 8 to section 9 protections again.

 

because LARA has not adopted administrative rules governing the procedures for mistaken information as it pertains to the applications they are denying all applications with any type of mistake at this time.

 

however i remind everyone that is precisely what we pay them for.. to verify the accuracy of our application.. not to approve it.

 

after they verify you didn't make any mistakes and were not fraudulent... they issue an identification card which says you are now section 4 compliant... (so long as you remain compliant with the limitations set forth under section 4)

 

section 9 only comes into play.. for instance my first year... it was 10 months from the date they cashed my check to the day i got my card (i think) and i didn't make any mistakes on my application and supporting documentation so i was section 9 compliant the entire time... had i made any mistakes.. whether i knew it or not at the time i would have had to be section 8 compliant.

 

rest..i am sorry if i confused you earlier.. we were somewhat discussing the same thing.. once the persons you mentioned made mistakes on the application and got denied.. they had only section 8 to rely upon..

 

it happened to me.. second year.. i forgot to include my caregiver attestation with a renewing patient... oops..

 

because of section 6 we went from section 8 to section 9 back to section 8 back to 9 then finally to section 4

[bobandtorey]

Thanks for clearing things up  so well i  was never confused as some are still today 

[trichcycler]

I don't understand the question sir, sorry

OK then by him inspiring you and maybe some others is  that why we are where we our today ?

 

[trichcycler]

I've always understood that a valid 21 day mailed and not revoked set of application papers along with the doc rec, OR a card was the only things that protected us from ARREST(not saying prosecution)?  I could have been wrong about that, but sure seemed solid info to me all along. The attorney I visited in the beginning explained it this way, and I saw it the same way. not a bad point to be wrong on if so. 

can you show me the protections offered with only a physicians rec, and no express permission from the state ?

1. See doctor and have card i only disagree with  part  of this one having the Card back in 09 wasn't necessarily needed Doc Rec. and 21 days was as same as a card per Law 1

[mibrains]

I've always understood that a valid 21 day mailed and not revoked set of application papers along with the doc rec, OR a card was the only things that protected us from ARREST(not saying prosecution)?  I could have been wrong about that, but sure seemed solid info to me all along. The attorney I visited in the beginning explained it this way, and I saw it the same way. not a bad point to be wrong on if so. 

can you show me the protections offered with only a physicians rec, and no express permission from the state ?

 

section 8 in it's entirety does not require registration with the state.. it was written this way because of the wording in the initiative...the affirmative defense.

 

it is specifically designed to protect people who fall into that category of not being protected while in the process of registering for protections from arrest under section 4 with LARA... or if they decide to use section 8 as a stand alone defense.

[Restorium2]

When you say that a application is the same as a card after 21 days, the department only has 21 days to deny the application, you lead folks to believe that after 21 days have passed, no matter how f-ed up the application is, it's going to pass. That is not the case. If the application is f-ed up for any reason you were NEVER protected. You had a false sense of protection. Right now there are a large number of applications past 21 days that may or may not cover the patient or caregiver. It depends on the application, not the time passed. If you think that LARA is going to contact everyone who doesn't pass in 21 days you are wrong. They could contact you after you waited for months and tell you that your denied. In that case you went months without real protection. Been there and done that. That's why I say that the application, after 21 days, is not always the same as a card, there are still conditions to meet.

[mibrains]

When you say that a application is the same as a card after 21 days, the department only has 21 days to deny the application, you lead folks to believe that after 21 days have passed, no matter how f-ed up the application is, it's going to pass. That is not the case. If the application is f-ed up for any reason you were NEVER protected. You had a false sense of protection. Right now there are a large number of applications past 21 days that may or may not cover the patient or caregiver. It depends on the application, not the time passed. If you think that LARA is going to contact everyone who doesn't pass in 21 days you are wrong. They could contact you after you waited for months and tell you that your denied. In that case you went months without real protection. Been there and done that. That's why I say that the application, after 21 days, is not always the same as a card, there are still conditions to meet.

 

 

thats NOT true rest - stop tying to scare people.

 

you have protections under section 8 the very minute the doctor signed your recommendation.

 

LARA only verifies information... it is up to the applicant to ensure it is correct.

 

you are protected according to each section of the act as i clearly stated above.

[Restorium2]

I was talking about section 4 on this thread because the title says AVOID ARREST. That's not section 8. Your section 8 comments do not belong in this thread.

[mibrains]

I was talking about section 4 on this thread because the title says AVOID ARREST. That's not section 8. Your section 8 comments do not belong in this thread.

 

 am talking about every section of the act.

 

please don't tell me where my information belongs.. as you so eloquently put it yesterday i am staff.. i am here to help and protect people from misinformation.

 

stop misinforming people please.

 

i simply responded yesterday to you about Bobs response to the 20 day rule (section 9) and how it vacillates between section 8 and 9 depending on what stage your in.

 

do not try to over simplify things.

 

it is what it is.

[mibrains]

section 9 protects you from arrest just like section 4.

 

there i even started a new post so i don't "confuse" you by adding more information to clarify my point using the edit button.

Edited January 11, 2014 by mibrains

[Restorium2]

Facts from real patients;

 

After waiting 5 months an application was denied.

 

That application was never the same as a card. I can prove it with hard copies. You really should take my word on this. I've got no reason to lie about it. No reason to scare anyone.

 

There are patients right now who have waiting for months without a word from LARA. They may still be denigned. It's important for EVERYONE to know this. It's real.

[mibrains]

Facts from real patients;

 

After waiting 5 months an application was denied.

 

That application was never the same as a card. I can prove it with hard copies. You really should take my word on this. I've got no reason to lie about it. No reason to scare anyone.

 

There are patients right now who have waiting for months without a word from LARA. They may still be denigned. It's important for EVERYONE to know this. It's real.

 

 

no kidding rest.

 

they were denied because THEY made a mistake filling out the application.

 

the entire time they waited  after the initial 20 days while still uniformed they were protected from arrest under section 9.

 

right up until they were informed.

 

then they were immediately back to section 8.

 

then after correcting the mistakes back to section 9

 

then hopefully to section 4.

[bobandtorey]

thats NOT true rest - stop tying to scare people.

 

you have protections under section 8 the very minute the doctor signed your recommendation.

 

LARA only verifies information... it is up to the applicant to ensure it is correct.

 

you are protected according to each section of the act as i clearly stated above.

I agree 

The Courts and the prosecutors and Judge's and rulings have made the Law to there way not the peoples

[trichcycler]

I wonder I, if me the cg and my patient sent in a cg attestation and change form, but the patient made an error, and after 21 days I'm not notified by either lara or my patient, (maybe he lost the mail?)  so I start growing for him and providing to him......until months go by without a new card so I call, and find that the patient paperwork has been denied, ......was I protected at all for growing/supplying for him during those unapproved months?

[mibrains]

I wonder I, if me the cg and my patient sent in a cg attestation and change form, but the patient made an error, and after 21 days I'm not notified by either lara or my patient, (maybe he lost the mail?)  so I start growing for him and providing to him......until months go by without a new card so I call, and find that the patient paperwork has been denied, ......was I protected at all for growing/supplying for him during those unapproved months?

 

yes

 

absolutely under section 9.

 

but

 

if challenged by authority you would have to prove section 8 instead of section 4 to the court.

 

thats why section 8 includes caregivers.

Edited January 11, 2014 by mibrains

[Restorium2]

Maybe you were protected, maybe not. That right there makes a card different than an application.

 

It's not just 'lost in the mail' either. LARA played games before and they still are right now. There are patient applications out there way past 21 days and counting. Will they be pass or fail?

[mibrains]

section 9 applies up and until you are informed by LARA

 

however..

 

be aware..

 

if the applicant made a mistake on the application in the beginning... the truth of the matter is you were only protected under section 8 the whole time... you just didn't know it.

[mibrains]

Maybe you were protected, maybe not. That right there makes a card different than an application.

 

It's not just 'lost in the mail' either. LARA played games before and they still are right now. There are patient applications out there way past 21 days and counting. Will they be pass or fail?

 

depends on how accurately they were filled out.

 

do not blame LARA for catching the applicants mistakes...

[trichcycler]

I think the problem missed is the "validity " of the application in the first place. When LARA forgets to inform within 21 days, how do we know our forms were actually valid?  Will LARA testify for us and admit they dropped the ball on a valid form/application I wonder?

the only way to know if a form is valid is to wait for the acceptance by them, resulting in an issued card, I think? 21 days past isn't validating the card and that's a scary part to me. I used to plant at 21 days, but not anymore. I wait for a card before I grow 12 more. I do however provide at day 22, so maybe hypocritical, or just fooling myself? I'd rather be caught up in a provision between two connected people, than 12 plants and no card.

sorry but i am pretty sure bob is correct on this one rest..

 

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28vta2je55yovcvrfk1cdbwb55%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-333-26429

 

MICHIGAN MEDICAL MARIHUANA ACT (EXCERPT)
Initiated Law 1 of 2008

333.26429 Failure of department to adopt rules or issue valid registry identification card.

 

 

9. Enforcement of this Act.

Sec. 9.

(a ) If the department fails to adopt rules to implement this act within 120 days of the effective date of this act, a qualifying patient may commence an action in the circuit court for the county of Ingham to compel the department to perform the actions mandated pursuant to the provisions of this act.

(b ) If the department fails to issue a valid registry identification card in response to a valid application or renewal submitted pursuant to this act within 20 days of its submission, the registry identification card shall be deemed granted, and a copy of the registry identification application or renewal shall be deemed a valid registry identification card.

(c ) If at any time after the 140 days following the effective date of this act the department is not accepting applications, including if it has not created rules allowing qualifying patients to submit applications, a notarized statement by a qualifying patient containing the information required in an application, pursuant to section 6(a)(3)-(6) together with a written certification, shall be deemed a valid registry identification card.

[Restorium2]

There you go. Not all applications are equal. Some get denied and never get approved, even after 21 days. Sometimes it's months. Sometimes LARA finds something in your background that they hadn't seen for years. If it's a felony you were never protected doing things the law says a felon can't do, like being a caregiver.

[mibrains]

I think the problem missed is the "validity " of the application in the first place. When LARA forgets to inform within 21 days, how do we know our forms were actually valid?  Will LARA testify for us and admit they dropped the ball on a valid form/application I wonder?

the only way to know if a form is valid is to wait for the acceptance by them, resulting in an issued card, I think? 21 days past isn't validating the card and that's a scary part to me. I used to plant at 21 days, but not anymore. I wait for a card before I grow 12 more. I do however provide at day 22, so maybe hypocritical, or just fooling myself? I'd rather be caught up in a provision between two connected people, than 12 plants and no card.

 

 

LARA does not forget.

 

what would they need to testify about? that you as the applicant made a mistake on  the form and need to correct it?

 

they get bogged down

 

so.. it is up to the applicant to ensure they filled the paperwork out correctly.

 

then rest assured..

[bobandtorey]

section 9 applies up and until you are informed by LARA

 

however..

 

be aware..

 

if the applicant made a mistake on the application in the beginning... the truth of the matter is you were only protected under section 8 the whole time... you just didn't know it.

And thats why Sec 8 is so important to all of us

[Restorium2]

Obviously mibrains, you and I have had much different life experiences with LARA. We all need to learn from what happened to others and adjust our thinking.