Jump to content

Outdoor Design, Top Covering


sho

Recommended Posts

I just want to know how this guy moves 60 pounds in a year...even if he is a patient growing for five others, that's 10 pounds per person per year...or about 13 ounces per patient per month. Something isn't adding up.

He already said he doesn't have to 'add up'. He's got BAYANET telling him to go for it. He says he is a fat old guy who knows the Sheriff so nothing bad can happen to him and his son he sent though law school selling marijuana. So far, so good. I hope he sets all kinds of precedents around me here as he sells like a pack of wild dogs. Good luck fat man. If he keeps knocking down 6 figures a year maybe he can buy a judge or two. At least he will not need any financial help from us if he gets in trouble. It's all good.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you had read the post with the Michigan Supreme Court ruling you would understand that there is no 2.5 oz limit and no 12 plant limit, these are just "arbitrary numbers came up with by the legislature", they are not recognized by the Michigan Supreme Court. So it all comes down to how much money a county is willing to spend, some counties will spend a lot of money to fight Medical Marijuana and some wont. All counties will be like mine after they spend their way into bankruptcy, it is just a matter of time. If you want your county to be more accepting of medical marijuana, fight them in court, make them spend money to prosecute you, then after they have lost enough money word will come down to lay off the medical marijuana community. Too many people get scarred and plea to a lesser charge, emboldening the police to continue harassing medical marijuana card holders.

 

I love how everyone rags on me about 60 pounds, go to C3 in Flint and watch the same people sell day after day, week after week, they are selling 60 pounds a  couple months, not a year. Go see how many come with 15 ounces every day. And to smoke 10 pounds in a year is not that big of a deal, I know people that buy 3.5 pounds and run out by March. My 5 and I go through it with no problem, we are almost out and it is only July 8th, we will not make it to harvest.

 

And for those that thought I came here to brag, you have no clue, I am very small time, there is a group near me that grows well over 400 pounds each and every year. And what about all the 7 clubs out there? Make #1 the caregiver, wait 2 weeks and make #2 every ones care giver, wait 2 weeks and make #3 the caregiver until all 7 have their stack of cards and they have 7 gardens with 72 plants each. This is so common and could easily be fixed if the State wanted to fix it, but I think they like the $10.

 

I grow completely within the letter of the law, I share my crop completely within the letter of the law, don't get pissed, get smart.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you had read the post with the Michigan Supreme Court ruling you would understand that there is no 2.5 oz limit and no 12 plant limit, these are just "arbitrary numbers came up with by the legislature", they are not recognized by the Michigan Supreme Court. So it all comes down to how much money a county is willing to spend, some counties will spend a lot of money to fight Medical Marijuana and some wont. All counties will be like mine after they spend their way into bankruptcy, it is just a matter of time. If you want your county to be more accepting of medical marijuana, fight them in court, make them spend money to prosecute you, then after they have lost enough money word will come down to lay off the medical marijuana community. Too many people get scarred and plea to a lesser charge, emboldening the police to continue harassing medical marijuana card holders.

 

I love how everyone rags on me about 60 pounds, go to C3 in Flint and watch the same people sell day after day, week after week, they are selling 60 pounds a  couple months, not a year. Go see how many come with 15 ounces every day. And to smoke 10 pounds in a year is not that big of a deal, I know people that buy 3.5 pounds and run out by March. My 5 and I go through it with no problem, we are almost out and it is only July 8th, we will not make it to harvest.

 

And for those that thought I came here to brag, you have no clue, I am very small time, there is a group near me that grows well over 400 pounds each and every year. And what about all the 7 clubs out there? Make #1 the caregiver, wait 2 weeks and make #2 every ones care giver, wait 2 weeks and make #3 the caregiver until all 7 have their stack of cards and they have 7 gardens with 72 plants each. This is so common and could easily be fixed if the State wanted to fix it, but I think they like the $10.

 

I grow completely within the letter of the law, I share my crop completely within the letter of the law, don't get pissed, get smart.

Been here since '08. Do you really believe I have not been paying attention to the Supreme Court? Like you are going to drop a bombshell we didn't know about?

 

The part you are missing is that it's about how much are YOU willing to spend on section 8 defense. Section 4 is still 2.5 and 12. Section 8 is open for anyone who wants to throw a ton of money at a defense AFTER you have already been arrested.

I try to help a lot of folks IN OUR AREA who can't afford a $15,000 defense. You just make things harder when you go against the law and brag about how you don't need a top on your enclosure, completely against the wording of the law because no one can see your grow. That's not law, that's speculation not covered by any wording in the law. I'll keep helping patients stay out of trouble and you keep pushing the limits. Like I said, it's all good. Just remember there are two parts to the law and using one of those costs a lot right now. The one you are using isn't a valid option for a lot of sick folks or others who can barely support themselves to begin with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kwinn, no arguing with your reading of the law and how an optimist might perceive what it says. The downside is that people that have gone forward with your reading are now in jail. If you have been following the court cases, your chance of convincing a judge of your reading of the law has been slim to none.

 

You are correct in that the MSC said a Sec 8 defense is valid. The downside is almost no one has been successful in court with it. I wish you luck if you find yourself needing to use Sec 8.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

kwinnn you are the complete insider, i've never heard of 7 clubs until your info.

big at collages

 not sure what they call them or if they even have a name, I just thought it odd they have 7 members instead of 6. But it is just people cheating the system

Link to comment
Share on other sites

big at collages

 not sure what they call them or if they even have a name, I just thought it odd they have 7 members instead of 6. But it is just people cheating the system

Heard about these from JR back in '09. He ran it past the attorney we had at the cc meeting. We always called it a Daisy Chain.

 

You said that the State would stop it if they wanted to. Do you understand the process to stop this? It aint pretty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heard about these from JR back in '09. He ran it past the attorney we had at the cc meeting. We always called it a Daisy Chain.

 

You said that the State would stop it if they wanted to. Do you understand the process to stop this? It aint pretty.

seems to stop it all they would have to do is require you to include your old care givers card with your new care giver request. right now the way I understand it, it is the patients responsibility to collect the old card and destroy it. I have had patients quit on me and not even tell me, I only found out when talking to a friend only to discover we both had the same guy as a patient. I did seek legal advise and was told if I had the card I was good to go, but what if I was not first? well then my card is bad. So I replaced the guy. I now have a set of my good friends that stay with me, they help prepare the ground in the spring, they help cover costs, and all personal use smoke is free. I do wonder about patients being care givers, that is what I would call a daisy chain. If one of my patients is also your care giver, is that all legal? I grow, supply my patient that then turns around and supplies you with smoke I grew. I know a lot of people doing this, they all say it is legal, my son says it has never been tested in court that he knows of. So if anyone knows of this being tested in court or written into the law, I would love to know. Contrary to the beliefs of some posters here I do not test the edges of the system, but I do like to know exactly what is legal and what is not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The part you are missing is that it's about how much are YOU willing to spend on section 8 defense. Section 4 is still 2.5 and 12. Section 8 is open for anyone who wants to throw a ton of money at a defense AFTER you have already been arrested.

I try to help a lot of folks IN OUR AREA who can't afford a $15,000 defense. You just make things harder '''

 

I disagree that I make it harder, if they raid me I would not plea, I would fight. Every time someone fights, it makes you stronger, they know the risk is getting greater that people will stand up to them and make their time and money spent on raiding and prosecuting a complete waste. I am not volunteering for the job but I grow within the law and will defend that right. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree that I make it harder, if they raid me I would not plea, I would fight. Every time someone fights, it makes you stronger, they know the risk is getting greater that people will stand up to them and make their time and money spent on raiding and prosecuting a complete waste. I am not volunteering for the job but I grow within the law and will defend that right.

What I said was you make it harder for legal growers to understand the law says YOU NEED A TOP ON YOUR ENCLOSURE. You are not doing anyone any good by saying some cop on BAYANET told you it aint so and it's the law. That's a bad thing to do whether you know that or not. You probably were just BSing us. Because I know how they roll and they don't roll how you say they do unless they are breathing down your neck and waiting to pounce on you. That's why I advised you to be very careful. The prosecutors know you need a top on your enclosure whether the cop does or not. The prosecutors know about 2.5 ounces and 12 plants whether you think it's BS or not. It's the prosecutor that decides what comes down on you when and where. Not some dufiss on BAYANET.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

and come on, if you grow 4 crops of 72 plants each, indoors over one year, and if you average just 3.5 ounces per plant - you have grown more than me.

 

most growers I know talk of 4 crops a year and 2.5 to 6 ounce averages. and you act like I am telling a big secret to the cops, he saw my garden dude! are you kidding? Do you really think he didn't know how much I would get? He prolly had a whole lot better guess than me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

seems to stop it all they would have to do is require you to include your old care givers card with your new care giver request. right now the way I understand it, it is the patients responsibility to collect the old card and destroy it. I have had patients quit on me and not even tell me, I only found out when talking to a friend only to discover we both had the same guy as a patient. I did seek legal advise and was told if I had the card I was good to go, but what if I was not first? well then my card is bad. So I replaced the guy. I now have a set of my good friends that stay with me, they help prepare the ground in the spring, they help cover costs, and all personal use smoke is free. I do wonder about patients being care givers, that is what I would call a daisy chain. If one of my patients is also your care giver, is that all legal? I grow, supply my patient that then turns around and supplies you with smoke I grew. I know a lot of people doing this, they all say it is legal, my son says it has never been tested in court that he knows of. So if anyone knows of this being tested in court or written into the law, I would love to know. Contrary to the beliefs of some posters here I do not test the edges of the system, but I do like to know exactly what is legal and what is not.

 

 

The Supreme Court was pretty clear in McQueen that a Caregiver's conduct with marijuana must be for the purpose of alleviating his patient's condition. Not just any patient...but one of his own five. If a Caregiver transfers MJ to one of his own patients for the purpose of that patient transferring to yet another patient, the CG's conduct was not for the purpose of alleviating HIS patient's condition. This is why the daisy-chain idea won't fly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with the Section 8 safety net is in the details:

 

"Sec. 8. (a) Except as provided in section 7(b), a patient and a patient's primary caregiver, if any, may assert the medical purpose for using marihuana as a defense to any prosecution involving marihuana, and this defense shall be presumed valid where the evidence shows that:

 

(1) A physician has stated that, in the physician's professional opinion, after having completed a full assessment of the patient's medical history and current medical condition made in the course of a bona fide physician-patient relationship, the patient is likely to receive therapeutic or palliative benefit from the medical use of marihuana to treat or alleviate the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition;

 

(2) The patient and the patient's primary caregiver, if any, were collectively in possession of a quantity of marihuana that was not more than was reasonably necessary to ensure the uninterrupted availability of marihuana for the purpose of treating or alleviating the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition; ...."

 

How does one prove that he needs 60 pounds of marijuana to ensure a continual supply for his patients? I don't think any court is going to interpret that you can have as much MJ on-hand as you need to ensure you can sell to any willing patient ready to buy. What do other people think this means? What does it mean to have a continual supply for an unknown number of potential patients with unknown needs? You could stretch the idea a little further and say that there are 125,000 patients in Michigan and that they average an oz. per month each, so Section 8 protects a CG who possess a year's supply for every patient in Michigan - which adds up to a little less than 50 tons.

 

Section 4 provides presumptions for compliance - innocent until proven guilty. Section 8 requires that the defendant prove his case....guilty unless and until proven innocent.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is proving the elements that is the issue. In this discussion, specifically, it is about the question of how many patients would you need to testify in order to justify your stockpile? If you are charged with 60 pounds, how many patients would you need to scrounge up to testify on your behalf?

 

Also, keep in mind that Section 8 is an affirmative defense and what "affirmative defense" means.

 

I'm not a big Wikipedia fan, but this, from Wikipedia, sums things up pretty clearly:

 

"An affirmative defense to a criminal charge is a fact or set of facts other than those alleged by the plaintiff or prosecutor which, if proven by the defendant, defeats or mitigates the legal consequences of the defendant's otherwise unlawful conduct...

 

...In an affirmative defense the burden of proof is generally on the defendant to prove his allegations either by the preponderance of the evidence or clear and convincing evidence."

 

So maybe "guilty until proven innocent" isn't the best summary.  But "guilty" of the crime is a pretty basic cornerstone of an affirmative defense proceeding.  An affirmative defense is one in which the defendant pretty much concedes that a crime was committed - yet he has some arguable reason why he should not be held accountable for the crime.  In my book, if you are arguing an affirmative defense, you are more or less admitting guilt but seeking a ruling that you should not be held criminally liable for your actions.  Sounds to me like "guilty until proven innocent."  I understand that you see this in a different light, so I'm eager to see some foundation for this opinion.

Edited by Highlander
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 years later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...