Acidic Forms Of Cannabinoids Reduce Nausea And Vomiting

[in vivo]

 

 

Conclusions and Implications

Compared with cannabidiol, CBDA displays significantly greater potency at inhibiting vomiting in shrews and nausea in rats, and at enhancing 5-HT_1A receptor activation, an action that accounts for its ability to attenuate conditioned gaping in rats. Consequently, CBDA shows promise as a treatment for nausea and vomiting, including anticipatory nausea for which no specific therapy is currently available.

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/232810260_Cannabidiolic_acid_prevents_vomiting_in_Suncus_murinus_and_nausea-induced_behaviour_in_rats_by_enhancing_5-HT(1A)_receptor_activation/file/9c960526697cee81c4.pdf

 

 

 

Conclusions and Implications

THCA potently reduced conditioned gaping in rats and vomiting in S. murinus, effects that were blocked by SR. These data suggest that THCA may be a more potent alternative to THC in the treatment of nausea and vomiting.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bph.12316/abstract?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false

 

 

If you're attempting to control nausea and vomiting you might want to try utilizing the acid forms of cannabinoids. Tread lightly with juicing, at least initially. There appears to be some potential for selective COX-2 inhibition and complications for those with IBS.

[Restorium2]

Hmm. This runs contradictorily to patient results that I have seen.

 

For instance; There's nothing like burning a roach to get rid of nausea and reduce cycling vomiting. It's almost instant, which is what it so valuable for this use.

 

I sometimes wonder why the studies are so disjointed from what we already know. It's frustrating to read about resources used to do a study that goes against the grain like this. They really need to pay attention to some patient testimony before they throw the spaghetti against the wall. If they really want us to get away from smoking it then they should find a way to mimic that which works, not go directly against it.

[in vivo]

I'm not so sure that this is contradictory to anecdotal reports. There's a group promoting the acidic forms of cannabinoid use for a variety of ailments. I was initially skeptical. I was under the impression that they're primarily COX enzyme inhibitors, but my research over the past few days has enlightened me to my ignorance. There appears to be much more going on and very little is known about their metabolites. It appears that many of us may be missing out on their potential value in a range of treatments. This being one of them. 

 

That doesn't exclude CB1 agonists as additional forms of treatment. 

 

More info can be found here:

http://files.iowamedicalmarijuana.org/petition/2012/Izzo_2010.pdf   

[jointedone]

Juicing would kill the guts I have left. Fruits and veggies are my enemies. That's why I use the hard candies. They dissolve slowly so I can get it into my bloodstream before it hits my ostomy. Smoking or vaping are the fastest ways to get it into my system. But then I am stoned. So the candies really help. Just my own experience.

[in vivo]

It's possible to skip the decarboxylation process and consume whatever form of concentrate you wish. Assuming it's fresh it should be high in THCA, most likely.

[Restorium2]

^^Link doesn't work.

 

A 'group' is promoting THCA? Do they have some nausea patients in it? Did they try a roach?

 

I just went and checked with my cycling vomiting patient and she said I was dead on. The roach wins hands down as the best cannabis product for it. I doubt that's there is much THCA in it. I'm not a big vomitter, but when I do have the urge, THCA isn't what works for me either. Just reporting from the front lines.

[Restorium2]

Juicing would kill the guts I have left. Fruits and veggies are my enemies. That's why I use the hard candies. They dissolve slowly so I can get it into my bloodstream before it hits my ostomy. Smoking or vaping are the fastest ways to get it into my system. But then I am stoned. So the candies really help. Just my own experience.

My cycling vomitting patient uses what you call 'stoned' to go to sleep and further recover.

[in vivo]

That's pretty much my biggest issue with this community as a whole. Everybody puts too much trust in themselves, not enough in others, and especially none in science. If you don't have anything useful to add kindly go smoke your roach.

 

http://files.iowamedicalmarijuana.org/petition/2012/Izzo_2010.pdf

[Restorium2]

That's pretty much my biggest issue with this community as a whole. Everybody puts too much trust in themselves, not enough in others, and especially none in science. If you don't have anything useful to add kindly go smoke your roach.

 

http://files.iowamedicalmarijuana.org/petition/2012/Izzo_2010.pdf

20 years of vomitting makes one an expert, as much as you would hate to admit that. She's the expert and you can't take that away from her with science my friend.

 

I'm sorry you have an issue with the very people who need your help the most.

 

I'm not a morning smoker so the roach will have to wait.

[jointedone]

Oh,I LIKE being stoned,but the candies are for when I have to go out and during the night. I have been able to cut my Zofran 4 mg from 4 to 2 per 24 hrs.. And I do not vomit in my sleep anymore. It isn't just the puking,it's the nasty dizzy creepy feeling you get from being nauseated.

[Restorium2]

Oh,I LIKE being stoned,but the candies are for when I have to go out and during the night. I have been able to cut my Zofran 4 mg from 4 to 2 per 24 hrs.. And I do not vomit in my sleep anymore. It isn't just the puking,it's the nasty dizzy creepy feeling you get from being nauseated.

Yes. My expert says the same thing. Sometimes she has to lay flat on the floor to get that dizzy, spinning feeling to stop.

[in vivo]

I have no issue other than what appears to me your narrow mindedness. I never claimed that CB1 agonists aren't potential forms of treatment. Quite the opposite. If you want to come in and discuss potential flaws in the study, discuss your failed use of acidic forms of cannabinoids, or in any way add to the discussion other than to boldly state that based on your experience with one person that any and all other data is inaccurate, that would be welcomed.

[in vivo]

I'm sick of the dogma and I'm here to replace it.  

[Restorium2]

I have no issue other than what appears to me your narrow mindedness. I never claimed that CB1 agonists aren't potential forms of treatment. Quite the opposite. If you want to come in and discuss potential flaws in the study, discuss your failed use of acidic forms of cannabinoids, or in any way add to the discussion other than to boldly state that based on your experience with one person that any and all other data is inaccurate, that would be welcomed.

Assumptions abound from the mouth of said scientist. You simply have no idea of what you are talking about when you point fingers and assume what is beyond your grasp to know. You have no idea of my life experiences with cannabis and assume I live under a rock with one patient.

 

I truly have no animosity for you and your work. Cannabis loves your attention. Patients too. Thanks.

[Restorium2]

I'm sick of the dogma and I'm here to replace it.

I'm sick of science ignoring patients. If you are not guilty then this does not include you.

[in vivo]

I feel like that's common. I think we hear things like "we can't test cannabis to prove it", but that's not entirely accurate. There isn't one single aspect of this plant that not currently being worked on in some regard or another. With the advent of knockout mice, much can be learned. There are a number of variables like the level of expression, sex, and so forth between species, but tracking down signal transduction pathways continues to prove its effectiveness in identifying physiological mechanism involved.

 

I apologize for being presumptuous. You only mentioned contacting the one patient. Even if it was 100 patients, I still view it as subjective. Meaningful, but subjective. There's a ton of variables to consider. Only one of which is delivery method. Maintaining consistent levels may be more important than spikes, in some situations.

 

In this dream I had once we took all of the available science, coupled it with our anecdotal experiences, and helped one another maximize the therapeutic value of this plant. Now that I think about it, I may have smoked a roach first.

[Norby]

It's a study on rats and shrews.  It says IBS patients may have to watch for negative side effects and MAY be of potential use to patients.  That's all it says.  It doesn't say ANYTHING against your experience with said patient.  Why you hatin on the science.  The science ain't sayin nothin to you.  Says NOT A SINGLE DEFINITIVE THING about humans other than it MAY help them more than THC and CBD.  It does not say that it does.  And you never qualified what was the underlying cause of your patients condition.  If your patient has severe IBS that leads to vomiting you may be argueing without looking at exactly what the article confirms for you.

And my take from this is it MAY in some and MAY NOT in others, nothing definitive about humans.  So your misinterpreting the results or whoever said your experience was wrong misinterpretted the meanin of the study.  Science is not ignoring your patients, laws about testing and studies are, your beef is with the gov't handcuffs.

[Restorium2]

It's a study on rats and shrews.  It says IBS patients may have to watch for negative side effects and MAY be of potential use to patients.  That's all it says.  It doesn't say ANYTHING against your experience with said patient.  Why you hatin on the science.  The science ain't sayin nothin to you.  Says NOT A SINGLE DEFINITIVE THING about humans other than it MAY help them more than THC and CBD.  It does not say that it does.  And you never qualified what was the underlying cause of your patients condition.  If your patient has severe IBS that leads to vomiting you may be argueing without looking at exactly what the article confirms for you.

And my take from this is it MAY in some and MAY NOT in others, nothing definitive about humans.  So your misinterpreting the results or whoever said your experience was wrong misinterpretted the meanin of the study.  Science is not ignoring your patients, laws about testing and studies are, your beef is with the gov't handcuffs.

Not hatin' on anything. If you think so then re-read with that in mind. I'm a man OF science. You just don't know me at all. Re-read.

[Restorium2]

They are studying about THCA and there is none in what works for everyone I know that uses cannabis for nausea. I would be neglecting cannabis to not say that.

 

If you don't use it for nausea then I wouldn't expect you to know that.

 

If you do use THCA for nausea then speak up about it. I haven't heard anything good about it from that kind of patient. Maybe you have?

[Norby]

I'm sick of science ignoring patients. If you are not guilty then this does not include you.

I guess I took this wrong?  And the first post about why do they do studies that "go against the grain of what we already know"?  Do you have IBS patients, crohn's and UC and whatever other unknown stomach issues that cause nausea?  You seem to think you know everything from your experiences or hearsay experiences about how cannabis works?  It already had a disclaimer for IBS patients on juicing.  I don't see why you find a study on rats and shrews going against what we know.  Going against what we know segments things to see why they are good in one and not another.  Seems like your against a study that contradicts your limited experiences.

 

Yes I got relief from green dragon, non-decarbed unless there was chlorophyll in it.  And I'm an IBS patient. They didn't know about decarbing.  Most people liked it and had no problems with stomach issues.  A couple did.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Norby

[in vivo]

I believe that I have. Though I discredited it at the time, and assumed it was possibly a placebo effect. A patient with a number of GI issues was putting concentrate in their morning tea and swore by the effectiveness. I later associated it with COX-2 and inflammation. These papers seem to elucidate another possible explanation (5-HT).

 

I noticed that THCA was being recommended for GI issues by a group. They are recommending oral systemic delivery methods to maintain consistent levels. I contacted the leader in regards to potential dangers associated with selective COX-2 inhibition. He assured me that he's used THCA effectively in a number of GI cases. This is partly what started me exploring the acidic forms of acid to a greater extent.

 

The other paper linked also discusses CB1, TRPV1, GPR55, and other receptors activated by cannabinoids in relation to the gut. CB1 receptors line the GI tract, they certainly appear to be a useful target. CB1 activation as well as 5-HT might be even more useful. 

[in vivo]

I'm interested in the chlorophyll statement. It continues to be brought up and I can't put my finger on what it could be. I'm wondering if this is a case of pointing out what's most obvious (the green). As far as I can gather freshly juiced cannabis is more of a selective COX-2 inhibitor, which has shown to be problematic for those with IBS. That's the only explanation I can currently come up with. Which doesn't mean I'm not just missing something obvious.

 

I suppose it doesn't really matter what it is. If it's a consistent problem and it can easily be circumvented, it should be. There are some potentially beneficial compounds related to chlorophyll.   

 

Here was my previous comment on it:

The degradation of the chlorophyll is observable to the naked eye. It breaks down as it becomes brown. It appears to break down into pheophytin, which also has antioxidant and anti-inflammatory characteristics. I looked it up quickly and found that "carotene and xanthophylls are reported pigments" in cannabis. The degradation of carotene is slowed by the presence of antioxidants (which are plentiful in cannabis). Xanthophylls appear to be more stable.

 

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/51752771_Chlorophyll_revisited_anti-inflammatory_activities_of_chlorophyll_a_and_inhibition_of_expression_of_TNF-_gene_by_the_same/file/5046351a3339f93c3b.pdf

[Restorium2]

I guess I took this wrong?  And the first post about why do they do studies that "go against the grain of what we already know"?  Do you have IBS patients, crohn's and UC and whatever other unknown stomach issues that cause nausea?  You seem to think you know everything from your experiences or hearsay experiences about how cannabis works?  It already had a disclaimer for IBS patients on juicing.  I don't see why you find a study on rats and shrews going against what we know.  Going against what we know segments things to see why they are good in one and not another.  Seems like your against a study that contradicts your limited experiences.

 

Yes I got relief from green dragon, non-decarbed unless there was chlorophyll in it.  And I'm an IBS patient. They didn't know about decarbing.  Most people liked it and had no problems with stomach issues.  A couple did.

You believe there was all THCA, and no THC, in your green dragon? That's oil? You eat it? How long does it take to work? Have you tried any other cannabis products for your nausea? If so, what else works for your nausea? Edited February 25, 2014 by Restorium2

[Restorium2]

The difference in effective treatment of the nausea may hinge on the cause of it.

 

For example;

 

If your nausea was caused my something brain oriented, or able to be controlled by the brain, the THC might be more effective than THCA, due to THC's ability to cross the blood brain barrier. THCA doesn't have that ability, so if you have nausea that is more body oriented, then the THCA might be more effective. The cause could make all the difference. If this is true then we would need to decide which was more common, brain or body caused/cured nausea.

[in vivo]

I agree with the first statement.

 

I think that CB1 activation has more to do with the fact that they line the GI tract and regulate a number of functions more so than anything to do with the brain.

 

The acidic forms of cannabinoids were once thought of as being inactive. That is now known to be inaccurate.