The Agony Of Defeat - What Now?

[jointedone]

And here is where Compassion Clubs come in; can you imagine if there was a club meeting regularly in every county in the state? There would be information like this available, and support, whenever needed. Also, I believe The Human Solution has a Facebook group that they use to organize courtroom support statewide.

 

Perhaps when you see how the law is being abused by law enforcement and the courts, you'll have more ideas about how to address any issues. I know it inspired me.

 

I do realize it doesn't help with the politics issue. Malamute and I are not holding anything back, but it is seemingly impossible to explain why the politics of the state will not allow a "full legalization" to take root at any time in the near future, by legislature or ballot. It is something you can only realize after years of watching the players and how they work, and how the system is stacked against this type of change. Also, our electoral process in the US suffers from a huge lack of participation, which makes things much worse. There was a lot of hatred toward CPU in the early days because they knew the political calculus on marijuana, and nobody else did.

 

Compassion Clubs help educate for the elections, too.

 

Greaterclare, I am with you. I have had meetings as small as four or five, and averaged about 12-15 for several years, until I stopped holding meetings earlier this year. Trying to engage public participation is very difficult, but is worthy of the effort. Our first meetings in late 2009 had 100+ attendees. It was pretty impressive, but in many cases as soon as they figured out what was up with the law, or getting their medicine from a dispensary, or hooking up with a good caregiver, they went on with their lives and stopped participating. In many ways a victory, but I do agree, frustrating. I still think it is important.

 

Please realize this is all discussion, and I realize I am a chief guilty party for letting the air go out of the tires of the Compassion Clubs. Perhaps this defeat will give new inspiration to this type of community organization. I am open to ideas, and would very much like to get the Compassion Clubs wrangled again into something resembling a cohesive unit.

 Doesn't look that way when a "compassion club" thumbs it's nose at the law and screws things up for the rest of us just minding our own business. I can guarantee 2 townships that did vote YES in 2008 won't vote that way again.

[bobandtorey]

 

Robin comes in at about 15 minutes.

Edited December 20, 2014 by bobandtorey

[Natesilver]

Zap I think you are prematurely discounting the possibility of an initiated law for legalization (whether that be 2016 or later). Regardless of whether big money groups jump in due to polling numbers (which would make sig gathering exponentially easier), it may still be feasible to execute such an effort that is not reminiscent of epic failures of the past. Perhaps without mpp involvement the language could be tailor suited to the local desires in mi?

[bobandtorey]

Jointedone, the Compassion Clubs have had their own philosophical differences between them. It has resulted in a lot of different types of questionable behavior, and has in some cases caused problems in the eyes of the community they serve. I think this has happened because of a lack of direction, and a breakdown in the unity we once had, if only for a few fleeting months before dispensaries took root. They were subsequently snuffed out by Bill Schuette in February 2011, less than 2 months after he took office based on winning the 2010 election (when the Republican party took control of Michigan).

 

It has been difficult to reach consensus ever since. Perhaps this defeat is what is needed to help people to understand the fundamental purpose of and need for Compassion Clubs in every community across the state.

 

Does anyone know what Compassion Clubs still exist and are holding monthly public meetings? That is the starting point for this project.

None at this time

[bobandtorey]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JFdKEazZxY0

[medmanmike]

And here is where Compassion Clubs come in; can you imagine if there was a club meeting regularly in every county in the state? There would be information like this available, and support, whenever needed. Also, I believe The Human Solution has a Facebook group that they use to organize courtroom support statewide.

 

Perhaps when you see how the law is being abused by law enforcement and the courts, you'll have more ideas about how to address any issues. I know it inspired me.

 

I do realize it doesn't help with the politics issue. Malamute and I are not holding anything back, but it is seemingly impossible to explain why the politics of the state will not allow a "full legalization" to take root at any time in the near future, by legislature or ballot. It is something you can only realize after years of watching the players and how they work, and how the system is stacked against this type of change. Also, our electoral process in the US suffers from a huge lack of participation, which makes things much worse. There was a lot of hatred toward CPU in the early days because they knew the political calculus on marijuana, and nobody else did.

 

Compassion Clubs help educate for the elections, too.

 

Greaterclare, I am with you. I have had meetings as small as four or five, and averaged about 12-15 for several years, until I stopped holding meetings earlier this year. Trying to engage public participation is very difficult, but is worthy of the effort. Our first meetings in late 2009 had 100+ attendees. It was pretty impressive, but in many cases as soon as they figured out what was up with the law, or getting their medicine from a dispensary, or hooking up with a good caregiver, they went on with their lives and stopped participating. In many ways a victory, but I do agree, frustrating. I still think it is important.

 

Please realize this is all discussion, and I realize I am a chief guilty party for letting the air go out of the tires of the Compassion Clubs. Perhaps this defeat will give new inspiration to this type of community organization. I am open to ideas, and would very much like to get the Compassion Clubs wrangled again into something resembling a cohesive unit.

Thank you for the candid reply. I really do applaud the efforts you and others are making. As I said, I'm new to this - August 2013, and can only imagine the angst you and others have gone through since 2008. I'm going to do two things immediately: become a paying member of MMMP and contact a nearby club and get involved.

 

FWIW. I live in Ottawa County, home of Arlan Meekoff and about as red a county as any. I just finish d 6 years of volunteering/technology tutoring at our local senior center. Recently, I proposed holding a forum on Medical Marijauna and the Senior Citizen for members and got shot down. I was told it was "to soon" and the BOD would never approve it. There are many hurdles to overcome. As an educator/trainer for over 40 years I know that "education" is the key for bringing about change. Short of a soapbox on the corner finding the right avenue is difficult. Does the MMMP or other pro mmj groups have any kind of a speakers buruea? I'm ready.

[Restorium2]

People/voters in red counties are the key. You need to find every single wedge you can drive between your legislator and their constituents to get them changed out. Use every issue you can think of. If you have to stand mute on cannabis to make this work in your situation then that's what you will have to do. Get em out! Catch em hating on people and bring those people into a community of people to work with in a common goal, get them out! Someday it will work. It's out path forward. Until that's done then we will not get what we want. Don't pander, get em out!

[Restorium2]

Farmers are powerful right now. That's why Snyder is still the governor. He has them in his pocket. If we could swing some farm communities against the Republican Legislators they have been supporting we could do some serious damage to the Republican base and get some change.

[bobandtorey]

I just reread this comment I made, and must clarify that if a ballot initiative is done, it should be done to remove cannabis penalities rather than focusing on a new scheme for legal marijuana sales. Removing the penalties will provide real help and support to all patients and caregivers; anything else will be used to turn up the heat.

 

The problems patients and caregivers are facing are truly difficult to address, but the removal of all cannabis penalities starts the process.

 

The penalties for cannabis are the following:

 

Manufacture, delivery, possession with intent to deliver (4, 7, or 15 year felonies depending on plant count/weight) - MCL 333.7401

Possession (misdemeanor) - MCL 333.7403

Use (misdemeanor) - MCL 333.7404

 

Improper transport (misdemeanor) - MCL 750.474

 

I just want everyone to understand what's up here. Removing these penalities forces the legislature to make new laws to restrict/regulate cannabis, so any ballot initiative has to address that absolutely certain aftermath.

 

What's more, all of these penalites are based on cannabis being schedule one on the controlled substances schedule in MCL 333.7212, which is completely inconsistent with the passage of the MMMA in 2008. Remember that or it will happen again.

 

Anything that can be construed as an exception to the controlled substances act will be construed as a narrow exception to total illegality, leaving the penalties intact.

If only  people would understand this 

[bobandtorey]

Also the new metro times paper had more then 20 new shops that have opened up  

[Restorium2]

Also the new metro times paper had more then 20 new shops that have opened up  

They are a major part of our problem. Jump the gun law bullies. 

[bobandtorey]

They are a major part of our problem. Jump the gun law bullies. 

Yes it was my point 

 

Thanks

[Restorium2]

When you allow law enforcement to be the deciders whether something exists or not they allow some to exist to placate you into inaction. Law enforcement should be ordered what to do, not given choices. That's what's wrong all over the country with law enforcement.

[Willy]

When you allow law enforcement to be the deciders whether something exists or not they allow some to exist to placate you into inaction. Law enforcement should be ordered what to do, not given choices. That's what's wrong all over the country with law enforcement.

Law enforcement should never be on the deciding points of the laws, they are to be told what to do not say what they want to do.. they are supposed to serve us not dictate us.. They need to be kicked down a few notches..

They are killing people, maiming our children/even taking them away to be raped and murdered, shooting unarmed people, choking them to death, over a few cigarettes...  They are our worse enemy, they are the new Gestapo  in america.. using intimidation, and fear to force compliance...  And its getting worse by the day, Obama wouldn't even stand up to them... so who really runs this country, who is the puppeteer??  ya conspiracy theory..

Edited December 20, 2014 by Willy

[OZONE]

I don't think contacting your legislator is the right thing to do, unless you really think changing the law is the solution. Legislators write and change laws. I do think Legislators should be contacted in defense of bad laws and amendments, of course. It is the only way.

 

I realize I am not communicating well on this issue, but I truly believe the answer is Compassion Clubs, always and still. I do realize how frustrating they can be when things don't just take right off due to patients' and caregivers' desire (like most people) for immediate gratification; I ran one myself for five years, and will likely restart meetings in the new year.

 

Compassion Clubs teach people how to not be arrested while using medical marijuana. I guarantee that every single person in my club is still using marijuana medically, despite the fact that a many people around the state think the law is ruined. Those is Birmingham Compassion still feel protected because of their education. While Oakland County is awful across the board on the issue of marijuana, even medical, I can say that there has never been any law enforcement activity directed at Birmingham Compassion, even though our Sheriff is the guy that seemingly scuttled the bills single-handedly. By the way, he was also a major contributor and activist in the anti-MMMA group prior to the 2008 vote, the Coalition Protecting Michigan's Kids, so none of this behavior is a surprise.

 

http://ballotpedia.org/Michigan_Medical_Marijuana_Initiative,_Proposal_1_%282008%29

 

(scroll down to opponents)

 

Can you imagine what goes on in the heads of those people, and what they might be willing to do and say to keep marijuana from being legal?

 

 

Zap I don't think that blowtard the asshat clown was the only one that killed those bills I believe that slimey slick SENATURD RICK JONES one of the antis main men in the senate had a lot to do with killing these bills blowtard is not smart enough to do it by his self

[Natesilver]

Zap I don't think that blowtard the asshat clown was the only one that killed those bills I believe that slimey slick SENATURD RICK JONES one of the antis main men in the senate had a lot to do with killing these bills blowtard is not smart enough to do it by his self

 

Actually I think Jones would have supported the bills had his landlord bill passed the house. I would save those names for anyone involved in the LEO lobbying

Edited December 20, 2014 by Natesilver

[OZONE]

Actually I think Jones would have supported the bills had his landlord bill passed the house. I would save those names for anyone involved in the LEO lobbying

Prior to his election to the House, Jones worked 33 years in law enforcement, serving more than 30 years with the Eaton County Sheriff Department. He started as a deputy and worked his way up through the ranks as sergeant, lieutenant, and captain before being elected sheriff in 2000. 

 

This should tell you all you want to know about Jones

[Natesilver]

Prior to his election to the House, Jones worked 33 years in law enforcement, serving more than 30 years with the Eaton County Sheriff Department. He started as a deputy and worked his way up through the ranks as sergeant, lieutenant, and captain before being elected sheriff in 2000. 

 

This should tell you all you want to know about Jones

 

Thank you for repeating common knowledge. If you have read anything about the nature of the demise of the bills it would be apparent to you that Jones did not "kill those bills" as you so eloquently stated. In fact, various reporting has suggested that had his landlord bill passed the house he would have supported the bills. But if blindly lashing out at him as the cause of the failure of the bills makes you feel better, go for it.

[OZONE]

I am sorry I did not mean to upset you apparently you are one of Senator Jones cheerleaders have a nice day

[+Malamute]

Why wait so long?  Is there something going on that we're not privy too?  I read this blog daily and follow many threads.  I always get the sense that some of those more involved in behind the scenes work are holding back something.  I'm not suggesting it's malicious and maybe its the kind of thing you don't want to let the cat out of the bag, but we're out here frustrated as hell and you and others keep saying, "stay the course."  Fine.  But, I need a little bit more than this to hang my hat on.

 

Mal, you and Zap are losing me.  It seems you're talking about something "private" and hint around but never really say what it is. Ex. "medical is an issue all to itself".  What is the other issue?  I feel like I'm in the dark sometimes...  Look, I really applaud what you guys are doing.  It just feels like something is being held back.  That you're not giving us all the information.  Am I just paranoid (no, I'm not under the influence :-) or what?

 

Speaking for myself, I'm pretty bummed about what happened the last couple of days so I'm ranting a bit, but please don't keep us in the dark.  I want to help, but to do so, I need to know the bigger picture. The last thing I want to do is jump on a bandwagon that is doomed for failure.

 

How about a thread sea

 

 

Ok,.. macro.

 

We live in a state that is run by republicans with super majority in the Senate, and after last election, an even more dominant majority in the House. They also control the governors office, all administrative offices, the Justice department, the Judgeships and the police unions and other police groups.

 

 Anyone who thinks we live in a "blue" state is delusional. As a matter of fact, Michigan has one of the Reddest governments in the Country.

 

 This is a problem because only 34% of voting Republicans support marijuana, and even a lesser percentage of republican reps/senators support marijuana issues.  We could likely not create a worse government for our issue than we have.  The fact we even still have a medical marijuana law is a miracle unto itself. 

 

 So,.. what can you do?  Well there are two choices here.  Vote in liberal democrats to all offices, take over state agencies, destroy police unions,  vote in marijuana friendlty sheriffs, vote in marijuana friendly judges, vote in a liberal governor to change the tune of all state agencies.

 

or...

 

Vote in Liberal or Libertarian republicans to at least balance the republican influence. If you can bring elected Republican support up to the 34% that are the republican voters,... we have a much better chance at protecting our current law.

 

 Now those issues take along time to achieve, thus showing why legislative solutions are so difficult and on a long time line trajectory.

 

 Using Initiative process.

 

 This is and will be our only real option until the previous elected officials makeup changes.

 

 The problem with initiatives is that volunteers never get enough signatures. Not even close. Maybe 10-20% of signatures needed(typically) You must pay people to get signatures.

Paying people for signatures can become costly.  The State of Michigan and its people did next to nothing to pass the MMMAct in 2008.  We didn't put up the 1.5 million dollars it cost to run the initiative and never had near enough volunteer signature gatherers and almost not enough PAID signature gatherers to get enough signatures. 

 

So, I hear people say they would get signatures,  but they never show up(in sufficient numbers) when needed. 

 

 So,.. Michigan has been offered a dollar for dollar match to run an initiative in 2018.  I am not sure 2018 is the best year for a legalization run because it is an off year election which are dominated by republican voters(refer to 34% support).

 So, in all honesty, the first and best chance we have to get legalization will likely be in 2020 IMHO.  These are just rubber hits the road realities.

[+Malamute]

Let me add,...Michigan still needs to come up with 500,000 bucks to run that initiative(likely).

 

I have doubts we ever clear $100,000 in thebank.  Prove me wrong! Please.

[+Malamute]

Also, let me add that people have been fighting marijuana laws for 80 years now.  It don't come easy... 

 

 Be a part of the solution.  Noone will do it for you. No tooth fairies waiting to drop it in your lap.  If you do not raise thousands of dollars, who will? 

 

Only people who will not let you grow. Only people who have big money interests.  Only people who do not have the common man/womans best interest at heart.

 

Without Michigan putting up near half themoney,  we will not have control of the language that is passed.  Make sure our best legal drafters who have the little guy/girls best interest at heart controls the language. :-)

[trichcycler]

some of our left handed money can be used to diffuse the issues that our right handed monies support.

[Hayduke]

Senator Jones agreed to support HB 5104 if we supported his bill SB 783...

 

He never ever ever said he would support HB 4271... sorry natesilver, it just ain't so...

[painterdan]

Nothing will change as long as the republicans control Lansing,and it don't look like they are going anywhere soon.
All the work people put to get these bills passes the last couple of years and all it took for leo to get them shot down

was a couple last minute speeches.