Powdery Mildew In A Perpetual Grow

[Indigro]

Norby... it really revolves around ur proper use of the chem. If responsible, they can be very effective & safe, esp if applied properly for treatment. Getting true/100% coverage on a single app is one key factor, as even though many of these chems are considered 'systemic' that doesn't mean they translocate readily or easily. Another term to consider is translaminar...many of these chems only penetrate plant tissue to a minor degree, and fail to move around inside the plant through their vascular system. If you read into the product lit that the reps use to sell & train (esp w comparing competing products) you can discover that the chems havr limited ability to penetrate & move abouts, though they may be tagged as 'systemic' & a translaminar. Key to their most effective use is true & complete coverage/saturation w its application.

 

Related to this is the fact that most molds take refuge at the microscopic level & most plants (outside) have latent infection points though don't outwardly appear infected/diseased. In an mj garden, this is one manner in which mold persists despite the use of toxic chems. In other words, 3weeks after the treatment, it comes back. Likely, they never properly applied the chem & infection points persisted.

 

Where it becomes a problem ethically is that people will experience this and begin a dependence on chems every 2-3wks, which persists throughout the entire flower cycle. Combine improper applications w wild swings in environmental conditions = disease resurgence. If u apply properly, just the once, remove temp swings/high rh, and have otherwise healthy plants (not deficient, not fried)... then it is a one time treatment to break the disease cycle/dependence on chems.

 

This is the problem that large scalr commercial ops have... they dont apply properly & arent controlling the environment well enough (because it is difficult & expensive to do on scale). These characters are the ones that poison patients on a regular basis. True story that happens to this very day in colorads's massive commercial grows... they spray both fungicides & pesticides right up to that last 2wks of flower. Same w practically all of our commercial food crops. The cost to them otherwise would make them insolvent. They do this for a lack of undstanding in disease cycles, proper applications, and simple money. Its also cheaper to use chems regularly vs investing in large scale environmental controls.

 

If u usr it properly, just the once, you are not part of any problem. The real problem w these chems is commercial use... which is why I hate/despise/detest large scale grow models. Its just a money decision, not one grounded in ethics.

[trichcycler]

using on clones or vegging plants I would guess the dangers are in your own exposure.

[trichcycler]

I agree, great advice if you feel you must use chems in the garden.

[Norby]

I understand.  I've cleared it with all the patients and since I caught it so early, conola oiled the walls, painted, sprayed with neem immediately, K bicarb the next day and fixed the conditions etc. etc. that this step will be the final blow by making any plant that a rogue spore lands on a death trap.  I also worry about resistance which made it a no brainer to spray everything in veg. I've read of people who got rid of it completely with less so I feel confident that this will do it.

 

The wrong info that I got before gave me a much more negative view on eagle 20 than was deserved.  And I agree it's more the commercial scale and reliance that is the problem. 

[garyfisher]

In fact, the certification for using these treatments commercially has to do with application safety, not product/residual safety, as I have brought up before. The concern is exposure to the environment primarily, and to the applicator secondarily, not to the end product consumer. Follow the label instructions, and use the lowest concentrations listed.

This right here.

 

It is always best to minimize your exposure.  The main route of exposure is during application.  Like has been suggested, spray when they are clones and not in flower and there should be VERY little residue in harvested crop.  The rate is 2mL per gallon.  If you need some, PM me.

 

Consider the herbicide, Atrazine.  It is the most used herbicide in the US(90 million pounds per year) with major application in California (where your food comes from right now)  Precipitation forces the residual to run off into the water supply.  This compound has been proven to turn animals  into hermaphrodites including birds, mammals and amphibians.  It is also a endocrine disruptor (mimics hormones) and causes reproductive issues including cancers. 

 

Here is a talk from Dr. Tyrone hayes out of UC berkely. 

 

Dr. Hayes has been a target from big pharma for finding these abnormalities.  Atrazine is already banned in Europe.

Edited January 17, 2015 by garyfisher

[trichcycler]

this is exactly why the first legal cultivators in our state owe it to patients to eliminate/minimize the persistent use of these chems. Employing preventative measures in our medicinal gardens is the best start. Wouldn't it be nice if our craft was also appealing to the naturists of yesteryear and current while representing an alternative measure to pest/mold management. There are large segments of populations already that would not touch cannabis grown with any use of pesticides understandably so. The more these chems are offered as alternatives very simply loads the chamber of future gov controls over our blatant approach to untrained applications, indoor use, skewed safety beliefs, not to mention the fact we're talking about medicine here, for sick people. 

 

These issues can be prevented, anything less could be viewed as irresponsible by a pharma/law maker as illustrated in past news clips concerning our "pesticide problem" in cannabis.

 

peace out

[Norby]

I don't know if I had downy mildew or powdery mildew the first time.  I may have never had powdery mildew in over 25 years of growing.  I grew in a shed for 10 years and brushed a plant right outside my door that was infested with spider mites for 3 years till I realized that was what it was.  I got mites once the whole 10 years, even though they were everywhere and the shed was not bug proof by any means.  I neemed, set of a dr. doom 3 days later and neemed again on the 6th day and never saw them again and didn't remove the perennial that probably caused them. 

 

As bugs/mildew are in the garden long term, thru a mngmt. plan instead of eradication plan, the learn and adapt to all the sprays and things we do and use and become superbugs for our environments.  It's very important to eradicate so that we don't build bugs/diseases that are extremely adapted to our environments.  I think it's really hard to get pests on a garden other than by buying moldy buds and spreading the spores in your grow or mildewy bud or clones with bugs that have adapted.

[Norby]

I was talking about half assing an eradication plan.

 

My plan was to cut everything back to hardly anything.  Take down the tent and build a few walls and epoxy the floor so there were no dead air spots . k bicarb dunk the first week, neem 7 days later, milk spray 7 days later and  sulfur burn the 3rd week of flower.  I sprayed most surfaces(wood walls, any cracks where air flowed in, prefilters) with coconut oil as a friend gave me the idea for the cement floor so that any dust landing there would stay there as in a windy room.  Coconut is an antimicrobial with good anti fungal properties. So apply that to the walls and floor and add corn starch to the floor so it's not slippery and you have a natural fungicide layering on most surfaces.  Pre filters on carbon filters sprayed with coconut oil to trap and kill any spores.  Neem seed added to the soil since there are more antifungals in the pressed seed hulls which aren't in the neem seed oil to act as a systemic(I was a little worried this MAY affect taste or soil microfauna).  Adding Pro Tekt(silica) to the watering schedule. Adding the water UV sterilizer from my old house rigged into an air sterilizer. Add ionizer which breaks down spores and drops them out of the air?  I was thinking of that UVC sweeper idea too  There may have been a few I missed.

 

The first part yesterday, I started at 730am and laid down at 330 am to sleep to wake at 630am this morning to move plants back into new flowering room, got the eagle 20 this morning, sprayed this afternoon around 4ish and took a shower and took the rest of the day off.  Now it's about time for sulfur for the couple in the flower room. Cut down the last 2 that I was going to leave unsulfured and untreated to finish flower today.  That grapefruit badass smelled wonderful going into the burn barrel. Will have to put down a few more seeds from that tonite. I can sure get a lot done and work a long time for a sick person. 

 

  I don't like to mess around.  Keeping my fingers crossed.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Norby

[trichcycler]

Holy Smokes!!!

[Norby]

Being anxious naturally makes for trying to be perfect and having problems when it doesn't happen.

 

  My father used to take me out bowling once a week to teach me.  He'd have me line up on the 3rd arrow and spin the ball to hit the pocket between the 1 and 3 pin.  I was good and had numerous strikes but everytime I got a strike my father would criticize how I wasn't on the third arrow and pulled my arm at the last minute to compensate, so I wasn't doing it "right".  My fathers thing was consistent action for consistent return.  Mine was to adjust at the last minute to make sure things worked.  It ingrained a perfectionist attitude in an imperfect person.  If he would've lived till I was passed 18 maybe he would've corrected the personality flaw I have by accepting I'm really good at things.  Mostly because he turned something on and I haven't been able to turn it off.  I once got a 98 of 100 on a spelling test which was geared 2 grades above my level(highest score in the class) and I showed it to my dad(looking for approval) and he told me I got one wrong, bring it back when I get them all right.  My mom yelled at him because I got the highest grade and it was above my level and he still said I got one wrong, what do you want.  Which is why I have a real problem when someone tells me I'm wrong.  Which is also why I'm obsessive and did all that work in 20 hours strait on 3 granola bars, slept three hours and got up to work till midnite last nite.  Ahh my father created someone who can accomplish almost anything but has big problems with daily routine.  I think it was the military training or he had aspergers too.  His father died when he was 18 too and my father was in Viet Nam. My father and grandfather both died at age 45 when I and my father were both 18.  Guess how old I am?  Well at least I don't have an 18 Y.O. kid(that I know about), I think the anxiety would take me this year if it all lined up for a third generation.

 

  I'm feeling it today, complete exhaustion.  Moving very slow and don't even want to go down and water.  hopefully I'll eat better today.  Yesterday, leftovers from my wife and I's dinner thursday, mustve had butter in the taters.  Had to medicate heavily to get rid of the cramps and coughing crap up today.  I HATE having to watch what I eat.  It makes going out to dinner very unenjoyable when waitresses don't understand "NO BUTTER OR DAIRY, EVEN FRYING ON A GRILL WITH BUTTER ON IT!"  Diet is EXTREMELY important to get it right for some of us.  And she still got a 25% tip, sometimes I'm too nice because other times I know I can be such a dick. Wish I could be more consistent on that but confrontation is a problem for me till I blow up about something.  Oh soo many flaws.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Norby