The Agony Of Defeat - What Now?

[+Malamute]

Just Keep on truckin...

 

 Ya have to push harder and harder, work harder and harder,... push and push and push,,... blood sweat and tears,.... and then suddenly its over without much fanfare. Legality happens. Noone really cares by then. :-)

[bobandtorey]

HB 5104 seems to have been the one bill that had a chance of passing imo and some how the other bill got on the same page i feel 5104 could have passed with out the other 

[t-pain]

That's right, did you guys see how decrim of 1 ounce or less lost in Lapeer by 6 votes?

i think after the recount it was 9 votes

[t-pain]

HB 5104 seems to have been the one bill that had a chance of passing imo and some how the other bill got on the same page i feel 5104 could have passed with out the other 

yes they got fuch'd together , probably when it was pointed out that the MMMA had to be modified to allow patients to sell to disps, because the dispensary act couldnt change a law "in title alone".

 

which is why we all thought 4271 was a half bill. the mmma had penalties for transferring to non-patients and the dispensary act didnt require employees to be patients. hurf durf

[medmanmike]

You may ask, why are the problems patients and caregivers are facing so difficult to address? It is because solving them requires either a change of mind of private individuals, or for the legislature to step out of the box and protect medical cannabis use against some of the same private companies that they depend on for financial support.

 

The employment situation is obvious. To solve it requires the government demanding protections for patients from all private employers, many of whom would simply take the question to federal court and essentially nullify state legislative action. A difficult climb, to say the least, without similar handling of marijuana at the Federal level.

 

The housing situation is similar with regards to controlling private individuals. Rick Jones's SB 783 is a response to settle and clarify patient rights vs landlord rights. In his version, the landlords win.

 

Custody issues only have a chance with a medical card. Judges force people to drug and alcohol test for custody frequently.

 

It should be self-explanatory why legalization like alcohol won't help realize children's medical use. A general purpose decriminalization would help, but of course restrictions on minors would be among the first passed by the legislature after the vote, so we would have to lobby hard to ensure that a parent caregiver could not be arrested or prosecuted for giving it to their children.

 

These are just some comments on the subject, and I realize this is something like looking into a crystal ball, but we have a lot of material to work with after five years on predicting how the government will react to a voter initiative on the subject, and should not ignore our collective efforts (and pain) to gain that unpleasant knowledge.

Zap, thanks for the explanation! I am now beginning to better understand the bigger picture and where you're coming from.????

[medmanmike]

Also, let me add that people have been fighting marijuana laws for 80 years now.  It don't come easy... 

 

 Be a part of the solution.  Noone will do it for you. No tooth fairies waiting to drop it in your lap.  If you do not raise thousands of dollars, who will? 

 

Only people who will not let you grow. Only people who have big money interests.  Only people who do not have the common man/womans best interest at heart.

 

Without Michigan putting up near half themoney,  we will not have control of the language that is passed.  Make sure our best legal drafters who have the little guy/girls best interest at heart controls the language. :-)

Mal, thanks. I'm getting it now. Glad to hear there will be some money available - if we can match it. Don't like "2020", but...

[t-pain]

 

Robin comes in at about 15 minutes.[/size]

robin makes empty threats about showing raids , why threaten? why not just show the injustice? why are you holding back? its not like police are going to change their ways if you play nice with them.

 

i guess npra really didnt learn anything from the process. a shame.

Edited December 21, 2014 by t-pain

[bobandtorey]

Thanks for watching Mr. T- pain one thing we all know is you can't trust them but again imo they have a Bigger plan    Controlling the money that comes from Cannabis it won't happen until theres a new Governor Billy Bong and we must stop him 

 

But can we ?

[t-pain]

i'm not trying to make fun of robin, i'd like to learn things too.

 

like how did prarie plant companion get their bill in and passed within a few days?

did they set up kickbacks to senators? maybe npra could do that?

 

660 is such a piece of crap law. kind of reminds me of the 1980's michigan medical marijuana law that never went anywhere.

[Natesilver]

how did prarie plant companion get their bill in and passed within a few days?

did they set up kickbacks to senators? maybe npra could do that?

 

Their lobbyist was the former senate majority leader...

[nsmn8r]

Is Matt Ables amendment online somewhere?

[bobandtorey]

i'm not trying to make fun of robin, i'd like to learn things too.

 

like how did prarie plant companion get their bill in and passed within a few days?

did they set up kickbacks to senators? maybe npra could do that?

 

660 is such a piece of crap law. kind of reminds me of the 1980's michigan medical marijuana law that never went anywhere.

 

 

She told us on PGT that they all went to  prarie plant in Canada to have a look around and i think all of the NPRA members thought it was going to pass 

 

I didn't because i believe if it would have Cannabis would be legal for medical reasons and all i see is more court dates for me too go to 

[phaquetoo]

Mal, you and Zap are losing me.  It seems you're talking about something "private" and hint around but never really say what it is. Ex. "medical is an issue all to itself".  What is the other issue?  I feel like I'm in the dark sometimes...  Look, I really applaud what you guys are doing.  It just feels like something is being held back.  That you're not giving us all the information.  Am I just paranoid (no, I'm not under the influence :-) or what?

 

Speaking for myself, I'm pretty bummed about what happened the last couple of days so I'm ranting a bit, but please don't keep us in the dark.  I want to help, but to do so, I need to know the bigger picture. The last thing I want to do is jump on a bandwagon that is doomed for failure.

 

How about a thread sea

well for one thing minorml does not care about mm they only care about it being legal for all, and there are now a few splinter groups that beileive the same as norml!  so we dont have a partner in them, we are sick people who want a good mm law that will keep pt's and  c.g's out of jail, if they follow the law!

 

I cant say it any clearer than that!

 

Peace

[bobandtorey]

Here it is:

 

PK CSM Constitutional Amendment 0419.pdf

so as long as you are not in Jail and are 21 or over you'll go too go 

[bobandtorey]

well for one thing minorml does not care about mm they only care about it being legal for all, and there are now a few splinter groups that beileive the same as norml!  so we dont have a partner in them, we are sick people who want a good mm law that will keep pt's and  c.g's out of jail, 

 

well for one thing minorml does not care about mm they only care about it being legal for all, and there are now a few splinter groups that beileive the same as norml!  so we dont have a partner in them, we are sick people who want a good mm law that will keep pt's and  c.g's out of jail, if they follow the law!

 

I cant say it any clearer than that!

 

Peace

 

Thanks Jim

 

if they follow the law 

you must mean if they live in a city or town that will also follow the Law ?

 

 

I cant say it any clearer than that!

 

Peace

 

 

Thanks Jim 

[medmanmike]

well for one thing minorml does not care about mm they only care about it being legal for all, and there are now a few splinter groups that beileive the same as norml!  so we dont have a partner in them, we are sick people who want a good mm law that will keep pt's and  c.g's out of jail, if they follow the law!

 

I cant say it any clearer than that!

 

Peace

phaq, this makes perfect sense to me. As much as I believe it should be legal, first and foremost I want/need access for medical reason like you and many others.

 

There seem to be so many groups advocating in the State for MJ that have agendas, which may not be in our (the medical needs comm) best interest. Trying to find one or two to hang my hat on is confusing/frustrating to say the least.

 

Like many others I want to work to improve access AND safeguard PTs and CGs from harassment by LEO.

[Indigro]

Wanted to thank zap & mal... several of ur posts in the last few pages have helped w perspective.

...

 

Is it fair to think that we will likely not be able to get a disp bill drafted and passed in the next few years? Or at least not one that isn't heavily influenced by the police unions/conservative positions? A 'bad' draft in other words.

 

Which would leave the next best option of running a ballot measure, that would likely cost 750k, plus the equal matching? And that would have to maintain control of the language & include specific language toward decriminalization to really offer protections protections for people?

 

Is that the bottom line skinny on where we are at?

 

I have more if/then questions, but just to kind of summarize the situation...

[+Malamute]

In a general fashion,  yes.  Empasis towards "Or at least.."

 

Buta ya, never for sure,... just probabilities and likelihoods with a few definitives.

[bobandtorey]

 

Wanted to thank zap & mal... several of ur posts in the last few pages have helped w perspective.

...

 

Is it fair to think that we will likely not be able to get a disp bill drafted and passed in the next few years? Or at least not one that isn't heavily influenced by the police unions/conservative positions? A 'bad' draft in other words.

 

Which would leave the next best option of running a ballot measure, that would likely cost 750k, plus the equal matching? And that would have to maintain control of the language & include specific language toward decriminalization to really offer protections protections for people?

 

 

 

 

 

Is that the bottom line skinny on where we are at?

 

I have more if/then questions, but just to kind of summarize the situation...[/quote

 

Decriminalization or decriminalisation is the abolition of criminal penalties in relation to certain acts, perhaps retroactively, though perhaps regulated permits or fines might still apply (for contrast, see: legalization).

[t-pain]

indigro, before any ballot initiatives are started, there will be public polling (usually via calling) done of 'possible voters' to find out if it will pass or fail.

 

its been done in all other states, including floridas' medical marijuana question.

[bobandtorey]

indigro, before any ballot initiatives are started, there will be public polling (usually via calling) done of 'possible voters' to find out if it will pass or fail.

 

its been done in all other states, including floridas' medical marijuana question.

Yes there is a new poll coming out in Jan 2015 

[+greaterclare]

Has anyone in your club been arrested? If not, it is enough, as long as they are getting or growing their medicine.

Actually we get many who come AFTER their arrest. Seems I am a nice free person to get guidance from (but not legal advice, of course). Hopefully my meetings are keeping people out of trouble, though some will go with wishful thinking no matter what the laws are.

[trichcycler]

do you see a workable solution with this letter in mind? I sense a "model" that's familiar may be up for discussion, with that group?

[slipstar059]

It's basically saying patients can grow their own or adopt the system Canada has in play, no caregivers, only commercial growers licensed by the state.

 

Only difference is they're advocating personal growing rights of patients, where Canada said no. I wonder what their proposed qualifications for starting a commercial operation would be.

 

What about adopting washingtons medical laws, with open enrollment for licenses allowed from within the state. Washington was an affordable business model based on square footage.

 

Most likely Zap is right, but if you can't see it coming your not looking.

[Hayduke]

here is the police response to hb 4271 and hb 5104.

 

It seems they are being added to the table when negotiations begin again in 2015.

 

We are not done, it is just a new session...

12:18:14 police response_20141223_0001.pdf