Defoliation: Quickest Way To A Short, Bushy, Stemmy Plant

[pic book]

i ran a side-by-side comparison, but only of two strains:  crushing the hurd, fimming, topping, super cropping and leaf defoliation during veg.   By far, defoliating every 12 days wins hands down.  plants grow wider with more stems and stay shorter than other methods.  i removed every leaf every 12 days, except the pair at the site of new buds.

[I wood]

Are you going for increased fiber content?

[pic book]

i wood:  i was finding which shearing technique best retarded height, best increased width, best increased stemmage and consequently, caused the most bud sites.

Edited January 20, 2014 by pic book

[trichcycler]

interesting, I've always just chopped tops for my bonsai's. Tops clone well and root fast too. 

[I wood]

Sorry, I didn't finish questions due to hungry kids.

Next question would have been have you finished the comparison through flowering?

Thicker stems could lead to bigger harvest, but with fewer leaves might not.

It took me a long time to get good at pruning because to me it seemed counter intuitive to remove the energy producing leaves.

It came down to, prune now for more usable buds or trim lots of low grade fluff later.

Took me a long time to get on board with lollypopping, but glad I did.

[Wild Bill]

Pruning techniques are strain specific to some extent. Some strains respond to LST better than others for instance.

[pic book]

i wood:  in flowering, i defoliate the center any time any shading occurs.  in flowering, as in veg, within 10 days, leaves are back thicker, bigger than before.

[Kingdiamond]

Once my bud sites get established I slowly but surely remove the large shade leafs exposing the lower canopy and the popcorn buds giving me much larger lower buds and another ounce of weight .

[pergamum362]

I remove any leaf thats in the way, on pretty much the sAme schedule as pic, going on 14 different strains now since i first seen the article on this site. Not one hasnt benefited. I top and pick leaves off continuously from the time is has roots right up until harvest.

[Letterhead954]

I have heard from many here that trimming leaves has a beneficial effect on yield, yet Cervantes says not to remove any leaves unless they're at least 50% dead, otherwise the plant will be stressed and produce less. I've seen many such 'opposites' since I started growing. Anyone know why Cervantes would put this in his book, while many of you have the exact opposite experience? I don't know what to believe about this. 

[pergamum362]

Cervantes book is outdated.

[pergamum362]

Well maybe not outdated, but his book contains the basics with a good def guide.

[Kingdiamond]

It works in my garden but I only take the monster shade leafs the majority I let die off as it goes.

[trichcycler]

a quick look in nature shows us no mistakes. Large fan leaves are not mysteriously removed outside until they are dead, dying, or eaten. A few removals can accomplish shading or other horticultural habits, but each leaf is an energy factory with a job to do. If not, it would die and fall off naturally. Cannabis has been cultivated by humans for some 10 ooo years, and there are no tricks to a successful harvest. If there was, it wouldn't be called a trick, but instead would be the way we do it.

Do what works for you in your garden, and Cervantes lives on!!    I sure would like to see an outdated piece of information in his bible. The only one I located was the "changing the sex of a seed" nonsense. the remainder is solid information that has afforded me 100% successful growing since the beginning. Thank you Jorge !

I have heard from many here that trimming leaves has a beneficial effect on yield, yet Cervantes says not to remove any leaves unless they're at least 50% dead, otherwise the plant will be stressed and produce less. I've seen many such 'opposites' since I started growing. Anyone know why Cervantes would put this in his book, while many of you have the exact opposite experience? I don't know what to believe about this. 

[mibrains]

well

since i posted that article last year? i think it was.. i have done some considerable thought driven research.

 

it makes perfect sense that by stressing the cannabis plant when removing the fan leafs, that it would benefit the plant in the end.

 

i think the plant is much like you or i.. it does not have a central nervous system so no brain no pain.. however it does have primitive organs and a circulatory system.

when you remove a main production center such as a large fan leaf the plant immediately "senses" it and goes into panic mode..

 

it was not expecting to loose a leaf.. (not that the term expecting is proper here since there is no brains ) but the point is.. it stresses the plant and the plant responds..

the reason it reproduces the fan leaves is because it needs them to make sugar out of light.. C6H12O2.. glucose.. from light..

 

the part we save and cherish (the fruit) is actually not the production center of the plant... but more like the sales department.. everybody sees that part but few understand the complexities of the "factory" behind the doors..

 

anyways.. if you stress the plant by removing the fan leaves it makes sense the plant would flood its entire circulatory system with additional hormones and respond in favor as it applies to fruit production..

 

weak strain heritage would suffer the most from this technique... it is assumed a strains heritage would play a significant role in this system as well as the environment the plant is living in..

i feel like i do understand the science behind the plants ability to produce the hormones that repair its damaged sections (stop bleeding) as well as replace the damaged production facility within itself (regeneration) or more specifically relocation..

 

thats precisely why i lolipop these days..

 

it makes all the energy for the plants production center rise to the top canopy... 

i always leave the main fan leaf thats under the stems i choose to leave in place.. to remove that fan leaf (as indicated in this process of defoliation) will cause the plant to attempt to regrow it right where it was.. so i choose to leave certain key leaves in place and remove all the others thereby "forcing" the plant to make leaves up top and not down low...

 

by balancing the number of leafs and fruit sites in the canopy it seems to have significantly increased the happiness factor of my plants..

 

great discussion everyone...

 

its fun to read about all the experiences folks are having after posting that article...

Edited January 21, 2014 by mibrains

[pic book]

i have not seen much effect on yield in a plant due to defoliating during flowering, certainly not an extra ounce whereas...

 

i have seen naturally lanky plants--like subcools Qleaner--change shape from a 14 foot skinny stalk to a rounded 8 foot bush 50% wider due to defoliating.  That's the value for me of defoliating; create the short, bushy stemmy creation that spreads the canopy laterally and prevents going tall and jamming itself up against the ceiling.

Edited January 21, 2014 by pic book

[trichcycler]

14 foot !!! in Michigan ?

[pergamum362]

Ive gotten almost the same conclusion, but it equates out to more yield and an overall better quality. Shorter wider, more bud sites closer together, buds all mature at about the same time.

[pic book]

14 foot !!! in Michigan ?

in a greenhouse

[Wild Bill]

14 foot !!! in Michigan ?

 

Sure! My friend grew some from Colombian Red seed back in the 70's and we could reach out his second story bedroom window and clip the tops. (pre indica dominant)

[trichcycler]

oh I know it's possible, but now, for five patients, seems like overkill risky.

[Kingdiamond]

Back in the 70s my buddy grew a plant outside of his back bedroom window it got so tall you could actually see the top over the roof from the road that thing had to be 15 foot tall or so.

[pic book]

oh I know it's possible, but now, for five patients, seems like overkill risky.

indoors, Qleaner struggled to yield 3/4 oz.  i re-vegged them 6 weeks and put in greenhouse, they became totally diff plants in sun and monsters for yield,

[trichcycler]

I grew a pack of subs Qleaner last year. I thought it was a small plant also, but they all gave me around 2 zips when dry with one topping. I vegged for 45 days, topped at day 38, plant was 19 inches tall, then 28 when finished. I'm digging some more beans out now, thanks for the reminder!  yummy !

[pic book]

The results in veg of defloliation amazed me.  i had so often read that removing the factories of the plant had to harm or at least make its growth stumble.  So how amazed i was when the defol vegges beat the topped, fimmed plants alongside, coming back re-leafed within seven days. and with thicker stems and lots bushier than the side-by-sides of the same strain.  

in hydro in soil, no special nutes or foliar spray is needed, altho a grower named sara finds it necessary to do both in her organic grow.  I find that healthy plants bounce back better than before with just the veg nutes in the res at 750 ppm and 24 hr recirc.  
By the way, trimming the plant makes me feel like a barber, as the leaves fall to the floor as i snip away.

A farmer?  Your honor, I'm a barber, of very sticky hair.