The Agony Of Defeat - What Now?

[medmanmike]

Pain I'm not whining.

 

I'm just saying that that we as a hole need to come togather, under one flag. And not be separated.

I agree.  But, how does one go about organizing all the various factions (MMPA, MPP, ASA, etc.) in the State to come together under one goal?  If WE (mj community) can't come together, how can we expect a disparate group of politicians to do so?  IMHO there are just too many "agendas" in the Leg. to make this work.  I'm beginning to think the only way to make this happen is to go all out for a vote (again!) by the people for what they (WE) want! (full legalization or at least decriminalization)  Time to stop screwing around with people who say one thing and do another! 

[Restorium2]

I agree.  But, how does one go about organizing all the various factions (MMPA, MPP, ASA, etc.) in the State to come together under one goal?  If WE (mj community) can't come together, how can we expect a disparate group of politicians to do so?  IMHO there are just too many "agendas" in the Leg. to make this work.  I'm beginning to think the only way to make this happen is to go all out for a vote (again!) by the people for what they (WE) want! (full legalization or at least decriminalization)  Time to stop screwing around with people who say one thing and do another! 

We have all 'come together' before. And all the 'factions' sent a letter to ALL the legislators. Hand delivered. Look at my signature for the only ones who voted with us. The legislators are the problem, not us. 

[medmanmike]

Let's talk specifics here, and it may become clearer.

 

The medical marihuana act passed because the general populace wanted to stop patients and caregivers from being arrested, prosecuted, and jailed. I am simply not so sure that the same inclination or desire exists for those without medical need. I think there are far more people in the general populace willing to treat marijuana as a therapeutic substance than willing to treat it as a commonly available (and used) intoxicant (like alcohol).

 

From what I have seen, those thinking full legalization/ending prohibition is a slam dunk with the voters do not well understand the opposition. I also don't think it is the solution to most of the problems faced by patients, such as housing issues, employment issues, custody issues, treatment of children with debilitating diseases, etc.

 

In fact, I have come to see the confusion between medical marijuana and "recreational" marijuana as a major contributor to the headaches encountered by patients in the pursuit of their daily lives:

1) patients in apartments getting harassed by other tenants by way of management;

2) patients getting fired from a job, or not hired for a job;

3) patients being denied custody of their children because of medical marijuana use;

4) patients subject to criminal penalties for treating their children for autism and other conditions not sanctioned under the act.

 

Everyone has their own opinion on this subject, about what would be best, etc. The choice of where to spend one's time and efforts is never easy, but I truly believe we cannot go wrong supporting the medical use of marijuana as allowed by the act. Compassion Clubs were great for access, they could be made better by more dedicated hands.

Zap,  you make some good points.  Regarding the four - wouldn't full legalization, for example, solve all of these problems?  Isn't it because of the current law that these four issues are issues?  If pot was legal, or just a ticket, maybe many if not all of these issues would go awayl

 

Admittedly, I'm late to the game, and certainly don't have a good understanding of what you, Hayduke and others have/are doing for the cause.  I know it's never simple, and like most things in life, there's a game to be played to get what one wants.  However, I firmly believe that if we only focus on what ISN'T, we'll never get what could be.  A wise person once told me that If I don't make my needs known and ask for what I want, then I'll never get what I want!

 

What would be the chances of getting representation from each of the advocacy groups in the state and have a pow wow to discuss a strategy for moving forward?  Is there one group with more clout than others? Is there any one person(s) who would step up and lead?

 

Again, let me apologize for my newness and perhaps naivety as I really don't have a clue as to the lobbying and advocacy that goes on behind the scenes, but there is power in numbers, as we've recently seen by the lobbying done by the Sherrifs Assoc., etc.

 

I, for one, am ready to "go public" and roll up my sleeves for 2016!

 

PS - for what it's worth, I've inquired on this site, and with some of the aforementioned groups about doing advocacy for the cause and I've gotten virtual no responses from any of them, except to "call my legislators."  That's fine, but when they (Meekhof) won't even return my emails or calls, what is one suppose to do?

[Restorium2]

Anything you think of, any plan at all, still has to get approved by the same people who just said NO.

 

Even if the voters vote something in the legislators can alter it to what they want it to be. 

 

It's very dangerous to keep asking these people for things because it opens the door for going backwards.

 

People need to understand this so we don't get flogged worse. 

[bobandtorey]

 And it's funny how they double-spoke in there on the very last day! We should not incentivise the profit of a drug, and we want only commercial grows. Wait what???

 

from the front lines in Lansing this person was there

[medmanmike]

We have a law that needs to be implemented. I am fighting to implement it. I will continue, regardless of what others do.

 

You must agree that if it had been properly implemented, we'd be in good shape now, right?

Ok, I agree. TELL ME WHAT I CAN DO TO HELP GET IT IMPLEMENTED CORRECTLY?  PLEASE don't tell me to contact my legislator...

[medmanmike]

How are you going to fight? Tell me a concrete plan that's workable. I will jump right in - this ol Hippie is pissed. But don't tell me your going through the legislators again - that's clearly not working as evidenced by yesterday

This ol' hippie is pissed too!  Time to start a revolution!!

[Restorium2]

Ok, I agree. TELL ME WHAT I CAN DO TO HELP GET IT IMPLEMENTED CORRECTLY?  PLEASE don't tell me to contact my legislator...

We could push the right concentrates case to the Supreme Court while we are waiting to get the right legislators voted in. There's not much wiggle room.

[bobandtorey]

Zap,  you make some good points.  Regarding the four - wouldn't full legalization, for example, solve all of these problems?  Isn't it because of the current law that these four issues are issues?  If pot was legal, or just a ticket, maybe many if not all of these issues would go awayl

 

Admittedly, I'm late to the game, and certainly don't have a good understanding of what you, Hayduke and others have/are doing for the cause.  I know it's never simple, and like most things in life, there's a game to be played to get what one wants.  However, I firmly believe that if we only focus on what ISN'T, we'll never get what could be.  A wise person once told me that If I don't make my needs known and ask for what I want, then I'll never get what I want!

 

What would be the chances of getting representation from each of the advocacy groups in the state and have a pow wow to discuss a strategy for moving forward?  Is there one group with more clout than others? Is there any one person(s) who would step up and lead?

 

Again, let me apologize for my newness and perhaps naivety as I really don't have a clue as to the lobbying and advocacy that goes on behind the scenes, but there is power in numbers, as we've recently seen by the lobbying done by the Sherrifs Assoc., etc.

 

I, for one, am ready to "go public" and roll up my sleeves for 2016!

 

PS - for what it's worth, I've inquired on this site, and with some of the aforementioned groups about doing advocacy for the cause and I've gotten virtual no responses from any of them, except to "call my legislators."  That's fine, but when they (Meekhof) won't even return my emails or calls, what is one suppose to do?

 

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[medmanmike]

Cap'n,... what happened yesterday was that after 2 years of hard work, we managed to protect the Act from a lot of people who wish to do harm to it.  It will be even worse next session.

 

We once again saved the Act.  "They" still want to simply get rid of this law. Period.  If we do not defend it, it will be gone.  We are lucky it is not already gone.

 

 Matt Abel ran a Const. Amendment campaign under the auspices of what YOU believe and it failed miserably. I mean seriously miserably.  There is not the support for what you believe in Capn Kush.  Remove yourself from your reality bubble.  The people do not support your position. (not that I don't).

 

We can pass legalization, and it can be voted out the next session with a simple vote.  You have to make it stick. Passing it is the easy part. Keeping it is the real fight.

 

 I suspect 2018 or 2020 we will see a legitimate run at some legalization type of initiative.  The money may become available at that time.

 

 Until then,... we must defend what we have.

Why wait so long?  Is there something going on that we're not privy too?  I read this blog daily and follow many threads.  I always get the sense that some of those more involved in behind the scenes work are holding back something.  I'm not suggesting it's malicious and maybe its the kind of thing you don't want to let the cat out of the bag, but we're out here frustrated as hell and you and others keep saying, "stay the course."  Fine.  But, I need a little bit more than this to hang my hat on.

[medmanmike]

Everyone can help. :-)  Well, almost everyone. There are some real putz's in the world,... but everyone can help. :-)

Please, tell me how.

[Restorium2]

Because we have to change the players to get a different vote. We didn't make much headway the last election cycle. Might take even longer than the estimate. 

[bobandtorey]

I go to meeting their you will find out more then what we read here because no one wants the other side (Leo) to know the plan 

[medmanmike]

Go to court cases, please. Anyone can do that, and more. Start a Compassion Club, not a dispensary. Teach people how to use medical marijuana. All of these things help.

Good ideas!!  I haven't even looked, but do local  courts post cases on a web site somewhere so we can find out when MJ case come up?

[bobandtorey]

Because we have to change the players to get a different vote. We didn't make much headway the last election cycle. Might take even longer than the estimate. 

 

 

Nor the one before that

[+greaterclare]

I agree thats  the way it happened but it didn't start out like that as you know i have/had been to many clubs until i found out cannabis was being transferred  and if it wasn't the people would not come back  and clubs would closes

 

I don't even know what happen to the MOCC that i helped start up at first it was the Oakland County C.C    

 

What happen to all that $$$ that are club had/has ?

At Central Michigan Compassion Club, I have paid speakers to come in, did in service demonstrations on growing, how to properly clone, give accurate information regarding mmmp laws, even brought in a lawyer to answer questions in a round table forum. All this without asking for a dime from members. My average numbers at the club right now is around 5-7 people every two weeks. Usually 4 of them are looking for meds, and never come back- and usually leave in the middle of an in-service. 3 years ago my numbers were around 25 a week, and people wanted to work towards all the things we are discussing here right now. Morale is bad in the medical marijuana community, many are going back underground, or simply going back to pharma for pain control.

[medmanmike]

*nods*

 

Medical is an issue all to itself.  We are not your stepping stone.

 

 Even when legalized is some form or fashion,... medical will exist on its own in a different sphere. 

 

Remember whose backs your riding on to accomplish your dreams.

Mal, you and Zap are losing me.  It seems you're talking about something "private" and hint around but never really say what it is. Ex. "medical is an issue all to itself".  What is the other issue?  I feel like I'm in the dark sometimes...  Look, I really applaud what you guys are doing.  It just feels like something is being held back.  That you're not giving us all the information.  Am I just paranoid (no, I'm not under the influence :-) or what?

 

Speaking for myself, I'm pretty bummed about what happened the last couple of days so I'm ranting a bit, but please don't keep us in the dark.  I want to help, but to do so, I need to know the bigger picture. The last thing I want to do is jump on a bandwagon that is doomed for failure.

 

How about a thread sea

[bobandtorey]

I don't think contacting your legislator is the right thing to do, unless you really think changing the law is the solution. Legislators write and change laws. I do think Legislators should be contacted in defense of bad laws and amendments, of course. It is the only way.

 

I realize I am not communicating well on this issue, but I truly believe the answer is Compassion Clubs, always and still. I do realize how frustrating they can be when things don't just take right off due to patients' and caregivers' desire (like most people) for immediate gratification; I ran one myself for five years, and will likely restart meetings in the new year.

 

Compassion Clubs teach people how to not be arrested while using medical marijuana. I guarantee that every single person in my club is still using marijuana medically, despite the fact that a many people around the state think the law is ruined. Those is Birmingham Compassion still feel protected because of their education. While Oakland County is awful across the board on the issue of marijuana, even medical, I can say that there has never been any law enforcement activity directed at Birmingham Compassion, even though our Sheriff is the guy that seemingly scuttled the bills single-handedly. By the way, he was also a major contributor and activist in the anti-MMMA group prior to the 2008 vote, the Coalition Protecting Michigan's Kids, so none of this behavior is a surprise.

 

http://ballotpedia.org/Michigan_Medical_Marijuana_Initiative,_Proposal_1_%282008%29

 

(scroll down to opponents)

 

Can you imagine what goes on in the heads of those people, and what they might be willing to do and say to keep marijuana from being legal?

Thank you

you have always had great meeting and i have and will come because i feel safe at them

Edited December 20, 2014 by bobandtorey

[jointedone]

Michigan is NOT a red state,it is a blue state,and has always been. What was the vote for our law,what percent dem and rep? Who voted yes and what age groups supported it? Public facts,you can find how counties and precincts voted for the whole state. When you talk like ignorant potheads,nobody is going to take you seriously. Take responsibility for your own actions,what do you think people see? A tent at a State park with reefer smell pouring out while you are there with your children? Don't cut off your nose to spite your own face.

[bobandtorey]

At Central Michigan Compassion Club, I have paid speakers to come in, did in service demonstrations on growing, how to properly clone, give accurate information regarding mmmp laws, even brought in a lawyer to answer questions in a round table forum. All this without asking for a dime from members. My average numbers at the club right now is around 5-7 people every two weeks. Usually 4 of them are looking for meds, and never come back- and usually leave in the middle of an in-service. 3 years ago my numbers were around 25 a week, and people wanted to work towards all the things we are discussing here right now. Morale is bad in the medical marijuana community, many are going back underground, or simply going back to pharma for pain control.

Thank you for all you do

[+greaterclare]

Thank you for all you do

It's obviously not enough.

[medmanmike]

I understand your confusion, but on each of these issues you have to ask yourself: if marijuana were treated like alcohol or tobacco, would there be protections for any of these things? Employment: no, Housing, no, Custody: no, Treatment for children: certainly not.

 

If you get sent to get a blood test at work and you have alcohol in your system, there is no protection for you. If your neighbor in the apartment building complains of your cigar smoke, it will result in your reprimand. Judges routinely order people to stop drinking in family court. There is no legality for treating children with alcohol or cigs, of course. Those are real-world examples of why treating marijuana like alcohol is not the solution to most of the problem patients and their caregivers face.

Good points.  However, alcohol, cigars and tobacco are legal.  One might be reprimanded for being drunk at work and perhaps fired, but they won't go to jail. 

[bobandtorey]

It's obviously not enough.

i disagree with out it more would be arrest i say the same thing somedays when i get calls from others that have already been raided telling me they didn't know the Law had changed and asking me what should they do 

 

I alway first send them here and to the PGT show

[jointedone]

Wait until the State decides NOT to allow SSI or anyone on public assistance to be an MMJ pt. You can't afford food,but you can afford to buy pot? The working poor  are getting pretty sick of this crap. And all it is doing is making dope dealers rich. Not CGs,but dope dealers.

[bobandtorey]

And here is where Compassion Clubs come in; can you imagine if there was a club meeting regularly in every county in the state? There would be information like this available, and support, whenever needed. Also, I believe The Human Solution has a Facebook group that they use to organize courtroom support statewide.

 

Perhaps when you see how the law is being abused by law enforcement and the courts, you'll have more ideas about how to address any issues. I know it inspired me.

 

I do realize it doesn't help with the politics issue. Malamute and I are not holding anything back, but it is seemingly impossible to explain why the politics of the state will not allow a "full legalization" to take root at any time in the near future, by legislature or ballot. It is something you can only realize after years of watching the players and how they work, and how the system is stacked against this type of change. Also, our electoral process in the US suffers from a huge lack of participation, which makes things much worse. There was a lot of hatred toward CPU in the early days because they knew the political calculus on marijuana, and nobody else did.

 

Compassion Clubs help educate for the elections, too.

 

Greaterclare, I am with you. I have had meetings as small as four or five, and averaged about 12-15 for several years, until I stopped holding meetings earlier this year. Trying to engage public participation is very difficult, but is worthy of the effort. Our first meetings in late 2009 had 100+ attendees. It was pretty impressive, but in many cases as soon as they figured out what was up with the law, or getting their medicine from a dispensary, or hooking up with a good caregiver, they went on with their lives and stopped participating. In many ways a victory, but I do agree, frustrating. I still think it is important.

 

Please realize this is all discussion, and I realize I am a chief guilty party for letting the air go out of the tires of the Compassion Clubs. Perhaps this defeat will give new inspiration to this type of community organization. I am open to ideas, and would very much like to get the Compassion Clubs wrangled again into something resembling a cohesive unit.

you have no like button 

 

So i will say it again thank you