Is Using Marijuana A Sin?

[mibrains]

i agree slipstar with you when you say voicing ones opinions is not trollish..

 

in this thread i have just read mostly valid attempts to understand each persons perspective.

 

i like your posts on this topic wulf and can instantly tell you have a deep understanding and knowledge of the history involved with religions.

 

all religions have extremest sects in them..

 

we are human after all.

 

i believe in God the almighty absolutely and unequivocally. 

 

i was raised catholic but am no longer.

 

i am now a Christian ordained minister..

 

i feel very few if any religions have a true understanding of God.

 

thank you everyone for contributing to this thread.

 

it is difficult to discuss religion and remain civil...

[slipstar059]

I dont know why but a lot of people hear the word atheist, and immediately think of someone who hates, but it isn't true, I'm less Dawkins, more Hitchens. To be honest, I'm Indifferent to people's beliefs, but I don't think that makes me any better than them. I judge people on their personality, and quite frankly if I meet someone that is friendly to me, I'll be just as friendly back. I have no idea why any two people would have a physical confrontation ever.

Edited November 7, 2014 by slipstar059

[trichcycler]

I'll add that I am not the only person in this thread that hopes this remains civil, for the wealth of knowledge that is and could continue to be offered here could become the eye openers necessary to bring community members even closer to unity. this is a good beginning. I suspect it to derail eventually, and that's ok too, I'll do my part to keep it righteous, while hoping it doesn't vanish.

 

peace all, and thank you for broaching this difficult subject

[Wulf Nesthead]

grass, that was a just and wise post.

Thank you.

brains, the reason I characterized slipstar's first posts to this thread the way I did was because they served only to call the Christian religion into question, which is outside the scope of this thread.  If it was just the one about not believing in the existence of sin, that's perfectly in line with the topic and spirit of this thread.  To post simply to discredit an entire faith, I feel, is not so in line, and to the observer (me) this suggests less of interest in posting one's viewpoint on sin and its relation--or not--to cannabis, and more an interest in discrediting the Christian viewpoint.

Slip, I'm sorry if I misread your intention and was overly critical of your posts.  I take back the troll remark.

Please accept my apology.  If not, that's cool too.

Peace to all.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Wulf Nesthead

[solabeirtan]

I share these feelings too. Appreciate the thoughtful and encouraging dialogue also. And I share  respect for others beliefs and also that Religion has been tarnished by the powers that be for their benefit. For anyone that believes that Religion was totally responsible for the crusades or for that matter the ' Troubles '  in NI is very naive....  or what is going on in the Middle Earth today.

 

s/  I suppose the best we can hope for is for a little more patience [...which was not displayed, so much, in the previous ilk ] which WILL lead to  better understanding. And with a little help *, a better solution...   peace

Edited November 11, 2014 by solabeirtan

[Wulf Nesthead]

Middle Earth...would you happen to be Asatru or ASH by chance?

[solabeirtan]

Like to keep an open mind. Not dedicated to any particular flavor of the ancient polythiestic/pagan religions,  I have only done preliminary inquiries.  What I do appreciate and respect  about them are they're links/ties to Nature. 

[jointedone]

Hey Wulf. Aren't you sinning as a Muslim even speaking to us infidels?  It's just a question,I don't know any muslims to ask.

[Wild Bill]

Sin in any religion always seems to be things that human beings are naturally inclined to do. Like having sex or getting intoxicated.

 

These natural inclinations will cause eternal damnation unless magic of some kind is undertaken to save the sinner. The sinner must become totally reliant and subservient to the religion in order to be redeemed from his evil acts.

 

Then the hat is passed. (God always needs cash)

[Kingdiamond]

If using marijuana is a sin I should be broke out in a bright blue flame because ive been smoking off and on since 72 .

[Wulf Nesthead]

Hey Wulf. Aren't you sinning as a Muslim even speaking to us infidels?  It's just a question,I don't know any muslims to ask.

 

?

Wow but...no. 

Wherever you got that idea, don't trust it as a source anymore.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Wulf Nesthead

[jointedone]

Oh.

Edited November 14, 2014 by jointedone

[knucklehead bob]

Yer all a bunch of sinners and blasphemers and your all gonna rot in hell  

Edited November 14, 2014 by knucklehead bob

[jointedone]

LOL,good. Most of my friends will probably be there. You crack me up.

[phaquetoo]

we die in the end anyways. after all questions are examined, the only one left is when and how to end ones life. (some famous dude, Nitchze maybe?)

I have been interested in the curan/muslim religion for a long time, no not to join but to try and understand, muslims have different sects like all other religions, I met a muslim man his wife and mother inlaw at a friends house in port sanilac, his wife and mother were wearing bikini's..he grew up in turkey and was in their military, they are a muslim country but not radical, he said their brand or sect is not extreme or sharia law, I could not stop asking this guy questions and him me, it was one of the best conversations I have ever has with a moderate muslim,,,,I actualy was watchin vidoe's last nite of muslim ways and what I assume to be a way to get people into the religion, it was very interesting and I can see how they sell it to people and most of all people of color in prison.

 

Shouldn't that be how it is though? Should Americans be meddling in the Mid East?

I ask myself that every day, should we be the police of the world, I would have to say if people are getting killed for hashish maybe their is a need for the U.S to step up, and Im not real happy about some muslim country's having nuclear weapons capabilitys, and yes I know the u.s was the only one that used and atom bomb to this day!

 

No, that's cool.  I apologize if my tone was brusque; you were probably getting some blowback from when I was addressing the troll's posts.  I'm sorry.

I'll be happy to answer more in depth, but it won't take long inshallah.

Last I checked most scholars were of the opinion that khat is haram.  There are probably some Yemeni scholars who think otherwise, after all it's a big part of Yemeni culture.  It's definitely a regional thing though. 

It may be instructive to reflect that even if all the men, women, and children of Yemen--including babies at the breast--chewed khat, it's still less than 2% of Muslims worldwide (about 1.7%).  For comparison, the percentage of sociopaths in a population is supposed to be between 2% and 4%.  Not saying they are sociopaths, mind, just that it's a (comparatively) small number.

Having studied ethnobotany for fifteen years (as a dilettante), I've always been curious about khat.  It loses its efficacy after forty eight hours or so, so black market khat obtained elsewhere is expensive as--well, something very expensive.

Those who chew it probably consider either that it's not a sin or that it's a minor one, or believe it's a sin but don't particularly care.

When I read the amount of posts you have and when you joined I would have to think you are the troll, but why do we have to call people trolls?  Its like calling people arse holes or phaq heads!  If we are to beleive in a man made book than you would see they have had holy wars in the middle east since the beginning of life!

 

I didn't research "imams that are dicks" my search terms were marijuana/Islam. I simply veered the conversation back to the topic of how religions regard camnabis use, by using videos, of Muslim "holy" leaders. I don't see how joining in a conversation and posting those videos was trollish, in any way. The death sentences handed out for hash possession are rampant accross all middle eastern countries. What your doing is a sin to people of your faith, and your trying to justify it.

It is not trollish. but you may have put for and against vids up, and again if christians are to beleive in the bible than jesus was sacrificed to absorb our sins!

 

i agree slipstar with you when you say voicing ones opinions is not trollish..

 

in this thread i have just read mostly valid attempts to understand each persons perspective.

 

i like your posts on this topic wulf and can instantly tell you have a deep understanding and knowledge of the history involved with religions.

 

all religions have extremest sects in them..

 

we are human after all.

 

i believe in God the almighty absolutely and unequivocally. 

 

i was raised catholic but am no longer.

 

i am now a Christian ordained minister..

 

i feel very few if any religions have a true understanding of God.

 

thank you everyone for contributing to this thread.

 

it is difficult to discuss religion and remain civil...

I also was baptised catholic when I was a baby, I went thru all of the motions caticism, first communion and after that my mother stopped going, and than a few yrs later she would start going and drag us kids with her, after I married my sons mother I got rebaptised  in a baptist church, I married my first wife in a assembly of god church, her choice that is where he mother was going to church and draging her, her preacher visited her home and broke all of her rock and roll tapes and other things he said was evil, after we were married by pastor fred, when ever we would visit my parents up in roscomon county we would go to his church, no matter when I was there he bad mouthed the religion I was in, first he bashed the catholics when I was at his service, and it was one of them services where he laid hands on members and they passed out, and in the pews people would start talking in tounges out of no where, one of the toung talkers was dressed like a hooker and her mate looked like a cow boy and he was relaying what his partner/wife was sayiing in toung's, and people were passin out from the preachers hand on their heads, and than out of no where he says the catholics arent gonna be on the side of us that go to heaven, I grabbed my wife and walked out of that circus show!

 

The next time she dragged me back there kicking and screaming all the way, we both had been rebaptised baptist, almost the same thing happened and he said the baptist wont be on the side that goes to heaven, I waved on my weigh out and havent spoken to pastor fred again, what realy gets me is he built his church in my back yard I helped clear all of the tree's and did alot of hard work for a man I was not going to be going to his church any how, I was being a nice human being and trying to do my part for what I thought was a holy man, he stabbed me in the back and lost his church only to build another across the road...what I most def noticed about the assembly of god (born agains) church is they are mostly divorcee's and people of need, and they will give the church their last penny and wrote checks to jimmy and tammy baker etc, now you tell me about that part of the christian religion, I beleive any religion that beleives in jesus is christian including catholics, the rest dont beleive in the first coming of christ has happened yet,,,,so christians beleive the 2nd coming is near and it will be the end of the world, and the jews and other religions dont beleive gods son has been here yet and the 1st coming of christ hasnt happened!

 

I have read the bible the whole thing, I need to reread some parts so im more fluant with the religions, I am very interested in the curan and have been watching vidoes of it for now, I will read it one day, because im interested, I would have to say that the bible was one of the best books I have read, I loved reading the old testament, good reading very interesting plus it makes you more aware of the movies the show at easter time lol!

 

I dont have a problem with any religion as long as no one shoves it down my throat, I would rather learn on my own and ask questions after,,,,,so John if I was to get married you could marry us?

 

 

 

 

Peace

[Restorium2]

It is not trollish. but you may have put for and against vids up, and again if christians are to beleive in the bible than jesus was sacrificed to absorb our sins!

 

From what I have been taught and read, Jesus was here to get rid of 'original sin', a specific event involving us getting some sort of awareness. Expressed in the bible as an awareness that made it so we realized we shouldn't be running around naked. All this awareness came from eating the 'forbidden fruit' which made us smarter? So Jesus came here to 'fix' that. If you apply science to this it's very interesting to say the least. Always wondered exactly why Jesus was here in a science kind of way. It wasn't very long ago. It was important and he did a lot while he was here. What part of what he did can we see today? That's the question that haunts me. Did we ingest something that changed us and then he changed us even more? Was it all about our DNA or something even harder to determine with the science we know today? 

Edited November 14, 2014 by Restorium2

[trichcycler]

and what of a "Jesus" character in a dozen religions thousands of years before Christ ?  the flood, the miracles, the virgin birth, on and on all repeated in these long before the Christian biblical account.   how long have we been "smartened" for? would that be the first time?  who smartened us? why ?

[jointedone]

Stop talking about how bad Christians and Catholics are. At least we live in the correct century and don't behead people on the streets then put it on YouTube.  It is extremely offensive to some people here, I am  a Catholic and my husband is a Jew.  But I bet that won't matter,will it?

[phaquetoo]

Stop talking about how bad Christians and Catholics are. At least we live in the correct century and don't behead people on the streets then put it on YouTube.  It is extremely offensive to some people here, I am  a Catholic and my husband is a Jew.  But I bet that won't matter,will it?

I didnt think we were bad mouthing a paticular religion, maybe a few sects in a few religions,

 

I can one up ya on the religion thing lmao

 

My mother is a lebaneese german jew who grew up catholic and went to catholic schools, her last name was rosenbaum and the preist use to call her his lil jew girl!

 

since you can only be a jew from your mothers blood that makes me a lebanese german jew, catholic, baptist christian, I dont practice any religon. jewish blood you are born into if you dont practice judism than you are what ever religion you choose like every one else....

 

maybe that is why im an arse at times. I have a war going on in my head,,,,,chistian lebanees, german jew. american believer in a higher power!

 

Peace

 

I also beleive in science and the big bang theory, I truly dont know how we can beleive the science part and the religion part they contradict each other, There are many many why's involved!

 

edit= I beleive catholics are christians and so are all religions that believe in jesus, but that is only my opinion!

Edited November 14, 2014 by phaquetoo

[jointedone]

Oh Phaq,you are something else!   One happy guy! I bet you never met a stranger, you have a real nice way of getting along with people. His Mother and Grandmother were Jews. His Grandmother came over from Poland to escape the Nazis.His Mother was born here. Yep,we are all a mixture of all kinds,I like watching those ancient aliens shows. Kinda cool to think we are all made of star stuff. 

[Highlander]

Like you Phaque, I've always been interested in other people, cultures, and religions.  A few years ago, I met a Muslim and began asking him questions – not because I was the least bit interested in becoming a Muslim but because I wanted to learn more. 

 

He invited me to an open house at the Flint Islamic Center.  They had a guest speaker who was a former Christian turned Muslim scholar.  He asked the crowd, “How many of you are not Muslim?”  A few of us raised our hands.  Then he asked, “How many are Muslim?”  Most everyone else raised their hand.  Then he said “OK for you non-Muslims, there are the terrorists.”  I appreciated him keeping it light-hearted.

 

My new Muslim friend then invited me to dinner at his house with another Syrian Muslin, named, (no kidding) Dr. Hashish.  I actually went to a few dinners at their homes.  We’d sit in the living room and talk for awhile, while you could hear females in the kitchen and dining room.  Then we’d move to the dining room where the women were GONE and there was a huge feast for us – food for 20 people to feed only the three of us (and some incredible food too, I might add).  I appreciated the hospitality, but it was a little bit strange to me.

 

I took two things away from those meetings.  1. The Muslims told me how they venerate Mary and Jesus and other characters from the “Christian” bible.  They just happened to believe that Jesus wasn’t the Messiah.  They seemed more like Christians than unlike.  The second thing, and more important, was that they said that Islam teaches you that if you do good, you will be rewarded in this life.  This was in stark contrast to the Christianity I was raised with, as we were taught that it pretty much didn’t matter how terrible you were, but as long as you accepted Jesus as the son of God who died for our sins, you’d have a place in heaven. 

 

Edited to add:  I asked Dr. Hashish what he thought of alcohol, marijuana, and other such stuff.  He was definitely anti-alcohol and said that Islam teaches that alcohol is a sin because it is bad for your body, and  that your body is a gift from god, so any harm you purposefully cause to your body is a sin.  He had no such strong feelings about MJ, maybe because as a Dr. he was educated enough to see that there are benefits and few, if any, significant health concerns with using marijuana.  So I got the impression that he felt that if MJ is not physically or emotionally harmful, then it probably isn't a sin...and that "drugs" aren't a sin just because they are fun but because (if) they are damaging to the body and mind.

 

Myself, I don’t see religion as anything more than organized ways to control the masses.  That’s simply my opinion, and I respect the opinions of others who don’t agree.  But if I were to pick a religion to be real, it would be one that rewards people today for solid behavior – not one that lets you do whatever you want and you still get to heaven as long as you’re “saved” before you finally die.  That just doesn’t seem to be a good way to motivate people to make  the world a better place.

 

Myself, I think the Muslims get a bad rap.  The most under-educated, poor, unstable and undeveloped places in the world are in Africa and the Middle East.  These conditions make it much easier for people to use religion to influence other people into a gang mentality.  Non-Muslim people in Africa have been terrible to each other forever.  So, in my view, it isn’t Islam that makes people violent, it is the overall culture/wealth/political climate that allows for many people to be held-down, which provides the perfect breeding ground for religious zealots to take advantage of a religion to advance their own agenda.

 

Sure, the mid east is a mess.  But is it a mess because it is mostly Muslim?  Or is it a mess because after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in WWI, the Allies divided up the region as spoils of war and drew political boundaries based on what served the Allies’ economic and strategic interests rather than what made the most sense for the people who lived there?  Case in point – the Kurds being drawn into an area spanning Turkey and Iraq.  So now you have a bunch of PO’ed Kurds who want to recruit people  to fight.  And what’s the best way to motivate people to fight?  Convince them that god wants them to fight.

 

Regardless whose religion is right and whose is wrong, it is undeniable that people have taken advantage of religion for thousands of year to control the masses.  Too many sheep and not enough shepherds.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Highlander

[jointedone]

Then if you are that open minded,you won't criticize me for my beliefs. Please give non muslims the same respect you obviously have for muslims.. That's all. Our Country was not founded on muslim beliefs,it was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs. And any "muslim" who says he is friends with you,an infidel, is not following the true beliefs of mohammed. Read the Quaran yourself. Chairman Mao said religion was the opiate of the masses. We can THINK whatever we want. Actions speak louder than words,don't they? Last time I looked I didn't see any Christians beheading someone in public and screaming they are doing it for some godlike figure. No wonder muslims think Americans are weak.Some of us are. And some of us aren't. OPUS DEI

Edited November 15, 2014 by jointedone

[solabeirtan]

How many were killed in Gaza 2014?

[jointedone]

Are you talking to me?  How many what?  Cats? I don't understand the question. I am simple minded,you have to explain it to me.

[solabeirtan]

you want graphics or what ? ...jk.  Old age should be for everyone!