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Which Way To Vote On Proposal 1 ?


t-pain

  

14 members have voted

  1. 1. prop 1

    • thats the ballot language? thats the proposal? wheres the law language?
      1
    • i am voting yes
      1
    • i will vote no on this
      12


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Heh.

 

Well, a revolution is done by simply electing people who aren't bought and sold by private interest and are elected to protect the public interest.

 

We have a system in place to resolve these issues. It is called government. But when more money=more democracy, you end up with the people with the most money making all the decisions. Welcome to Corporatocracy.

 

Noone is saying business is bad or commerce is bad or capitalism is bad,... but government should protect public interest and put limits out for such.

 

I mean, free market capitalism without the restraints of regulated environment has one end; One person ends up with everything.  That is how it all ends.  It is just the way that topic goes. Thus, in a Capitalistic society, one must retain a well regulated system with income dispersal for public interest to maintain a more stable environment.

 

As a society, we are either in this together, or we are only in it for ourselves.  As an American, I want to be in this together with everyone else in America.  We shouldn't be fighting with Ohio on which state can pay the film industry the most money to make a movie in their state. We shouldn't be fighting over the fact that a business should pay fair tax rates just like the rest of us.

 

 I dunno....

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Cristinew prop1 eliminates the PPT on a phase out and builds in a new even handed tax. You and everyone else seems to be ignoring that. 

 

If I open a building consulting business then I have no taxable equipment. I inspect properties and that is it.  If I open a building contracting business then all of my equipment gets taxed every year. Does that make sense?

 

Does it make sense to levy a STATE tax that only benefits certain communities? That is what the PPT does. Eliminate the PPT and assess a business tax that is a flat tax and even handed so every business is taxed a percentage. As long as you levy a very specific tax such as PPT then you will have businesses finding a way around it. They will dispose of equipment that provides a no or low profit margin. They won't buy specialty equipment that is rarely used. Guess who loses jobs in that result? Eliminate the PPT and you have industry willing to move equipment into the state and employ people to operate it. You act as though Michigan is where they are stuck and will stay. Businesses can and do move out of state to more favorable tax climates.

 

I can come up with literally hundreds of examples of this happening. California is one example. Big movie studios fled the state and make movies elsewhere due to the unfriendly tax climate. Fallbrook Technologies, a transmission maker, moved out of CA to TX due to the tax climate. It happens all the time. Tax a company at a rate that makes it more favorable to move and they will move and take the jobs with them. It is simple economics. You know why GM moved so many factories to Mexico? Simple economics.

 

Have at it. Tax business to death until they die or run. Then cry about Michigan having the highest unemployment.

 

Not only does getting rid of ridiculous taxes help create jobs it also helps retain jobs. Stop living for today and think about the future.

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I agree with nuclear power and I am all for that but I can't help but see how many people who push for green this and green that are opposed to it.  If the infrastructure can handle the power demand then by all means go electric. We still have a long ways to go though to get light enough batteries that can hold enough power to allow you to drive 100 miles without a lengthy recharge.  At that rate it would take you 2 or 3 days to get up to Big Mac.

Edited by FranksHotPeppersAndMarijuana
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There is nothing in the PPT that exempts personal property as long as it is owned by the same business. Moving it does nothing. You can move it from Monroe to Marquette and you are still going to pay taxes on it.  Ownership is the key issue not where it is located. In fact moveability is what makes personal property personal property. If machinery is permanently fixed to the real property then it becomes part of real property and isn't taxable as personal property. Someone wasted their time paying you to move equipment if they thought that would help them avoid PPT. And I am sorry if I don't take your little vignette as proof that moving it avoids the PPT. More likely the person had you move it so it could be shown that it wasn't real property and thus not subject to increased real property taxes. But hey do me a favor and link me to this nonexistent provision that allows for an exemption if it is moved from one end of the building to another. It'll be good for defecates and giggles. It is just another of the long line of silliness being used to show how evil businesses are.

 

It reminds me of when Feiger was running for governor. I listened to him on a radio show when one of his opponents said they would fix the legal system if elected. The person was maybe Engler but he claimed that he would make it so no one could sue you if they broke their arm breaking into your house. Feiger challenged him on that and said it was complete folklore and never happened in Michigan and he challenged the opponent to produce a single case where that ever happened. No case was ever produced.

 

I don't rely on folklore when making my voting decisions. I research the issues.

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There is nothing in the PPT that exempts personal property as long as it is owned by the same business. Moving it does nothing. You can move it from Monroe to Marquette and you are still going to pay taxes on it.  Ownership is the key issue not where it is located. In fact moveability is what makes personal property personal property. If machinery is permanently fixed to the real property then it becomes part of real property and isn't taxable as personal property. Someone wasted their time paying you to move equipment if they thought that would help them avoid PPT. And I am sorry if I don't take your little vignette as proof that moving it avoids the PPT. More likely the person had you move it so it could be shown that it wasn't real property and thus not subject to increased real property taxes. But hey do me a favor and link me to this nonexistent provision that allows for an exemption if it is moved from one end of the building to another. It'll be good for defecates and giggles. It is just another of the long line of silliness being used to show how evil businesses are.

 

It reminds me of when Feiger was running for governor. I listened to him on a radio show when one of his opponents said they would fix the legal system if elected. The person was maybe Engler but he claimed that he would make it so no one could sue you if they broke their arm breaking into your house. Feiger challenged him on that and said it was complete folklore and never happened in Michigan and he challenged the opponent to produce a single case where that ever happened. No case was ever produced.

 

I don't rely on folklore when making my voting decisions. I research the issues.

Apparently then that tax is specific to business equipment only? I have no problem with that. If that is the case the new schema will eliminate it. Whether or not the the new funding scheme will suffice to support our local needs is in question. That tax issues have been changed to benefit business at the expense of all others is old news. I only have to mention the tax break given to business recently that is paid for with the equally new tax on retiree pension benefits. Am I somehow wrong?

Edited by GregS
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and builds in a new even handed tax...........who pays for this  NEW EVEN HANDED TAX??   As u say,,, don't rely on folklore when making my voting decisions. I research the issues.??/ Who pays for the NEW TAX   i see this this is going to pass,,, now soon my tax  millage will be going up for me  , that will not be folklore

Edited by cristinew
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well when the police , dems and repubs all support it , and they sell it as both a tax cut, common sense and job creator... theres really not much you can convince people otherwise.

 

plus probably every business and small business told its employees to vote a certain way... including all of the automakers

 

the only people opposing it are the rabble rousers, the disgruntled internet commentators and ... jim fouts mayor of warren.

Edited by t-pain
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I owned and operated a business in Michigan for many years and can tell you first hand that that State of Michigan never does anything that helps small businesses. Never. Ever.

 

This bill helps companies that have huge fixed assets like GM, Ford etc.

 

If you have $50,000 worth of equipment you'll only pay around $3000 in tax. This is offset by an income tax exemption of 35% of the amount paid in personal property tax. So your out of pocket expense would be under $2000. $40 bucks a week is hardly a deal breaker.

 

This is different if you own many billions of dollars of equipment. Then that 6 mils turns into real money.

 

If you have a good accountant you'll never pay more than a token amount in taxes anyway. It's not like you wage slaves who have it taken every week and then fight to get it back.

 

The argument that makes me laugh is the one that it creates jobs.

 

If a company saves money in taxes will that make their business improve enough to justify hiring more workers? Or, will they just say,"Gosh I just saved $2000! I'm going to hire six more employees!"

 

Trickle down economics, they just don't like to say what is trickling and where it's trickling to.

 

 

corporate-welfareCEO.jpg

 

"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes," - Leona Helmsley

Edited by Wild Bill
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It boggles the mind how examples are given of business tax cuts which have improved the economy and yet you just steam roll over it like nothing was said.  Like I said, Granholm's enormous incentive to the film industry brought in $6 to the state for every $1 of incentive given by the state.  After Snyder chopped the incentive much lower the film industry began to bail from this state for states with a more favorable climate.  Snyder later realized his mistake and upped the incentive but not to its original amount.  The accounting firm Ernst and Young did an accounting and determined that $6 came into this state for every $1 incentive given by the state.  Do people not get that? 

 

Tax a company at a high enough rate and as soon as it becomes better for their bottom line to go to a more favorable tax environment in another state then they are gone. No different than when you aren't happy with allstate so you spend 15 minutes on the phone with Geico.  If the rate is lower you will change insurance companies. Easy peezy and obvious math.

 

And wild bill you can't write off PPT paid by your corporation through your personal income tax. Where on earth are you coming up with that?

Edited by FranksHotPeppersAndMarijuana
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No it wasn't repealed. You are becoming very seriously annoying.  Get your facts straight.  What you are writing about was one step necessary for repeal but repeal couldn't occur without voter approval to levy the state business use tax to cover the money lost over eliminating the PPT. You seriously don't get this which is why you shouldn't write as if you do. If the voters didn't approve prop1 then the legislation signed by Snyder would be null and void due to the contingency on the yes vote on prop1.

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It boggles the mind how examples are given of business tax cuts which have improved the economy and yet you just steam roll over it like nothing was said.  Like I said, Granholm's enormous incentive to the film industry brought in $6 to the state for every $1 of incentive given by the state.  After Snyder chopped the incentive much lower the film industry began to bail from this state for states with a more favorable climate.  Snyder later realized his mistake and upped the incentive but not to its original amount.  The accounting firm Ernst and Young did an accounting and determined that $6 came into this state for every $1 incentive given by the state.  Do people not get that? 

 

Tax a company at a high enough rate and as soon as it becomes better for their bottom line to go to a more favorable tax environment in another state then they are gone. No different than when you aren't happy with allstate so you spend 15 minutes on the phone with Geico.  If the rate is lower you will change insurance companies. Easy peezy and obvious math.

 

And wild bill you can't write off PPT paid by your corporation through your personal income tax. Where on earth are you coming up with that?

And $5 of those $6 left the state for the owners who live in NY and Ca.  The system is broken.  The rich couldn't get any richer so we went with inflation to water down the money so the rich could get a bigger cut.  Anything that has been taken time to write up is somehow benefitting those that had it written up in the first place. Monsanto, GM, BK and Pepsi et al have people to write up these proposals.  The people have lost.  If there was one politician out there not beholden to the money backing them, they would've lost in the system we have anyway.  Look what's happening now with the MMMA, everyone and their brother/sister has their hands in it, including LAW ENFORCEMENT.  Aren't they only supposed to enforce the laws, not write them.  The only reason they're moving thru is because of donations.  The people just don't have the money to buy fairness or liberty.

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