Obama 'spincter' Tickle Causes Unaffordable Care.

[Restorium2]

so if it saved you 1,500.00 than you have that much left to save or do things with your family

What it did was make it so I didn't have to go without the medicine. It did let me spend some more time alive with my family. It didn't put a penny in my pocket. But that's not what is most important to me.

[trichcycler]

 

 

 

This Genetically Modified Organism(hamster ovaries) sold as Enbrel, a lifestyle drug that is very successful because of its advertising efforts in spite of it's risks. Approximately 63 cents out of every DTC ad dollar goes to TV. Pfizer/Amgen spend about $63 million to reach 375,000 people via TV ads. People take it when they decide that shutting down the immune system and risking cancer is better than living with the pain. The drug largely burdened those who pay premiums but don't use lifestyle prescriptions costing 1500$ per month. The remainder of the costs were thrust on insurance complanies, then passed it on to their customers in insurance premiums, partly the reason we have outrageous rx insurance coverage costs in the first place maybe.

 

 

http://static.squarespace.com/static/518a3cfee4b0a77d03a62c98/t/534fca02e4b05a88e5fbab7f/1397737986657/2013%20iFHP%20FINAL%204%2014%2014.pdf

[outsideinthecold]

Some people think one-million dollars is a lot of money?

 

Put it in a money market fund and you'd get a whooping $600/month.

 

Buy AEP or DTE stock and get $3000/month in dividends.

[Restorium2]

This Genetically Modified Organism(hamster ovaries) sold as Enbrel, a lifestyle drug that is very successful because of its advertising efforts in spite of it's risks. Approximately 63 cents out of every DTC ad dollar goes to TV. Pfizer/Amgen spend about $63 million to reach 375,000 people via TV ads. People take it when they decide that shutting down the immune system and risking cancer is better than living with the pain. The drug largely burdened those who pay premiums but don't use lifestyle prescriptions costing 1500$ per month. The remainder of the costs were thrust on insurance complanies, then passed it on to their customers in insurance premiums, partly the reason we have outrageous rx insurance coverage costs in the first place maybe.

 

 

http://static.squarespace.com/static/518a3cfee4b0a77d03a62c98/t/534fca02e4b05a88e5fbab7f/1397737986657/2013%20iFHP%20FINAL%204%2014%2014.pdf

Say hi to a person that Enbrel saved their life. That's me. Walk a while in the shoes of a survivor before you decide any life saving drug is bad for the surface population. It helps more than just pain. It doesn't do a thing for pain actually. It stopped a disease from continuing to attack my heart, lungs, eyes, and skeleton. If you need to know anything about Enbrel then I'm your personal expert. I live with it every day. Your burden as a tax payer? No. I had the disease since I was 18 and have worked my 40 quarters with the disease, paid my dues. My dad was a vet and he died early so maybe I can borrow a little of the 'dole' he didn't collect.

[MedicatedJester]

I hesitate to even jump into these conversations as they are so emotional for people, but there is one point I wanted to make based on phaque's comment about how he used to pay $700 for his family insurance when self-employed.  I have no idea how long ago that was, but the reality of health insurance is that it has gone up TREMENDOUSLY year after year for a long time.  It just seems that now when it goes up, many people say it is going up due to ACA.  What was causing it to skyrocket before?

 

I have been fortunate to have good, solid employment throughout my career.  That being said, if you go back even 10 years ago, I had a BCBS policy that I paid exactly $0 a month for (employer paid 100% of premiums) and the coverage was awesome!  Drug co-pays were $5/$10, and doctor co-pays were $20.  That was it, that was all I eve had to pay.

 

Fast forward 10 years.  I now pay $558.03 a month for my Cigna insurance (employer picks up the majority still), and my insurance is much worse.  My drug co-pays are $20/$40/$60 and my doctor co-pays are $20/$40.  I also have a $6,000 family deductible and pay through the nose for any type of surgical procedure (paid over $1500 for an endoscopy last year).

 

None of this has anything to do with the ACA.  In fact, my insurance is essentially unchanged with ACA (in fact, it's slightly better coverage, and a slightly increased cost, of which my company picked up all the increase in cost, so I got a slightly better coverage for the same cost to me).

 

I guess my point is that when people blame 100% of increased cost of health care on ACA many are overlooking that costs have been skyrocketing for a decade (or more), and without ACA we were still paying  a lot more every year for less coverage.

[trichcycler]

I wonder when our mantra will change from our now current "sick care" system to a real "health care" one? Preventative maintenance seems key to the prevention of disease, caused by too much or not enough of something, but never because of prescription deficiency. By the time we know what we were supposed to be doing it's time to face the consequences, typically pain and dis-ease unfortunately. I remember reading of pre profit era physicians actually searching for treatments for diseases rather than uses for new patented chemicals. This is not the way it is supposed to be. The same institution that poisons us with their approval of foods that cause disease, then offers approvals and denials for the treatments of the diseases they cause. smells like carp to me. I wonder how much the fda spends shutting real cures out of the options ?

[Highlander]

I think we need to get away from employer-paid health insurance.  You don't need to look very far to see how an employer offering/required to foot the bill probably causes widespread hiring discrimination. 

 

Myself, I tried not to let insurance costs get in the way of making hiring decisions.  In fact, it is the primary reason I took myself out of that role.  I was responsible for hiring for a relatively small company that offered employees and their families full BCBS.  I knew that if I had a 23 year old single guy at the interview table, his insurance would cost us $150/month.  A woman of child-bearing age with a few kids would be around $900/month.  Someone over 50 - about $500/month.

 

The system favored the young and healthy males.  I could hire the young guy instead of the female parent and see a difference of $9,000 in costs between two employees who did the same job.

 

In my own opinion - at least from my own perspective, the primary benefit of  the ACA is the ability to have pre-existing conditions covered.  I knew of a few people who had BCBS group insurance but then left to go to a for-profit insurance company for a lower premium.  Trouble was, with the non-profit group policy, the insurance company could not cancel a policy or raises prices on the individual.  They would have had to make adjustments for the entire group.  But these poor souls who made the bad decision to buy an individual policy...and then got sick....the insurance company raised the premiums through the roof to the point they were no longer affordable, so the customers canceled them and went back to a group policy....a policy that excludes coverage of pre-existing conditions for six months.  So there they were left to pay several thousand bucks per month on the individual policy or do without insurance and medical treatment for six months to get back into a group policy.

[trichcycler]

of course there's always the Dead Peasant policy side of the coin. Those employers may actually seek out an unhealthy individual, like looking around at Wallmart's....ahem, who only recently stopped reporting profits every time a stock boy or cashier died, while they cashed in their slimy policy

[outsideinthecold]

I really enjoy thought provoking threads. Thanks for all who have added to the conversation.

 

If some here who can't fathom the views of a small government fiscal conservative and social conservative like myself had lived my life experiences I'm sure they would think differently.

 

Likewise, if I had lived theirs, I would think differently as well.

 

Regardless, it would serve all of us well to try and be more human.

 

Or at least more tolerant and understanding.

[GregS]

In my case I paid over $900 per month Cobra premiums, plus co-pays and deductibles until my savings, retirement, and maxed out credit cards, which I had to default on, were burned up, beginning in 2001. Premiums went up by leaps and bounds during the time I carried it. I lost the few nice things I'd acquired and am bankrupt. Remember too that the Republican majority House and Senate in 2001 made bankruptcy laws more onerous and expensive on we who were crushed by exorbitant medical bills, or for that matter any reason. Had the ACA been available then, it is pretty well assured I would not have lost so many of my assets. It was necessary that I carried the platinum Cobra plan because my wife was that sick, and spent thirteen weeks hospitalized in 2003 after having been damm near cut in half to remove a serious infection in her lung, taking part of it out, and subsequently has been admitted under emergency circumstances well over a hundred times. I'm trying real hard here not to whine, but it's damm difficult to avoid.

Edited July 24, 2014 by GregS

[GregS]

And Hillary can be counted on to keep the ACA rolling along toward a better system.

[jointedone]

Dear Resto,since you are so busy here is the number for Embrel Support from Amgen-Pfizer to get you into the Embrel Support Program 1-888-436-2735. RNs, Insurance info to help you are available 8am to 11pm EST. They paid for 4 injections,the monthly dose,my co-pay was 10.00. This drug is 2500.00 per month. I was on it for 2/12 years. So,instead of you and your boyfriend Mal calling me names,get off  your chair and tell your DR to help you into this program. Lazy people always think something is owed to them.  You already take the working poors money and think nothing of it,do you? Hope it isn't too much energy to try and help yourself. Talk about whiney....................

Edited July 24, 2014 by jointedone

[Restorium2]

Dear Resto,since you are so busy here is the number for Embrel Support from Amgen-Pfizer to get you into the Embrel Support Program 1-888-436-2735. RNs, Insurance info to help you are available 8am to 11pm EST. They paid for 4 injections,the monthly dose,my co-pay was 10.00. This drug is 2500.00 per month. I was on it for 2/12 years. So,instead of you and your boyfriend Mal calling me names,get off  your chair and tell your DR to help you into this program. Lazy people always think something is owed to them.  You already take the working poors money and think nothing of it,do you? Hope it isn't too much energy to try and help yourself. Talk about whiney....................

My insurance company, BlueCare of Michigan, the one I had while I was working regularly, is being forced to pay for it because of ObamaCare. They complain very often about it and try to pawn me off on anyone else they can think of. But I hold onto their tail, 14 years now. It's been a wild ride. And it is $1500 a month.

[Highlander]

of course there's always the Dead Peasant policy side of the coin. Those employers may actually seek out an unhealthy individual, like looking around at Wallmart's....ahem, who only recently stopped reporting profits every time a stock boy or cashier died, while they cashed in their slimy policy

Yeah. That's sickening. I think insuring employees is important for small businesses. If you have a small firm with three, say engineers, and one dies unexpectedly, that could end the business. So how do we keep business from abusing this? Maybe require them to provide an equal policy for the employee's family if they decided to insure an employee.

 

But then maybe the market will regulate itself. If Walmart makes lots of claims then their rates will go up. In just about any area, in the long term the insurance company wins.

[jointedone]

Now that is just plain not true,Resto.Why not get into the program instead of complaining about insurance costs? We had the same BC/BS insurance and because of obamas blessing,his boss was able to jerk that out from under all the employees and make us change to BCNet. Everything needs a referral.BC Net is the poor peoples BC/BS.And we will lose that because of your hero.My husband works for a company with under 50 employees..... and you think his boss is going to want to pay for health care for me? Why pay 1000s of bucks when you have the govts blessing to just pay a fine and not have to worry about it? Where are your Unions now? So you just keep enjoying your medical benefits from the State too,while the rest of us die. It will happen to you sheeple,too. This is the legacy that creepy man will leave for your grandchildren.  But don't worry. Putin will be running our country by then,so if you do happen to speak out,you will just disappear. And Mr Mal? I too am at the mercy of others,because I am just a pt.....just like you.The hatred you men two feel is disturbing and frightening,sounds like you would do something violent to someone that does not agree with you.  Because TRUTH is freedom. You are the haters,not me or the people that agree with me.

[+Malamute]

Hey phaq,... I know there is some issues with the adult benefit waiver, Medicaid, and the transition to the Healthy Michigan plans. The adult benefit issue was not really "medicaid'.  It was part of the SCHIP and CHIP funding that Michigan very nicely expanded at one time to allow poor adults to register into for basic healthcare.  Michigan unfortunately has taken a very drag your heals approach to forming a state exchange and more importantly to you, the Medicaid expansion.  Michigan asked for a waiver to basic Medicaid expansion requirements and offered up a different plan that somewhat expands care(Medicaid but not Medicaid) to poor individuals(Healthy Michigan).  By the republican government in Michigan asking for this what they did was actually 'expand' coverage at a cost some poor people, but took back some of their generosity(that many many other states didn't don't did/do) in the Adult Benefits Waiver program which was generally an expansion of the SCHIP program. As I recall. :-)

 

 So, while our state gov came up with some stupid way to fake expand Medicaid, they kinda cut the previous benefits for ABW(aduklts benefits waiver).

 

 Not sure if that addresses your issue phaq?

[mrd]

Now that is just plain not true,Resto.Why not get into the program instead of complaining about insurance costs? We had the same BC/BS insurance and because of obamas blessing,his boss was able to jerk that out from under all the employees and make us change to BCNet. Everything needs a referral.BC Net is the poor peoples BC/BS.And we will lose that because of your hero.My husband works for a company with under 50 employees..... and you think his boss is going to want to pay for health care for me? Why pay 1000s of bucks when you have the govts blessing to just pay a fine and not have to worry about it? Where are your Unions now? So you just keep enjoying your medical benefits from the State too,while the rest of us die. It will happen to you sheeple,too. This is the legacy that creepy man will leave for your grandchildren.  But don't worry. Putin will be running our country by then,so if you do happen to speak out,you will just disappear. And Mr Mal? I too am at the mercy of others,because I am just a pt.....just like you.The hatred you men two feel is disturbing and frightening,sounds like you would do something violent to someone that does not agree with you.  Because TRUTH is freedom. You are the haters,not me or the people that agree with me.

I suspect you have clarified why we , like other countries might be better off with a single payer system and all people covered. Getting the insurance companies out of the chain of payments is going to save 20 to forty percent.  Maybe health care should be a right for all citizens. After all we think that govt should protect us foreign invaders yet we think that illness and disease do not threaten us? You can call it socialism or you might call it compassion. 

[+washtenaut]

Health coverage was originally offered by companies as a benefit designed to entice someone to work for that company, similar to a company car.  A company's job offer that included stellar insurance was a better offer than one that didn't.

 

The problem is that today, due to the economy, companies hold all of the cards and employees have very few other job options.  Since they hold the cards, they can cut benefits and possibly even wages and since there are so few other jobs, employees say,' thank you sir, may I have another?'

 

Companies are cutting all sorts of benefits these days, not just health care.  401k plans are being cut at a lot of places too.  Think about it, if the employees can't really go anywhere else, why does the company need to spend more to keep them from leaving?

 

If people not affiliated with large companies could get the same coverage as those with companies, there wouldn't have been all that much need for the ACA.  Individuals though often got screwed by insurance limitations and pre-existing condition clauses.  They have no leverage as an individual and the insurance companies knew that and took advantage any way they legally could.

 

If you think about it, why should someone have to work for a company to get reasonable insurance coverage? 

[+Malamute]

Yes Jointedone,... Truth is power.

 

That is why I take the time on an occasion to correct your untruths.

 

Medicatedjester, totally agree.

[Restorium2]

Yeah. That's sickening. I think insuring employees is important for small businesses. If you have a small firm with three, say engineers, and one dies unexpectedly, that could end the business. So how do we keep business from abusing this? Maybe require them to provide an equal policy for the employee's family if they decided to insure an employee.

 

But then maybe the market will regulate itself. If Walmart makes lots of claims then their rates will go up. In just about any area, in the long term the insurance company wins.

The labor unions demanded this and they got it after a lot of hard negotiations. Now you see hundreds of employees of these corporations doing nothing productive and only looking for ways to take away the workers' benefits. There is a whole industry of do-nothings that their whole job description is to find ways to take benefits from others and find ways to make others work harder. While at the same time their salary makes these corporations top heavy with too many employees not producing anything but sneaky ways to steal from their fellow employees. This is a racket folks. Playing with other peoples wages and health care has been lucrative carreer for a lot of folks. They actually do it their whole carreer and collect a retirement off of a carreer of stealing from their fellow employees. You see companies that provide 'studys' to other companies to help them trim the fat. But the studys never point out the true fat, they point out how to get the only guy who actually does some work to work harder. They will pay $100,000 for a company to come in and observe the workers and find ways to make them work harder as the fat cats in the office just sit there and wait for answer as to how to keep sitting on their arses longer in the office.

[t-pain]

pic book, did you call medicaid ?

what did they say?

[phaquetoo]

so if it saved you 1,500.00 than you have that much left to save or do things with your family

 

What it did was make it so I didn't have to go without the medicine. It did let me spend some more time alive with my family. It didn't put a penny in my pocket. But that's not what is most important to me.

ok good enough!  truce!

 

 

Peace

[Restorium2]

ok good enough!  truce!

 

 

Peace

Truce. We are the same age. We grew up right next to each other. We did mostly the same things our whole lives. And now we are in the same boat looking at things from different angles. I'm listening to what you are saying. ObamaCare saved my life. It came along just in time, like some present all wrapped with my name on it. Just like medical cannabis did. I feel I'm blessed. So I run what I brung and express gratitude where I see it belongs. I don't have anyone political in my life telling me anything. I was a blank slate until I was messed with back in 98. Now I'm like a laser, focused on who has taken shots at me and threatened my very existence. My eyes are wide open, like a guy in front of a judge every day, because I'm still taking fire from the same people who want me gone. I have beaten them at every turn, but just barely. This fall they will try another tactic to break the promises made to me and leave me twist in the wind. Isn't everyone sick of seeing large corporations make promises in writing then hire firms to find them ways to not keep those promises? Spin offs and carve outs. If there's a way to f over employees, and even customers, it's not only acceptable, it's highly rewarded. It's a culture that has been carefully nurtured. You see it reportedly at the VA. You see it with the cover ups and recalls at GM. The head of GM actually keeps telling congress, "Trust us". Now that's a sign of a sickness that needs to be addressed. What do you do when there are huge factions in America in control and they want you to just "Trust them" without oversight? The battle cry of these folks is, "No more big government". Next time you hear the chant for no more big government think about Barra at GM asking congress to trust them to do the right thing because they are going to change all on their own.

[jointedone]

Jebus,I give up too. Like talking to the south end of a horse going north.Try reading a political site instead of arguing on a MMJ site.So very typical,you know it all,and everybody else is a dope.

[phaquetoo]

Hey phaq,... I know there is some issues with the adult benefit waiver, Medicaid, and the transition to the Healthy Michigan plans. The adult benefit issue was not really "medicaid'.  It was part of the SCHIP and CHIP funding that Michigan very nicely expanded at one time to allow poor adults to register into for basic healthcare.  Michigan unfortunately has taken a very drag your heals approach to forming a state exchange and more importantly to you, the Medicaid expansion.  Michigan asked for a waiver to basic Medicaid expansion requirements and offered up a different plan that somewhat expands care(Medicaid but not Medicaid) to poor individuals(Healthy Michigan).  By the republican government in Michigan asking for this what they did was actually 'expand' coverage at a cost some poor people, but took back some of their generosity(that many many other states didn't don't did/do) in the Adult Benefits Waiver program which was generally an expansion of the SCHIP program. As I recall. :-)

 

 So, while our state gov came up with some stupid way to fake expand Medicaid, they kinda cut the previous benefits for ABW(aduklts benefits waiver).

 

 Not sure if that addresses your issue phaq?

Thank You for explaining that to me, Im not sure either if that is what happened, but it sounds about right to me!

 

Back in the day when I was paying for my family's health ins, I kept the ins I had with a union company when I quit and moved onto my own business, I kept the cobra plan for 18 months it was like 300 a month for them 18 months after the cobra plan ran out,  if I wanted to keep the same ins, I had to pay around 700 a month (mid 80') we were trying to have a baby and needed ins, I was young and felt nothing could hurt me lol, my wife had poopy ins that would have cost a fortune to add her family on, so she just had the poopy ins and the ins I purchased also, had I not payed for the ins I would still be paying for my 26 yr olds birth costs from the hospital lol!

 

jointed one, mal and resto are so far from different, but you may of had to be here longer to know this, mal tells things he most def knows about and resto is just a mal wannabe lol!

 

You would do good to read what he writes, it is not often he gets pissed at someone or writes false info, when he says he read it all you realy should beleive he did!  he dont need me to stick up for him, but I think me and you are alot alike, Ive been in an agrument in here with resto and it isnt worth it, he wore me down bawahahahaha!  and I dont like feeling pissed off no longer I put myself on some pretty good head meds to try and avoid my out bursts!  It is not fail proof as you see me on here lol, but I can at least try and understand where people are coming from so I will bow out of my argument with him because he never will!  he likes to stir the s hi t kettle alot more than others on here and I have no need for that, as im sure you dont either!

 

continue on im reading and will probably post as needed lol!

 

Peace