Libertarians Rule, Ds And Rs Drool...

[Norby]

Resto, I've posted recent menus from dispensaries in Co.  I have never seen one 1/8th for $75 and most $30-50.  People in NYS are drooling to spend the same rate legal as illegal.  $30/1/8th is cheaper than it is in NY now.  Please let me know where you see $75/ 1/8th?

 

Not to mention, unless you are an alcoholic, $75 is cheap considering most people would make that last a week to a month.  If you kief it and make 12 caps, which is pretty strong(it's what I take 1 cap of every nite and I'd consider myself a heavy smoker) that's like 12 nights worth of drinks for $7.50 each buzz.  That's 3 drinks max at a bar.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Norby

[Restorium2]

Who can afford jail? Misdemeanor offenses? Felony offenses? Living in fear because society views you as a menace but applauds a NASCAR Racer in the Busch Beer or Jack Daniels car because don't nothing say drinking like driving REALLY FAST!!!!

 

If it is legal and they price it the way they are trying the black market will flourish better than it does today. You're too smart to think they can have the impact they pretend they can have. If they could the issue would have died in 1937.

They use legalization money to put people who can't afford it in jail. Not a good thing. Not a step forward. It's just a way to perpetuate what has been happening all along. It's a bait and switch. And it's a dead end. There's no going back after law enforcement gets a taste of the funding from sales. Game over unless you have a lot of money and can afford the dispensary prices. That's not legalization that has anything good in it for me or the people I know. 

[Restorium2]

Resto, I've posted recent menus from dispensaries in Co.  I have never seen one 1/8th for $75 and most $30-50.  People in NYS are drooling to spend the same rate legal as illegal.  $30/1/8th is cheaper than it is in NY now.  Please let me know where you see $75/ 1/8th?

 

Not to mention, unless you are an alcoholic, $75 is cheap considering most people would make that last a week to a month.  If you kief it and make 12 caps, which is pretty strong(it's what I take 1 cap of every nite and I'd consider myself a heavy smoker) that's like 12 nights worth of drinks for $7.50 each buzz.  That's 3 drinks max at a bar.

Most rec users I know use about a 1/4 a week or more. They can barely afford $50 a week. Alcoholic? 

[YesMichigan]

They use legalization money to put people who can't afford it in jail. Not a good thing. Not a step forward. It's just a way to perpetuate what has been happening all along. It's a bait and switch. And it's a dead end. There's no going back after law enforcement gets a taste of the funding from sales. Game over unless you have a lot of money and can afford the dispensary prices. That's not legalization that has anything good in it for me or the people I know. 

 

We depart here and it illustrates the difference between an Independent and a Democrat on this issue very well. 14 pages of "junk" by both of us just to get to this - worth it in the end for me and I thank you for seeing it through. Nothing but the best to you and I'm sure we'll have plenty of other topics to discuss down the road.

[GregS]

Who, and how many, libertarians hold public office in, say, the US Congress?

[YesMichigan]

Who, and how many, libertarians hold public office in, say, the US Congress?

 

Nationwide, there are 144 Libertarians holding elected offices: 52 partisan offices, and 92 nonpartisan offices. If you know of an elected Libertarian who is not on this list, please notify us at info@lp.org.

 

I won't link it because I don't want to violate anything by appearing to promote a party. US Congress, none. Governorships, none. I don't attribute this to quality of message but rather to low-information voters who don't know there could be another way. It's akin to the dead people who keep getting re-elected because of name recognition. That's my take at least.

 

I am on record in this thread as saying I'm NOT a Libertarian but the admin already called me an "apologist" for them because I commented on appreciating Rand Paul's (a Republican) State's Rights approach.

 

Michigan Libertarians

Andy LeCureaux

Hazel Park City Council, Michigan

Bruce S. Gosling

Glen Oaks Community College Board of Trustees, Michigan

Erwin Haas

Kentwood City Commissioner Ward 2, Michigan

Rosanne Crowley Koss

Southfield Township Trustee, Michigan

Edited January 22, 2015 by YesMichigan

[GregS]

Okay. Now I get it. Your agenda is plain. Other party followers are eager to post their preferences too. It is not disallowed.

 

I hope.

Edited January 22, 2015 by GregS

[YesMichigan]

Okay. Now I get it. Your agenda is plain. Other party followers are eager to post their preferences too. It is not disallowed.

 

I hope.

 

What is my agenda as you see it, please?

 

I'm not eager to post anything as I have no party. If the Libertarian stands for what I do they get my vote. If the Democrat does they get my vote. If the Republican does they get my vote.

 

I figured you asked a legitimate question you wanted the answer to.

[GregS]

What is my agenda as you see it, please?

 

I'm not eager to post anything as I have no party. If the Libertarian stands for what I do they get my vote. If the Democrat does they get my vote. If the Republican does they get my vote.

 

I figured you asked a legitimate question you wanted the answer to.

Just carry on.

[YesMichigan]

Just carry on.

 

So you had no point or clue regarding my agenda just wanted to do a "I know but I'm not telling" thing.

 

I'll carry on or not as I see fit - but your permission is noted.

[Wild Bill]

Anyone else think the tea party is a just a smear campaign by the Koch Brothers, to draw votes away from the Lib party?

 

I think the Tea Party is an attempt to keep the small minded and unintelligent voting Republican. It was presented by the Koch brothers as a grass roots movement when in reality it was just a re-labeling of the Christian conservatives. Smoke and mirrors to give the appearance of believing in liberty.

 

 

(BTW) They've been whining about Obamacare all this time. Now that they're in a majority do you think they'll change anything? I bet they don't.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Wild Bill

[YesMichigan]

I think the Tea Party is an attempt to keep the small minded and unintelligent voting Republican. It was presented by the Koch brothers as a grass roots movement when in reality it was just a re-labeling of the Christian conservatives. Smoke and mirrors to give the appearance of believing in liberty.

 

I did know some core "grassroots" members at its inception, they were Independents who thought they could join the Republicans and be part of the system. I advised against it with some success. People will do just about anything to keep money in their pocket. They'll advocate for policies they might not agree with for the personal cost savings.

 

I think you're right on with Koch Bros. Inc. though. A segment of the Republicans (Far right and fiscal republican moderates) thought the Party was becoming centrist and losing form. The Tea Party was a perfect distraction to keep them from defecting though they really never had anywhere to go. It failed as Obama still carried the day because Republicans say and want to do so many terrible things.

[Norby]

http://reason.com/blog/2015/01/20/libertarian-party-on-obamas-state-of-the

 

Libertarians don't think Obama is doing enough to end the war on drugs.

[slipstar059]

On a related/unrelated topic, did anyone see Snyder advocating for people to go to trade schools, vs colleges?  Step one, get rid of the unions.  Step two, find Chinese Investors.  Step three, bring down environmental regulations, that protect the environment, but make it hard for Michigan to compete with Chinese factories.  Step 3, get rid of education, and move toward filling positions. Step 4, move towards a presidential position, and take this philosophy to the US. 

 

Does anyone here work in a factory that was recently purchased by Chinese owners?  I don't have a problem with Asian people, and I have a lot of friends living in Japan, but China's working conditions are insane, and I'd hate to see their work ethics come to the U.S. 

 

I know two people, who's company has been purchased by Chinese investors, and they can see their factories slowly moving into mass production, with tighter regulations.  A large group of workers have already started leaving.

 

Another question, more on topic.  If Obama did legalize, wouldn't we be open to import from every country in the world that had also legalized?  Isn't his lack of legalization, the only thing that's stopping that?  His administration tried replacement crops, for the poppy fields in Afghanistan, if the Afghan farmers grew Cannabis, the Heroin problem, could be tamed, right? I wonder what the current policy on tobacco and alcohol is?

[Restorium2]

Does anyone here work in a factory that was recently purchased by Chinese owners?

 

The conditions are the same before and after the change from GM to Chinese. Still bad to work for and workers have less rights all the time. Same, same. They get away with everything they can just like American owners. 

[YesMichigan]

On a related/unrelated topic, did anyone see Snyder advocating for people to go to trade schools, vs colleges?  Step one, get rid of the unions.  Step two, find Chinese Investors.  Step three, bring down environmental regulations, that protect the environment, but make it hard for Michigan to compete with Chinese factories.  Step 3, get rid of education, and move toward filling positions. Step 4, move towards a presidential position, and take this philosophy to the US. 

 

Does anyone here work in a factory that was recently purchased by Chinese owners?  I don't have a problem with Asian people, and I have a lot of friends living in Japan, but China's working conditions are insane, and I'd hate to see their work ethics come to the U.S. 

 

I know two people, who's company has been purchased by Chinese investors, and they can see their factories slowly moving into mass production, with tighter regulations.  A large group of workers have already started leaving.

 

Another question, more on topic.  If Obama did legalize, wouldn't we be open to import from every country in the world that had also legalized?  Isn't his lack of legalization, the only thing that's stopping that?  His administration tried replacement crops, for the poppy fields in Afghanistan, if the Afghan farmers grew Cannabis, the Heroin problem, could be tamed, right? I wonder what the current policy on tobacco and alcohol is?

 

A large part of your intro for sure is covered when the protesters converge on a G8 (G7 these days) convention. Make .30 a day laborers in Vietnam fight it out with .25 per day Malaysians then tell the American worker "You guys cost too much, now buy these $200 shoes we made for $1.50 and paid LeBron James 80 million dollars to endorse." How about the nets they set up at the FoxConn factories (Iphone) to catch the workers trying to commit suicide? Not getting out that easily! Apple needs phones!!!

 

http://www.cnet.com/news/riots-suicides-and-other-issues-in-foxconns-iphone-factories/

 

I'm not sure what you're asking - is Domestic US Marijuana being protected FROM outside competition by Obama because he keeps it illegal? I would say you can't protect an illegal industry from foreign competition, Mexico was outproducing the US (for US consumption) until states started allowing medical marijuana and now recreational. I'm just one idiot but I think there would be less Mexican weed and likely more from exotic ports of call like Afghanistan. Like Tequila (GOOD Tequila).

Edited January 22, 2015 by YesMichigan

[YesMichigan]

Just in case someone reads this post at a later date. I, the original poster had named it "Democrats hate you too..." It was changed by administration of this forum though it broke no specific rule it was apparently altered in the name of "general moderation".

 

I did not create the title to this thread and I do not think Libertarians rule. The current title was not of my choosing - Administration has altered what I typed to make it appear as if I typed it. I did not.

 

I am an Independent and will vote for the people who most closely resemble my Principles. I make this clarification in light of the argument style of at least one Administrator and see now the changing of my words is systemic and not a one-time occurrence.

 

Be safe.

[Wild Bill]

Just so we have equal time;

 

The Kind of Anarchism I Believe in, and What's Wrong with Libertarians

Noam Chomsky interviewed by Michael S. Wilson

Alternet, May 28, 2013

 

Wilson: With the apparent ongoing demise of the capitalist state, many people are looking at other ways to be successful, to run their lives, and I'm wondering what you would say anarchy and syndicalism have to offer, things that others ideas -- say, for example, state-run socialism -- have failed to offer? Why should we choose anarchy, as opposed to, say, libertarianism?

 

Chomsky: Well what's called libertarian in the United States, which is a special U. S. phenomenon, it doesn't really exist anywhere else -- a little bit in England -- permits a very high level of authority and domination but in the hands of private power: so private power should be unleashed to do whatever it likes. The assumption is that by some kind of magic, concentrated private power will lead to a more free and just society. Actually that has been believed in the past. Adam Smith for example, one of his main arguments for markets was the claim that under conditions of perfect liberty, markets would lead to perfect equality. Well, we don't have to talk about that! That kind of --

 

Wilson: It seems to be a continuing contention today ...

 

Chomsky: Yes, and so well that kind of libertarianism, in my view, in the current world, is just a call for some of the worst kinds of tyranny, namely unaccountable private tyranny. Anarchism is quite different from that. It calls for an elimination to tyranny, all kinds of tyranny. Including the kind of tyranny that's internal to private power concentrations. So why should we prefer it? Well I think because freedom is better than subordination. It's better to be free than to be a slave. Its' better to be able to make your own decisions than to have someone else make decisions and force you to observe them. I mean, I don't think you really need an argument for that. It seems like ... transparent.

 

[cristinew]

. I, the original poster had named it "Democrats hate you too...",,,   so this  topic must of been started by a republican, and changed by a Democrat,  lol.

[+Malamute]

Well, in the first post it states we need "L" ibertarians instead of rep/dem.

 

:-)

[cristinew]

We need  education,

[YesMichigan]

. I, the original poster had named it "Democrats hate you too...",,,   so this  topic must of been started by a republican, and changed by a Democrat,  lol.

 

Ahhh, you miss the purpose of the "too"...I put that in there on purpose...If that wasn't enough I clearly stated Republicans are not an ally as a party. I anticipated a myopic view of it, I will admit.

 

I proposed Libertarian (as I said) only because they are further along as a third option than any other. I'd be for the ostrich party if they were a party of "good" instead of just a known "lesser evil".

[Kspot]

True Ex:When I was young and didnt know what pot was, and saw the drug prevension commercials made me wonder.Then once I found out the truth, made me think about what others/elts I was miss led on..Personally after that had to find out for myself. Which I think if I was well informed, better educated about the facts I would have made better choices later on in regards to drugs.Talk to your kids before

They" do and WILL.

[GregS]

 

Just so we have equal time;

 

The Kind of Anarchism I Believe in, and What's Wrong with Libertarians

Noam Chomsky interviewed by Michael S. Wilson

Alternet, May 28, 2013

 

 

Chomsky comes out in favor of syndicalism, which means that the means of production is in the hands of workers in a given business. Some have arisen, employees have bought companies, and used committee means to manage themselves and turn a profit. It is a libertarian model.

 

[cristinew]

I am curious, where do you stand on the second amendment? The Republicans get sympathy because they are seen as the party that supports the second amendment.    AHHHHHHHHHHHH your missing the point,  Republican led  felony  drug laws and dissarmend more Americans than any  democratic led law  by far,  Now  ask your  republican  Representative to restore gun rights  and see how far they run,,