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New Patient How Long Before I Can Provide Medicine?


Kingdiamond
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the moment the doctor signs the patients certification you are protected by the MMMA to use cannabis to help you with your condition.

 

each section of the act will help further your layers of protections based on what situations you may face.

 

i would transfer cannabis to a patient i am going to connect with through LARA the moment we both sign the document that authorizes our compliant use.  it is a legally binding contract the moment it is signed. 

 

it does not require acceptance by LARA to be activated... it is only verified and vetted by LARA who will then send you a plastic card that states you have been checked out and you filled out all your paperwork properly so that any third party LAW Enforcement Person could make a quick analysis of your possible cannabis activity and move along...

 

if you made a mistake while filling out your paperwork you are granted proper time to correct any mistakes and resubmit the application for another quality control check. 

you can resubmit your application to LARA as many times as it takes to get it done correctly.

 

if you want to transfer cannabis to your signed patient before your card arrives from LARA you absolutely have the right to do so and would be protected under the terms and conditions of the MMMA. to the extent that you are following the guidelines established in 333.2642

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remember folks

 

that the doctors signature is the authorizing entity to use cannabis legally in Michigan.

 

Lara has nothing to do with approving your medical condition. 

 

they only verify what the Doctor said and make sure the doctor is legit.

 

once the doctor signs the certification form you are authorized to use cannabis.

 

whether or not you choose to register with LARA is completely up to you.

 

the only advantage to registration is protection from arrest..

 

and thats a huge advantage... however remember it is only part of the story..and it doesn't always work.. the full story is your protected from any prosecution and allowed to assert the medical use of cannabis defense the moment the doctor agrees with you and decided cannabis can help you thereby signing your certification allowing your medical use of cannabis to treat your own condition or symptoms of an approved condition.

 

you as an adult cannabis patient are perfectly capable of making the decision of when and how much cannabis to use so that you find suitable relief - no one else on this planet is currently able to address that personal decision any better than you yourself can each and every time..

Edited by mibrains
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My own opinion, which isn't legal advice, is that an already-carded CG can provide meds to a legit patient right away. 

 

A primary caregiver who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for assisting a qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process with the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act. The privilege from arrest under this subsection applies only if the primary caregiver presents both his or her registry identification card and a valid driver license or government-issued identification card that bears a photographic image of the primary caregiver. This subsection applies only if the primary caregiver possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed:

(1) 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana for each qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process; and

(2) for each registered qualifying patient who has specified that the primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility; and

 

The above says a CG who has a registry card.  It doesn't specify that the card must be associated with the patient the CG is assisting.  My interpretation is that this is so an already-vetted CG with no more than 4 current patients can provide meds to patient #5 on day 1.  This is also supported when you look at number (1) and (2).  Note that the law states that the CG can possess 2.5 oz for a "qualifying patient" connected through the registration process.  Then it states that the CG can possess 12 plant for each REGISTERED qualifying patient.  Basic rules of statutory interpretation tell us that the omission of the word "registered" in one location and its use in another is done for a reason.  So it would follow that the law differentiates between a "qualify patient connected through the registration process" and a "registered qualifying patient." 

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It could be unfortunate if the said patient had committed a felony after he had a card, or was showing us an invalid or revoked card/paperwork to use to apply to the program, if we chose to transfer at signing, before we paid lara to verify the info.

 

(FYI it doesn't matter if a patient is a convicted felon or not)

 

I have had people tell me that they disagree with my legal theory on this because there is no way to determine for sure if a patient is legit or not.  I agree that this adds risk of getting tricked by a illegitimate patient, but I don't agree that this possability has any impact on how to interpret the law.  So if the CG meets a new patient and is concerned, he should wait.  But if he signs up his grandma and knows for sure she has cancer and took her to her Dr. appointment to get certified, in my non-legal-professional opinion, the law provides Section 4 protection for the CG to assist the patient right away.

 

Keep in mind that the risk of a patient tricking the CG into something illegal exists not just in the first 20 days but that risk runs throughout the entire relationship.  Say, for example, a patient gets a card revoked.  How long will it be before LARA notifies the CG?  There could/would be at least some period of time between the patient getting the card revoked and the CG finding out....enough time to buy more meds, anyway.

 

The same risk exists on day 21, day 400.  The patient's card could get revoked at any time

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It still would not matter GM unless the felon was the one trying to be the caregiver.

 

Simple answer is that the protection should be as Highlander describes. Only my opinion of course.

 

Absolute protection without a doubt should be 21 business days after LARA receives the NEW PATIENT application or RENEWING PATIENT application and once you receive the ACTUAL HARD CARD for a CHANGE FORM. That should hold true for meds and starting the plants. Only my opinion of course.

 

Now what would be honored that depends on where and who you would be dealing with. Not right I know but the fact.

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Please remember that this is an uncarded patient who just sent in a new recommendation would that fact change anything ?

 

no problem

 

uncarded does not matter..  what matters is the doctors signature and how confident you are with that document and the procedures followed between the doctor and the patient...

 

it is after all the authorizing document to use or grow cannabis.. a card from LARA would help you when it comes to an unknown doctor and an unknown signature. 

 

if your signing the patient and planning on keeping them as your patient then all that information can be sorted out and corrected.

 

this approach does not work for unsigned transfers.

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unless the patient was also a caregiver, but I agree. I wasn't thinking.

 

also I wonder if Kingdiamond will find that the day he may provide legally is also the day he may begin to grow 12 more plants legally?

 

yes..

 

i would say that he could grow plants as well as provide usable cannabis.

 

the day you provide cannabis to a patient you are also undertaking the responsibility of growing plants for this patient.. this information would be discussed during the interview process...

 

what strains... what amounts... what prices.. what time frames... all these details should be resolved before signing the final documents and accepting the fiduciary responsibility of maintaining the cannabis supply for a patient.

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i think that the cg would be protected until LARA notified them of the card being revoked , those that were registered anyhow.

 

why would LARA revoke a card?

 

they can deny an application..

 

but that is only when the people filling it out make a mistake.. or are fraudulent..

 

in the case of a mistake the parties involved are allowed ample time to correct the documents and resubmit.

 

if fraud... then well... we should hang them.

 

if its a cop being fraudulent or an individual misrepresenting their own history... we should hang those people who purposefully try to "get away with cheating our system"

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no such thing as absolute protection.. in any case.. in any venue..

 

the secret is to understand the rights and responsibilities and then make sure you can remain as compliant as possible.

 

the thing is..

 

the 21 day rule means nothing except to LEO. (edit >because it is only for protection from arrest)

 

the only time a person should be even worried is when they are doing a non-signed transaction...

 

all these details will not come into play between a patient and their caregiver if the two people are on the same page and operating according to their pre-agreed upon arrangement.

 

 

Exactly which is why I used a should and the statement later in the post. Not everything is honored as it SHOULD BE at ALL TIMES in ALL PLACES.

 

Edited to add that for whatever reason they may revoke a card.

Edited by ozzrokk
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I've seen an actual card revoked,  for a physician qualification issue.  

 

thats pretty scary.. i heard about one doctor signing certifications for several months after he expired and many of his patients suffered in that process.

 

the lesson in that is to double check your Doctor and do not use a certification mill.

 

make sure you see the Doctor who is signing your certification and be sure to establish a bonafied relationship with them.

 

its not like we can blame the patient for the Doctors mistake.

 

this is truly a scenario where the patient would need to start all over.. we have all had to adjust and learn as we discover the ways that our freedoms might be squashed.

 

the Doctor - Patient relationship is crucial to any and all defenses when it comes to cannabis use...

 

Double check the doctors license is in fact hanging on the wall and that it is not expired.

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Please remember that this is an uncarded patient who just sent in a new recommendation would that fact change anything ?

 

I would stick to my original interpretation still, because the law says "A primary caregiver who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for assisting a qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process with the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act"

 

Again, we look at the intentional omission of the word "registered."  The fact that "registered" is used in some areas and not in others means something.  So in my opinion, the only interpretation would be that the law provides Section 4 protection to a CG assisting a "qualifying patient" as well as a "registered qualifying patient."

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patient card revocation by lara is pretty rare.

 

"No registry cards were revoked in Fiscal Year 2013."

"No registry cards were revoked in FY 2012"

"One registry cards was revoked in FY 2009"

"No registry cards were revoked in FY 2011"

"No patient or primary caregiver registrations were revoked in Fiscal Year 2010-2011."

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patient card revocation by lara is pretty rare.

 

"No registry cards were revoked in Fiscal Year 2013."

"No registry cards were revoked in FY 2012"

"One registry cards was revoked in FY 2009"

"No registry cards were revoked in FY 2011"

"No patient or primary caregiver registrations were revoked in Fiscal Year 2010-2011."

 

This is great information.  Where did you find it?

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