Raids In Grand Rapids?

[t-pain]

maybe i was too hard on you grassmatch. 

[trichcycler]

I still got the love for ya man, no thing at all. I appreciate your opinions. I know my posts come off that way sometimes, but really I'm just exploring the angles, trying to see clearly, saying what others might not, and sometimes with a tongue in cheek even.

 

 

maybe i was too hard on you grassmatch. 

[trichcycler]

I wish dispensaries weren't a dividing point, for some, even me. I imagine a great system of us supplying them, and those patients who need grams at a time will have a great variety to choose from, without their hassle of finding a suitable cg. I can see a place where we as cg's can go to acquire new genetics, seeds, and meet like minded people. I know we would be there on the Freaky Fridays when we can gift our wares with a meet and greet.

I harbor no ill will for the enterprising nature of the dispensary, but still on the fence with the legality/poor representation portrayed by some.

 

peace

[Highlander]

I wish dispensaries weren't a dividing point, for some, even me. I imagine a great system of us supplying them, and those patients who need grams at a time will have a great variety to choose from, without their hassle of finding a suitable cg. I can see a place where we as cg's can go to acquire new genetics, seeds, and meet like minded people. I know we would be there on the Freaky Fridays when we can gift our wares with a meet and greet.

I harbor no ill will for the enterprising nature of the dispensary, but still on the fence with the legality/poor representation portrayed by some.

 

peace

 

I wish the same peace between patient-growers and CG-growers and dispensaries.  But time and time again we have seen the dispensary lobby throw home grows under the bus in the name of fire safety, mold safety, chemical safety...and if you look at the recent effort in Cali to legalize MJ, you'll see that dispensary interests gave big bucks to try to prevent open legalization. 

 

The problem is pretty simple....it comes down to profit in health care.  As long as there is unmitigated profit potential in some aspect of health care, financial interests of the power/money-hungry few will override the desires of the destitute poor and sick.  When your car is "broke down" you can shop around for solutions...but when your grammama is in the emergency room, you'll sign on the dotted line to pay for any needed treatment - whether covered by insurance or not.  So these "end-of-life" decisions tend to sap personal equity.

 

Right now in MI, we have many CGs supplying as low as $5/gram.  If we relinquish control of the MMJ supply to big business, we'll be lucky to have MMJ at $10/gram.  And at that point, we'll be looking at shoveling BIG profits to a select few suppliers.  So MMJ will walk hand-in-hand with big pharma.  And the more $ we give to big business, the more leverage big business has against us, and the higher the price they can charge. 

[Norby]

I'm not trying to add insult to injury, but if you had good meds to sell to patients, where did those good meds come from?  Caregivers?  And did you make any attempt at all to connect CGs with patients?  Or did you simply buy overages from caregivers and sell those meds to patients at twice the price?  You seem to say that you encountered patients who could not find good CGs but if you/your business had good meds that came from CGs, then you were able to find good CGs, right?

 

We seem to see in the MMJ community that pro-dispensary folks like to say that there is a shortage of good CGs...yet the same dispensary folks seem to have no trouble finding meds to sell to patients.  So it really isn't a problem of lack of supply of good meds...it comes down to the individual patient's lack of connections to find a good CG.  And it is at least a little shameful that a patient would need to pay twice the price at a dispensary instead of finding that connection.

Some caregivers won't take a patient or will kick them out if they only buy 1/4 -1/2 a month.  And caregivers can only supply 5 people.  I'd say there is a lack unless all of them are good.  How do you expect it to work?  the cg to supply the meds for free or the dispense to take donations to stay open?

 

I completely don't understand why dispensaries are a dividing point.  It's the same as gay marriage, guns, and MJ.  You don't have to go into one if you don't want to.  Everyone can type in caregivers on the net and find one if they want.  Some people don't want.  People can find caregivers selling for cheap on craigslist if they want also.  Why someone would be "against" dispensaries is beyond me, unless of course politicians pit us against each other by controlling selling and growing rights, of course.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Norby

[Highlander]

Some caregivers won't take a patient or will kick them out if they only buy 1/4 -1/2 a month.  And caregivers can only supply 5 people.  I'd say there is a lack unless all of them are good.  How do you expect it to work?  the cg to supply the meds for free or the dispense to take donations to stay open?

 

I completely don't understand why dispensaries are a dividing point.  It's the same as gay marriage, guns, and MJ.  You don't have to go into one if you don't want to.  Everyone can type in caregivers on the net and find one if they want.  Some people don't want.  People can find caregivers selling for cheap on craigslist if they want also.  Why someone would be "against" dispensaries is beyond me, unless of course politicians pit us against each other by controlling selling and growing rights, of course.

 

"Some caregivers won't take a patient"  Yes "some"  But I've yet to meet a patient who can't find a CG.  You mention people finding CGs selling on craigslist.  Have you read craigslist lately?  100 CGs seeking patients for every one patient seeking a CG...and many CGs still offering free meds.  So where is this shortage of CGs that people keep using as a justification for dispensaries?

 

"the cg to supply the meds for free or the dispense to take donations to stay open?"  I don't understand what you mean by this.

 

 

Dispensaries are nothing like gay marriage.  What we are talking about is people who are willing to break the law to make piles of cash...people willing to throw an individual's grow rights out the window in order to make a buck.  Have you read the news out of Cali regarding the failed prop 19?  How dispensaries and related interested opposed prop 19?  Have you read how, right here in MI in Ypsilanti a dispensary owner supported a limitation on local cannabis businesses and openly spoke out against home grows?  Maybe if you do this reading, you'll understand why dispensaries are such a dividing point.

 

Think about this for a minute.  As soon as you allow an unlimited amount of money to be made, big businesses will try to corner the market.  That is what happened with pharmaceuticals.  Why do you think cannabis will be different?  It won't.  We have already seen this in California, Colorado, Washington, and right here at home in Michigan. 

Edited February 15, 2014 by Highlander

[Wild Bill]

someone has to get medicine to the patients.

 

while a lot of us are scared of the supreme court, theres a few brave souls out there.

or do you think they should wait for lara to give their 'approval' for patients to get medicine from other people?

 

braver than me anyways.

 

Getting meds to patients is one thing but setting up in a storefront seems imprudent at this point. It's not a matter of being afraid of the Supreme Court it's a matter of being arrested.

 

The Supreme Court has ruled that transfers outside the registry are not protected. Lara can't give approval unless the legislature acts.

[Wild Bill]

and wild bill... yes i knew the risks as i just stated.

 

I'm sure you knew the risks, I was curious as to why you would engage in the business knowing that you would probably be arrested.

Was the money that good?

[Restorium2]

Right. Why not just help patients? You don't need a store to do that. Pretending you had to have an illegal store to help people is sad. You had an illegal store because you knew you could make a lot of money selling to anyone who came through the door. Of course people will be lazy and not do it the right way if you provide a way for that. One could say you did patients a disservice because you didn't help them do the right thing.

[trichcycler]

In fairness, the op only was employed at a dispensary, maybe not the owner or developer. He maybe was supporting a family and found it difficult to find gainful employment with thc in his body? 

 

"oh these poor patient could not find their supply" .is a bit strong, but being one of those cg's who cannot register a patient using 1/4 ounce per month, I understand.

If I was new to the scene, and previously did not us cannabis or know anyone who did, I would definitely patronize a dispensary for my supply, until I located a cg, hopefully at the dispensary.

[Restorium2]

In fairness, the op only was employed at a dispensary, maybe not the owner or developer. He maybe was supporting a family and found it difficult to find gainful employment with thc in his body? 

 

"oh these poor patient could not find their supply" .is a bit strong, but being one of those cg's who cannot register a patient using 1/4 ounce per month, I understand.

If I was new to the scene, and previously did not us cannabis or know anyone who did, I would definitely patronize a dispensary for my supply, until I located a cg, hopefully at the dispensary.

That would make sense if they were LEGAL. Nothing makes sense when you open an obviously illegal STORE right out there in the public eye. That's just nuts. That's more nuts than selling on Craigs List. Edited February 15, 2014 by Restorium2

[t-pain]

The Supreme Court has ruled that transfers outside the registry are not protected. Lara can't give approval unless the legislature acts.

nothing is stopping lara from creating an online instant caregiver change form, which would then make people working at a dispensary able to be caregivers to any number of people per day for $10 each paid to lara on the internet.

 

except for lara itself and its prohibitionist ways.

 

i like the dispensaries because without those, the atty general and senators and police set their sights on patients themselves. not to mention city councils and city ordinances. remember they spent all that time on ordinances for dispensaries? now that the supreme court handled that, what do you think city ordinances will try next??? ter beek stopped an outright ban, but the supreme court left it open to try to regulate it some other way that does not conflict with the act.

 

you think you've seen the last of the city ordinances?

[Restorium2]

nothing is stopping lara from creating an online instant caregiver change form, which would then make people working at a dispensary able to be caregivers to any number of people per day for $10 each paid to lara on the internet.

 

except for lara itself and its prohibitionist ways.

 

i like the dispensaries because without those, the atty general and senators and police set their sights on patients themselves. not to mention city councils and city ordinances. remember they spent all that time on ordinances for dispensaries? now that the supreme court handled that, what do you think city ordinances will try next??? ter beek stopped an outright ban, but the supreme court left it open to try to regulate it some other way that does not conflict with the act.

 

you think you've seen the last of the city ordinances?

Instant? How are they going to check for possible felonies then? I'm all for it if it made sense though.

 

You think that dispensaries are somehow providing cover for us that do not use them?

 

I think they stir the pot and get legislators involved when they would have left us legal folks alone.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Restorium2

[t-pain]

i mean the act says lara has to issue a caregiver card. it doesnt say the card has to be plastic.

with the instant online caregiver system, we wouldnt need 4271.

cards could be printed off , instantly with your printer, just like you can print your auto insurance.

police can still verify the numbers via lara/lein.

 

why did lara even make plastic cards? they could have sent paper ones in the mail. save a few $$$$

[Restorium2]

i mean the act says lara has to issue a caregiver card. it doesnt say the card has to be plastic.

with the instant online caregiver system, we wouldnt need 4271.

cards could be printed off , instantly with your printer, just like you can print your auto insurance.

police can still verify the numbers via lara/lein.

 

why did lara even make plastic cards? they could have sent paper ones in the mail. save a few $$$$

What good would a card you could print with your printer do? Wipe you arse?

[t-pain]

Instant? How are they going to check for possible felonies then? I'm all for it if it made sense though.

well , for caregivers who have already been approved or who already have patients registered. do they do a cg background check every time a cg adds a patient?

 

 

 

You think that dispensaries are somehow providing cover for us that do not use them?

 

I think they stir the pot and get legistors involved when they would have left us legal folks alone.

 

i didnt say dispensaries were good for all things. just in the manner that they act as a distraction from us.

when they try to corrupt our law in the legislature, thats bad, obviously.

 

i agree, adding a money making venture into marijuana is bad.

but the black market is here, and will always be with us until marijuana is legalized.

marijuana is already monetized, dispensary or black market or cgs selling on craigslist to patients.

closing all dispensaries wont stop that.

[bobandtorey]

nothing is stopping lara from creating an online instant caregiver change form, which would then make people working at a dispensary able to be caregivers to any number of people per day for $10 each paid to lara on the internet.

 

except for lara itself and its prohibitionist ways.

 

i like the dispensaries because without those, the atty general and senators and police set their sights on patients themselves. not to mention city councils and city ordinances. remember they spent all that time on ordinances for dispensaries? now that the supreme court handled that, what do you think city ordinances will try next??? ter beek stopped an outright ban, but the supreme court left it open to try to regulate it some other way that does not conflict with the act.

 

You think you've seen the last of the city ordinances? No i feel the same the War on patients and caregivers is not over and if the Unite .States  A.G makes Cannabis down to a 2 or 3 the new Law that we have from Jan 3 2014 will fall right into the hands of our Government 

[Restorium2]

well , for caregivers who have already been approved or who already have patients registered. do they do a cg background check every time a cg adds a patient?

Yes they do have to check every time. There are people committing felonies every day. You have to look at these things from more than just your own point of view.

[t-pain]

get legislators involved when they would have left us legal folks alone.

 

you're crazy if you think legislators would have left us alone if not for dispensaries.

 

sen jones had the anti-glaucoma bill. whats that got to do with dispensaries?

the outside enclosed roof bill, dispensaries?

driving plants around? dispensaries?

driving with trunk or case? dispensaries?

bonafied doctor ? hows that do with dispensaries? doctor mills yes , maybe dispensary doctor mills? nothing about bonafied limits a dispensary from having a doctor make bonafied certs.

 

honestly i dont even remember a bill thats specific to dispensaries. every bill has been about patients and cgs so far.

one or two about stealing mmma funds for republican nonsense.

0660 ? heh.

[Restorium2]

but the black market is here, and will always be with us until marijuana is legalized.

Decriminalized would work. Legalization will not stop the black market. Decriminalization re defines the black market as just 'The Market'. Ahhh, just the thought of it makes me smile.

[t-pain]

Yes they do have to check every time. There are people committing felonies every day. You have to look at these things from more than just your own point of view.

 

nothing in the law i see mentions background checks.

the definition of caregiver is where it says a caregiver cannot be a felon. so i'm guessing if a felon registers as a caregiver and they find out hes a felon, they revoke his card. just like they did when the felon stuff was added in 2012. the form will have the list of felonies on it and if he signs that he didnt have a felony, well... then its falsified and hes not protected.

 

hey i could be wrong

[t-pain]

Decriminalized would work. Legalization will not stop the black market. Decriminalization re defines the black market as just 'The Market'. Ahhh, just the thought of it makes me smile.

 

you are correct. but decriminalization and legailzation are both messed up terms now i think you'll agree.

how can 'decrim' mean posession of 1oz only on private property in some cities? thats not decrim.

Edited February 15, 2014 by t-pain

[Restorium2]

you're crazy if you think legislators would have left us alone if not for dispensaries.

Oh sure, you will always have the haters. Illegal Pot Stores give the haters a tiny bit of credibility with some that would have turned the other cheek.

[Restorium2]

you are correct. but decriminalization and legailzation are both messed up terms now i think you'll agree.

how can 'decrim' mean posession of 1oz only in some cities? thats not decrim.

That's just fake local decrim. Anything done local is just a farse. Just change the State and Federal Laws a little bit and bingo, people quit going to jail for it and we all live happily ever after. Couldn't get rich off it anymore. The best kept secret about cannabis is that you never got rich off of it anyway. It's very rare to get rich off of pot. It's an urban myth.

[Norby]

"Some caregivers won't take a patient"  Yes "some"  But I've yet to meet a patient who can't find a CG.  You mention people finding CGs selling on craigslist.  Have you read craigslist lately?  100 CGs seeking patients for every one patient seeking a CG...and many CGs still offering free meds.  So where is this shortage of CGs that people keep using as a justification for dispensaries?

 

"the cg to supply the meds for free or the dispense to take donations to stay open?"  I don't understand what you mean by this.

 

 

Dispensaries are nothing like gay marriage.  What we are talking about is people who are willing to break the law to make piles of cash...people willing to throw an individual's grow rights out the window in order to make a buck.  Have you read the news out of Cali regarding the failed prop 19?  How dispensaries and related interested opposed prop 19?  Have you read how, right here in MI in Ypsilanti a dispensary owner supported a limitation on local cannabis businesses and openly spoke out against home grows?  Maybe if you do this reading, you'll understand why dispensaries are such a dividing point.

 

Think about this for a minute.  As soon as you allow an unlimited amount of money to be made, big businesses will try to corner the market.  That is what happened with pharmaceuticals.  Why do you think cannabis will be different?  It won't.  We have already seen this in California, Colorado, Washington, and right here at home in Michigan. 

And we are seeing it right now with you people who are against dispensaries.  Which came first the chicken or the egg?

Have you tried to ask a caregiver, posing as a patient, if they would take on a patient at a 1/4 a month?  Wonder if any of those ads would take a patient like that.  Maybe the patients aren't looking anymore because no one would take a 1/4oz patient? 

All I can do is fight for my and other patients rights, which include homegrows AND dispensaries.

Gay marraige is the same.  There are people who oppose it and would work on as many laws to keep them from working(you know you can still be fired in MI for being gay?).  Being a caregiver is working.  Lot better analogy then you thought huh?

Then it's a war against dispensaries taking over.  I for one, will not throw patients under the bus just because callton and some dispensaries did.

 

And if they are still giving free meds then your supporting people selling outside the mmmp, make up your mind.  The reason there are so many caregiver looking is because of the dispensary bill so they can get their counts up to sell to the dispense so they can double the price.  Carergivers aren't lily white and doing this just fore the care part either.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Norby